It is probably you and your family, yes. [Laughter.]
The next issue we have to raise is that of the interchangeability of personnel within the industry and between institutions in the industry. It creates a very bad perception if one day you find a person working in the cellular industry; the next you find them on the Icasa board. After two years, they find themselves back in the industry again. One doesn't want to point fingers in this regard, but the perception it creates is very bad. Some people go much further than perceptions, but I am not going to repeat what they say about these things.
The problem is that we have to start thinking of how we create firewalls. You don't have to be a genius to know that, clearly, it is people from that industry who will be in the institutions. [Interjections.] Well, you are definitely not a genius, far from it. [Laughter.] The issue is that we have to create firewalls, and we have to create measures to make sure that there isn't inappropriate behaviour.
That brings me to conflicts of interest. I don't know how the policies were agreed to previously, but the conflict of interest that was dealt with in this industry - and it's in the legislation - basically says you can go and do what you want to. If you want to be an employee with the SABC and you want to enter into contracts for services in the SABC, all you have to do is to declare. Clearly, that policy decision is wrong.
It is wrong, and the chairperson has outlined it. People who are either board members or employed by an institution and their close families cannot be involved in delivering services for that same entity. It is completely and utterly wrong. Merely declaring interest is completely inappropriate. We declare an interest, and we go ahead! So, of all the issues our chair raised, it is very important that this becomes part of the policy issues as well.
Then there is the issue of financial management, and others have raised it too. This is a very serious point, and I do not know how we are going to solve this issue. Two things are the problem. The one is the lack of systems. My logic tells me it should be easy to put systems into place for getting things done. However, for some reason we are just not getting it right. If you look at the problems in all the institutions ...