It is actually a new question, but I will respond to it. Deputy Chair, ultimately you have to take the approach that allows for consensual decision-making. I don't think that matters are that fixed and firm ever, and in the short period that I have been a member of Cabinet, I don't know that we've ever had to vote on a decision.
There is a point of consensus and decision-making. One of the issues articulated in our Green Paper, and certainly dealt with by the National Planning Commission since, is that if you want the National Planning Commission to function properly, then it needs to be beyond the time range of decisions that the executive takes.
Let me cite an example. Minister Shiceka and I would be working along with the Minister of Rural Development and Land Reform, the Minister of Water and Environmental Affairs, and the Minister of Human Settlements in a process to try to deal with spatial planning. Space is one of the issues that still have a large overhang from apartheid. The poor, primarily black people, live far from their places of work. This still continues. You need only look at the interrelationship between places along Moloto road - kwaMhlanga and others - and Pretoria, and the amount of time that people spend travelling. In dealing with the issue, it is incumbent upon the National Planning Commission to understand that we have to look at the longer term and set a series of normative conditions for that. Minister Shiceka, in working with the two provinces under local authorities, which would be Gauteng and Mpumalanga, would need to deal with some of the spatial planning norms that are immediate.
In understanding those relationships, it is also important that we are able to work through this, so that in the long-term interests of the country we are able to communicate collegially that a lock-in of a bad decision would have consequences. That's how we have to work through it. It is taking Chapter 3 of the Constitution, which is about co-operative governance and premised largely on the interrelationship between the spheres of government, but understanding that collegially we also have a responsibility towards each other.
This arises in a myriad of areas. If the Minister of Public Enterprises was heavily involved in coal fire power as the only option into the future, it would certainly have an impact on the international commitments we have made on climate change. We are looking at these issues and collegially have to be able to deal with them, so that the trade-offs are understood in the decisions in the short term.
Our interests are these. Because we are not involved in executive decisions, executive functions of government normally defined, we are out there ahead of the curve, if you wish. We have a responsibility to work collegially and mostly behind the scenes so that we can all take these decisions together. Thank you.
Number of employees dismissed and allowed to re-enter municipal employment 62. Mr K A Sinclair (Cope) asked the Minister for Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs:
Whether any statistics are available on the number of employees who were dismissed and allowed to re-enter municipal employment; if not, why not; if so, (a) from which municipalities were these employees dismissed and (b) what disciplinary action has been taken against these employees? CO384E