You see, he's not listening, because what I said was that instead of their saying, "This is what we are doing to advance the programmes of the National Youth Development Agency", they had instead their own separate programmes, which seek to negate or compete with what the country wants to do. That is also quite hypocritical. I think we need to speak against that as the ANC or as this particular House.
Hon Sinclair, I think you are also being disingenuous. When we deal with the philosophy of Verwoerd, of course I would agree with you that we cannot unlink the philosophy of Verwoerd from colonialism, but you must understand what I was trying to say earlier. I was characterising South Africa as conceptualised by Verwoerd in developing this kind of a state.
Not only was it about not teaching young people maths and science but it was about segregation and the establishment of Bantustans. I did not want to go there. [Applause.] It was also about putting the Africans in particular - I'll repeat it: it was about putting the Africans in particular - and blacks in general, who comprised Indians and coloureds, on the periphery of the economy through the homelands system. [Applause.] That was Verwoerd.
The theme itself refers to dismantling apartheid social relations. They are not even considering the theme in the debate today, because they don't know what it is that we are trying to deal with. We are trying to undo what the ANC in 1969 characterised as "colonialism of a special time". Through that we said: Yes, of course, the coloniser is not directly involved. The coloniser has left the territory. But within that boundary there is a minority that sees itself as superior to the majority and therefore disenfranchises them, oppresses them, unlinks them from the mainstream of the economy and so forth. Their lot was to be the suppliers of labour to the benefit of key industries, particularly the mines. [Interjections.]
That is exactly what we have been saying here. We need to understand the debate within that context, because, "through the colonialism of a special time", the social relations in South Africa were constructed. The debate was seeking to respond to how we undo that and move forward as a country. How do we undo that and move forward as a country - I didn't hear what you were saying about this as an hon member.
Of course, I am not surprised that the hon member decided to be so disingenuous without going into much history. Even his own professor - you would know him very well - Prof Andre Duvenhage, from the University of the North West, agreed with what the hon Mncube was saying in terms of the issue of Cope's policies - that there are no policies. His own professor! So I wonder if you are going to pass the thesis or the mini thesis if you submit it and speak like that. I see you failing.
Briefly, I think what we are trying to do here or what we are trying to address here as the NCOP is: How do we deal with this intergenerational, abject poverty that the young people of South Africa attract? How do we dislodge this intergenerational, abject poverty? It is a chain, and we need to find a way to break this particular chain.
In my presentation I avoided being ideological, although the DA tried to push a particular ideological economic front as a way of solving the problems of the young people of South Africa. This is because we are sitting with the problem of liberalism today. The problems that we are having today are the other problems of liberalism.
It is in that context that the President said: Yes, we have pronounced on this particular issue, but there are other views that are being projected out there, such as the issue of the two-tier labour system - whether labour brokerage won't create a two-tier labour system and all sorts of things. There is a sense of discomfort, and the President said that it was our responsibility, as the leadership, that if a section of the population was not happy about any pronouncement, we needed to listen and engage with that particular section. And that is exactly what the President said. He's saying, let's listen to ...