House Chairperson and hon members, the ANC will support this legislation. We do so because we understand that in the process of lawmaking there will be no sterile environment that is vacuum cleaned completely, having no relationship with the executive and Parliament.
These are Members of Parliament who also happen to come from our ranks and we appreciate that in the process of doing their work, they will come across instances and issues that require, in hindsight, a request to introduce things they may not have had in mind at the beginning of the process. That is life; and experience. Therefore, we appreciate that they've done as they requested, on the understanding that legislation is coming to us for further debate and more time to interrogate these issues as well; and where the need arises we will not hesitate to introduce changes that will satisfy both the process and the content.
Hon Smith says that they will reject the Bill; it's their right to do so. But he exaggerates, naturally, he dramatises what happened in the committee. He spoke the most; contributed - in my opinion - the most useful questions and comments in the committee; and he intimidates with the size of the documents. However, consequential amendments often appear huge but are technical and not much time needs to be spent on them. We've done this before, Peter. You are surprising, today; but I suppose you have to meet the mandate to act dramatic. That's politics, we understand it.
There are two things that I would like to say. Of course, in the initial stages, pieces of legislation do often cause confusion as they require explanation. We are not nave; we appreciate and understand that this is why there are Members of Parliament who have to explain this legislation. This is why the structures in the provinces that interacted with this legislation gave them permission.
You cannot say that you don't care about what is happening in the provinces, including yours, when, in their wisdom, they agreed with the legislation. Its a bit strange to say that, especially if they represent the majority of the people in KwaZulu-Natal. It is strange to dismiss them as insignificant.
The concerns raised about disparities in remuneration and support are matters of substance and content, of transformation of the institution of traditional leadership. We understand that the work underway is intended to provide a thorough systematic look at all of these issues so that the department that is going to be set up will be in consultation with traditional leaders across the country, and find sustainable solutions to these problems that speak to all the concerns we have in our country to provide equitable support across all institutions of governance.
We also appreciate that some of this legislation seeks to provide coherence in the relationships across the three areas of national, provincial and local Houses. This is one of the tasks of the new legislation that is being introduced. This is very useful, because without that coherence we cannot deal with this problem in a manner that makes sense, because of the fragmentation that exists currently. In that sense, they constitute a very important piece of work that needs to be done.
We are appreciative of the necessity to fast-track the Commission on Traditional Leadership Disputes and Claims because of the outstanding work that still needs to be done; the agitation on the ground - in most of the areas of our country - where people are concerned about those who, in the opinion of their communities, are not really traditional leaders.
They need to be told in a manner that explains the negative consequences that may arise from this. Consenquently, this commission and how it will work, its modus operandi - learning from the previous commission - it must be changed to make it more effective in providing for more provincial input so that the solutions raised reflect the peculiarities of each province. On this matter, hon Doman, ideologically, the problem with the old- fashioned ideologists like you is that you don't recognise the value of managing polarities. Decentralisation and centralisation - the two go together. Some things are best done at a national level and some at a local level. You have to always look at situations; you can't ... as if ...
... o fana ka makgona tsohle ... [... you are giving a solution to all problems ...]
... a solution to all problems, every time, and say "decentralise". It is ridiculous; it doesn't work in that way. [Applause.] You have to study, look at the circumstances and look at what is best done and work on the basis of circumstances - decentralise or centralise if appropriate. Yes, you do that. This is what we agreed on with the Planning Commission, how it is going to do it.
There is no doubt about accountability, since every institution of government, elected or traditional, must be accountable to the people of this country. We have required that governance must be people-centred and people-driven. Communities in areas under the jurisdiction of traditional leaders need to see them being responsive to their needs, especially if they are using the state's resources.
We are appreciative of the gender language of the legislation. This is the responsibility we have as MPs. When the executive does it, it's correct as the hon member said appreciatively. It is not only in the language, in other words, in the form, but the content of the work of this institution must express its value to men and women, young and old people in their work. It is for that reason that this important work needs to be followed up.
The objection is that this happened at the behest of the executive. We have, as Parliament, delegated that the executive will initiate legislation and present it to us to look at it. In these instances, we negotiated and agreed that in future we need to have a process that will allow a lot more qualitative input and debate and discussion in different circumstances. These are special circumstances. It is one of those species dealing with the transition that we must treat exceptional without, thereby, giving up our responsibility to engage in intense debate and discussions.
But we have been promised that legislation a this will be tabled and we'll deal with it appropriately and will continue to be in consultation with traditional leaders. We are aware that a summit of traditional leaders will be taking place, possibly in December, at which these issues on traditional leaders will be addressed.
The civil society organisations and we ourselves should familiarise ourselves with the legislation without being intimidated by the size that Peter Smith is talking about. We have to read, Peter. It is the responsibility that we undertook in our constituencies, that we will do work in their name and interest. There is no doubt that the question of costs is an issue that needs to be attended to.
Finally, the capacity of Parliament needs to improve dramatically around technical mistakes that occurred. We need to get work done to minimise the number of mistakes made in the legislation to be tabled before the House. There is no question about the need for this capacity of work. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.