Hon Chairperson, let me start by acknowledging all the comments made by hon members in this debate and indeed express my appreciation for the support indicated. It is the support that we always get, even in our discussions at portfolio committee level. We also acknowledge the comments made by the committee chairperson in relation to the need for monitoring of projects in and at the National Development Agency, NDA. Other hon members raised this matter as well. We will certainly improve in this regard.
I also note the issue raised about a very important aspect of our work, one which concerns all of us, regarding the disintegration of families, which leads to some of the social ills we are seeing in our country now. We will have to work together in this regard because indeed there are programmes in the department that we are implementing, as alluded to by the hon Deputy Minister, to deal with those challenges.
I also want to acknowledge that indeed we still do not have enough and adequate victim empowerment centres or homes for the aged. I am sure that all of us understand why this is happening, as we had discussions at committee level. We have begun bringing into operation both the Children's Act and the Older Persons Act. We are at the beginning of implementation and obviously we have to increase resources and ensure that we really build on what we have started.
I note that hon members are making comments understanding that the implementation of these two Acts only started on 1 April, which is a few weeks ago. But allocations of resources will be made in this regard.
We would like to deal with the issue of appeals. It is important to understand that it is not necessary in all of the cases that we received appeals on for the South African Social Security Agency, Sassa, to agree. Many of the appeal cases against Sassa relate to people who are unhappy with the fact that their applications have been turned down.
Therefore, the number that you see does not quite reflect that all these people are not being assisted. It is a fact that in some cases, even though we had laws in place that said appeal again, again and again, you would not end up with a situation where you say, yes, this application is granted - for various reasons, of course.
But where appeals are made and they are actually genuine appeals, where we indeed agree that there are problems, as we have stated in the budget speech earlier on, those appeals are granted and we pay those recipients. It is for that reason that we have established this appeal tribunal. We funded it to the tune of R171 million, to deal with the backlog that we see so that we can come on par, as South Africans, and put it behind us once and for all. We hope that in future there will be a natural and normal appeals situation, not on the scale at which appeals are right now.
With regard to the approval of the applications, we remain committed to improving service delivery in that regard. This ANC-led government has taken pains in bringing into the database the many, many people who were left behind with regard to the pension payments. Hon members said so earlier on. Therefore we can't look away when registration is not happening on time. It is for that reason that we will always be obliged to this aspect of the Act.
It says that all of us should actually respond positively or otherwise to an application within 90 days of that application being made. If an appeal is also made, it has to be responded to within 90 days. We are saying we want to improve on that service delivery aspect by making it one day. The Act says 90 days but we want to make it one day. By the way, we are currently on the 21 days turnaround time. We want to get to one day.
I have personally seen the Improved Grants Administration Process, Igap, in action in the Free State province. Members and ordinary citizens arrived there because that's where we are implementing this Igap turnaround programme. They'll leave an office where they've submitted an application with a letter of approval already. It is happening in the Free State as I'm speaking. This is what we are saying will have to be replicated in all the other provinces throughout the country.
Sassa, in partnership with the Department of Home Affairs, has embarked on data quality management clearing. Hon members have actually raised the issue of the integration and interdepartmental collation that's required. The hon Minister of the Department of Home Affairs is here with us and I want to put on record that we work hand in hand with that department on a daily basis. We are doing the data clearing together and are even together on a daily basis on every outreach programme. [Applause.]
The fact that we can do these registrations online and people come out with a letter of approval immediately is not because there could be fraud. It's because our systems are linked. Home Affairs can say, through their system, "yes, Social Development, it is okay, you can give that person a grant". We would have checked because the systems are linked.
We will also deal with the issue of the Children's Act. The hon Kopane may perhaps not have read this Act properly. It suggests that the Children's Act makes provision for the registration to be fully operational within 18 months after the commencement date of the Act, which is 1 April this year, as we said. Now that the Act is under implementation, I said the Act says 18 months, as written and agreed to by us South Africans. We'll now have to draw up an electronic system and make it operational before the end of the allocated period. It is not because we are negligent, or Sassa or whoever is not doing this, or we don't care. It is because we are required to act within those timelines and, indeed, that's what we are doing.
Hon members have raised the issue of dependency on many occasions. Dependency on social grants comes up time and again. I have stated, as I did today, that there is really no scientific evidence to prove that such a dependency syndrome exists, or that people have babies deliberately. The hon member, my predecessor, also stated that in the past. We are becoming anecdotal. These anecdotes do not change overnight into evidence, nor does an ideological perspective that fails to acknowledge that poverty is systemic and that no poor person chooses to be poor.
We have said before that, based on the very thorough, evidence-based research that we've done, there are indeed positive aspects to social grants - the hon committee chairperson referred to these in her speech. As I indicated earlier on, positive aspects include better nutrition, kids going to school - you name them. People who are given grants are able to stand up and do something.
However, we take note that there is a need for activation strategies. Today, in this august House, we referred to this matter of urgent need, which we have started on. We referred to the Hemp and the Vondeling projects. These are activation strategies that bring about change in our societies and communities, which all of us must actually embark on. We are not shying away. We are saying, yes, let's give grants - but there's also a need to do something about the aspect of self-activation.
Hon Lamoela, we agree that the concerns you raised are genuine ones and we need to look at them. However, you will recall that in the meeting of the portfolio committee, particularly the Standing Committee on Public Accounts, Scopa, we dealt exhaustively with the issues you have raised. It may well be necessary to go through your notes again when you leave this House. Needless to say, we will act on the issues raised in the Scopa meeting and here today by you. I also raised them in the Attorney-General's report.
Regarding the issue of the payment of contractors, yes, we have said here today and we are on record as saying that there is a challenge. I'm saying again that this payment model is not sustainable and we will definitely do something about it. We will not shy away from dealing with it, as I have said. We hope we will have all the hon members' support in that regard.
Finally, as I conclude, I also want to deal with the issue of fraud, as raised by the hon members. Thank you for your support of the fact that we are dealing with fraud, as we are indeed doing. Yes, there is a whole list of people who were found to be defrauding the system.
But we said, as South Africans, that the list was so long at this time that we rather needed to make people pay. People are in fact busy paying back now, which is indicative of the fact that there is punishment because money is already being repaid. Those who are not willing to pay will obviously go to jail. It is either/or, not both, at this time. We have named and shamed; those people are known. We may not have gone to the media with that list, but it exists. We must also remember that there is a problematic aspect, which we acknowledge, namely that our own systems still have problems. There are people whose economic conditions have changed, yet they remain on the list. They were not defrauding the state, but they were there on the list. They came to us voluntarily and those are some of the people that we are removing right now.
We will deal with fraud and corruption unhindered and unashamedly. Again, we hope that we will have your support in this regard. We are delighted by your support today of this Budget Vote. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.