The member on that side ... [Laughter.] It is the issue of where we draw the line between policy formulation, which, if you were to read the Constitution, at any time is the prerogative of the executive in all areas of government. And if you go and look at schedule 4 of the Constitution, you will find communications there. It is something that has to be regulated by government. The problem, I think - and many people have raised it in various ways - is that, clearly, in the last 15 years - and it is the view on this side of the House - is where that line has been drawn.
In some of these institutions we've created ... again, the hon member is correct in saying that most of the services which have to be provided in the communications area are provided by people, organisations or institutions other than government. The provider is not the department, but either the Independent Communications Authority of South Africa or the SABC, or Sentech, etc. The problem is that if you do not have policy formulation, as the Constitution asks us within the preserve of government, and you have the implementation of that policy as an independent structure, whether it's the board of Sentech, Icasa, and so on, you will run into problems such as the ones we've experienced recently.
Of course, there are many reasons for the problems we've experienced. Some of them stem from personal fights among people, and some from a whole lot of other causes. However, if you go and look at the real problem, a structural problem exists in the way in which we envisage these relationships. You cannot work in a whole area of government, which is communications, and not give government a central role in the policy formulation. Then those structures have to independently - in terms of the precepts of "independence", as we understand it - implement those policies.
The effect would be that we would absolutely have given the power to four or five individuals in this institution to make policy on behalf of the whole South Africa. That would be the effect. If government didn't set those policy parameters and guidelines, then a few individuals would be making policy on our behalf, and they are not public representatives. They are members of a board. The Minister has reiterated in his speech that he is busy looking at policy, but this is one of the fundamental issues that we have to address: the relationship between government - and by government I mean both Parliament and the executive - and those institutions.
So, this is a vital area, and I think the interconnection fee showed us how many problems there are in this regard. On the one hand, it showed us the incredible weaknesses in Icasa, who basically just did not have the backbone, or did not want to, actually tackle the industry. We said that to them. All of us said that to them. It was very good that in the past year of our interaction with Icasa, they have really turned the ship around. I think it is really great. When we dealt with the Budget Vote, we did not see the same Icasa that we saw a year or a year and a half ago. Icasa actually started looking at all the things it had to do, putting plans to it, and now we can all interact with it. But the policy parameters are still spelled out by Icasa; they are not spelled out by government. This is the huge problem we have, and that is one area we need to look at carefully.
I heard a lot of good things about the cellular industry. I agree with the Minister, whenever the media is around and issues are raised for the cellular industry, they are very quick, upfront, and they want to get involved and talk about things. The problem is that the proof of the pudding is in the eating. At the end of the day, we have not seen one benefit coming to consumers in this country because of the cellular industry, not one. I think that if the cellular industry wants to be part of this ship, of this sector, and wants to make it grow, they can't continue to always be in conflict and putting profits before the basic interests of what is important in this industry.
The costs of communication, as the Minister has identified, are vital to this country. Our cost of communication, compared with some other countries, is atrocious. The industry has to come on board, and it has to be honourable and bona fide. The kinds of agreement that we saw signed in the end, where they tried to get an agreement to stop Icasa from doing its work - and that that had to be part of the agreement - is atrocious. I don't know who the lawyer was who gave them that information, but that person should definitely be barred from ever being a lawyer again. [Laughter.] It is so basically ...