Deputy Chair, I think I must just confess and say that it's quite interesting to participate in the debate, but being the last speaker in such an interesting debate is quite disempowering, because of the whole range of things that then get said in the process. It is for that reason, Deputy Chair and Chair of the Council, that I wish to put this speech of mine aside for a second. I think we need to deal with distortions, and correct things that are not said correctly.
I do not know where the hon Sinclair was when we undertook a vigorous programme of oversight, starting for instance with KwaZulu-Natal. I do not know whether he was part of the NCOP but hiding somewhere, because committees went back to KwaZulu-Natal, and made follow-ups. Therefore, to come, sit here and participate in such an important debate and begin to create an impression that we are grandstanding in front of the poor people and the working class, I think, shows you are not taking this House very seriously. So, it is very important that we correct that.
We went to the North West, making follow-ups, because if we leave these things unattended, they may end up in the files of the NCOP recorded as correct statements. We went back to the North West. I do not know where hon Sinclair was, whether he was in Taung where we did those follow-up visits, when we went back to our communities to check whether the commitments that were made by the departments, the Ministers, the MECs, and local municipalities happened.
I remember again, hon Sinclair, I think he was still a member of the ANC, when we went back to his own province, and that is the Northern Cape, when in actual fact that programme was a follow-up when we met with the people of the Northern Cape and looked at the report on issues that were taken up by the MEC, the Ministers and the municipalities. So, I think it is a distortion to be participating in this debate and begin to create an impression that we grandstand.
Again, why do we have to distort history? You want to lecture us on democracy, and quote one of the worst imperialists that this world has ever produced - Winston Churchill? What did he do for the world? What did he do to the poor of the world? The reason why he led the Allied forces against the fascism as advanced by Germany was in actual fact to protect the interests of the imperialists. That was the reason. He never did it in the best interests of the development of Africa. He didn't do that, and that is why even after the Second World War Africa did not benefit after that particular process under whose leadership the very same Winston Churchill, we are told, taught us about democracy. That is a distortion of history in itself.
I think it would not be fair to continue in the manner in which we are now. Yes, the ANC had said the people shall govern. We said that we would go out and educate our people about the kind of democracy that we want. Even when we took over power in 1994 we said ours is a constitutional democracy, and explained what shall define it. We even included in our Constitution that the President of the Republic shall only serve two terms. Now, how do you compare us with Egypt? How do you compare the President of South Africa with Hosni Mubarak? Where do you draw those conclusions? I think that is absolutely incorrect.
As I was listening to hon Sinclair at some point I got lost because he sounded like a real Marxist-Leninist, because he was beginning to lecture us around dialectal materialism, especially on the principle of quantity and quality. I was beginning to think, "Wow, did hon Sinclair join the SACP?" only to find out at the end that he was using that principle opportunistically to advance a particular ideological posture, and I do not think it is correct to agree with him on that particular matter.
There is no way that our democracy shall allow or degenerate to the point Egypt and Tunisia degenerated to. Our President has been very consistent throughout to say that our democracy shall allow people to demonstrate when they are not happy, and in actual fact he encouraged them to do so, but with responsibility. Do not destroy public property.
You have got the right - it is there in the Bill of Rights of South Africa and so forth. So, I really do not know where the hon Sinclair was.
Hon Abrahams, I would agree with you and take the point - you know these long holidays make us forget people's names - that the hon Watson said it was your maiden speech. I agree, but it is also important for us to check our history before we come to particular conclusions. If you had studied the history of Phuthaditjhaba or that particular area that we went to as the NCOP ... because it has always been a principle of the NCOP that when we go to provinces, we go to the poorest and the most disadvantaged areas, because that is where we think we can make an impact. That is exactly why we went to that particular area. For your information, history will teach that in actual fact, that area was neglected for many years as a self- governing territory. That is why we took over and removed those indunas and the so-called self-declared leaders and all that, because all they would do is to build stadiums, and ensure that they are bringing their people to those stadiums, and not address the fundamental socioeconomic conditions that our people are faced with. So, I just thought that it is important that we shouldn't lose sight of that particular history.
I think we have done very well, as the NCOP, in going out and ensuring that our people participate in all the activities and the life of the NCOP. It is for us now to further strengthen the kind of work that we have already done. There is a commitment that we have made. Yes, of course we went to the Free State; we listened to the people, and we will be going back. Committees will go back to the Free State to ensure that the commitments that were made are implemented by the provincial legislature of the Free State.
There is a very interesting issue, which I think needs to be treated as a matter of urgency. In one of the engagements we picked up that this piece of legislation that deals with the cross-border transportation and so forth is in actual fact disadvantaging the poor taxi operators between the border of Lesotho and the Free State. I am raising this in this debate so that it becomes a matter that we need to really make a follow-up on, and ensure that those people are really being taken care of and so forth. In conclusion, Chairperson, I can see your eyes are telling me something, let us just agree that at times anything that is untested is not a fact. Whether you have an affidavit or not, if it is not tested then it is not a fact. It will always be rumour there in the media, and we will treat it like that. For as long as it has not been tested in a court of law where the very same person who wrote that affidavit will stand up and say, "Yes, it is true; I agree with the contents of what I have signed for", it will remain a rumour. Therefore, Parliament cannot be used as a platform wherein rumour-mongering will be allowed. We can't do that. For that matter, we even proudly say it is in Hansard, but it is just a rumour. Thank you very much for the opportunity. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Question put: That the Report be adopted.
IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.
Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of Constitution.