Thank you, Chairperson.
Kucacile ukuthi izintombi zaseKapa ziyalwa. [Uhleko.] [It is clear that the women from the Cape are fighters. [Laughter.]]
Hon Chairperson, hon members and hon premiers, thank you once again for the opportunity to say something after the very vibrant debate that has taken place.
When I spoke earlier, among other things I raised two challenges that are facing us as a country. The first is the one that the entire globe is facing, namely the economic crisis, which I believe we should take note of. It doesn't matter which part of the world we are in, it affects us.
It's true: reality was reflected in what the Minister of Finance said a few days ago. He indicated that, as a country, we had to adjust our spending and prioritise very carefully as to what it is that we can do. It is an important issue and, as Parliament, we should talk about this and be certain that we will support one another and co-ordinate our efforts to come out of this crisis.
The second challenge is that of HIV and Aids, with the statistics indicating how deep the problem is. As the leaders we need to recognise this and then take very clear measures, which must be extraordinary, to tackle this problem. The leadership - political and in government - should lead the people in dealing with very specific issues. To fight the stigma, we should encourage our people to get tested and to know their status.
Ngisamile lapha anyakazise amabhodlela lomthakathi. [Uhleko.] [Whilst I was waiting, this witchdoctor shook the bottles. [Laughter.]]
It is critical that we make the point to our people that testing is very important. It doesn't matter whether you test privately or publicly. What is critical is that the results are confidential. As leaders, we need to preach that everybody must get tested.
It does not mean that when you get tested everybody will know your status. The results will remain confidential, but at least you will know your status so that you can take care of your health. It is very important that the leadership should do this. I am sure we will say more about this as we approach World Aids Day on 1 December 2009. It is an important issue that should be taken very seriously.
Let me thank the hon members for the very vibrant discussion that we have had today; and the statements by hon premiers, which helped to paint a picture of what is happening in each and every province and what it is that our leaders in the provinces are doing to address the challenges and the plight our people are facing.
Among these were other statements relating to the challenge of the protests that have, in a sense, affected a number of areas. I think speakers have tried to identify what the issues were. Among the issues was the lack of service delivery, which was the main cause of the outcry. We would all agree that 15 years is certainly not long enough to redress the legacy of centuries. I think that must be taken into account.
The very fact that the country is structured in the manner that it is tells the story - there are some areas that are called townships and others that are not. Therefore, the conditions are not the same. It is not going to be an overnight affair to address these matters. It is going to be a long walk. Therefore, no one can deny the fact that in this short time, much as we have tried our best to do as much as we could, we could not have resolved all the issues.
Faced with this, after the elections we reconfigured government departments, in order to change the manner in which things were done when addressing the question of service delivery, and increased the speed of government, which was often very slow when addressing issues.
Nevertheless, I think it is important for people to indicate that they need to be prioritised because they are at the bottom of the ladder. Speakers also indicated that there was greed that has come out and has made people call upon some of the serving government officials to resign. That is not an easy matter because when allegations are made that have not been tested and proven, it is difficult to issue a verdict.
Of course, there was also a huge outcry about corruption. Again I think it is an accepted fact that corruption has been here for a long time. Simply because we are aware of it, since 1994, with the birth of our democracy, we itemised it then as an issue to be dealt with. For the first time it was talked about and we adopted strategies to fight it. [Applause.]
At times people forget the fact that it was the 1994 democratically elected administration that launched an attack on corruption. Before that nobody talked about it and it was rife. Therefore, when people call upon those who are corrupt to be dealt with, they are in fact taking further the struggle we launched in 1994 against corruption. What we must do is to quicken the pace of dealing with it.
I have spoken about this because I've held the view that the methods we are using in dealing with corruption are taking too long. We need to change the manner in which we handle this matter because if we don't, people are going to take the matter into their own hands. It is also important to say that if we have not proven it, it is still an allegation. The quicker action will help us in addressing and testing the allegations and checking whether they are true or not. We need to change the way this is done.
At times people are suspended for a long time, with pay, whilst the issue is being handled and sometimes it is very difficult to handle. We should accept that it is an important and legitimate fight against corruption. Therefore, we should do that. Somebody indicated that some of the reasons leading to these protests have been the political tensions among people. Having said that, to me, the critical point as a democrat, or a person who believes that people should be free to express themselves, is that there is nothing wrong with people protesting and drawing the attention of the authorities to the problems they are facing.
What I do not agree with is the violence that accompanies these protests, the trashing of roads and burning of houses. That is not acceptable. It undermines the importance of the reason why the people are demonstrating and showing their dissatisfaction or drawing attention to complaints, which is for their problems to be resolved. It absolutely undermines it. The protests don't make it better but, instead, they create more problems rather than helping people in dealing with them.
Speakers also very much supported the co-ordination of all spheres of our government. Since we have agreed that co-ordination is important, what we are then left with - we who are in the leadership of the three spheres - is how to work it out in detail and to make it work. How do we deal with it, including looking at what the rules are and the constitutional provisions? As we co-ordinate our work, are we in keeping with the constitutional provisions? I think that is important. There should be nothing out of place. We should be able to play and work within the rules. Therefore, as the three spheres of government, instead of confronting we should be complementing.
I'm also very happy with the very clear message by the Premier of Gauteng, demonstrating that as premiers they are here to represent their provinces, which is different from representing their parties.
I have made this point to the leaders of the political parties with whom I meet from time to time, who are represented in Parliament, that when I go abroad, whether it is to the AU or UN or whatever, I don't go there to represent the ANC but the people of this country. [Applause.] I told them that precisely because of this: I should respect the fact that whichever percentage they got in the elections, there was a percentage of people in this country that respected and supported them, and I should support and respect that.
Therefore, I am able to give reports to leaders of political parties about what happens. At times when I go to these places I seek their wise advice on the issues that affect them, for example climate change, relations in the country, the position of the continent, and so forth.
This emphasises that if you are a leader of a country or a province, you lead on behalf of the citizens, even though you were elected by the party. It is automatic and everybody understands that once you are elected, you then lead the province and the country. [Applause.] I was very happy that that point was made because it is helpful.
Mageba, you raised the issue of traditional leaders. I have been interacting with this question for a long time, even while I was still a freedom fighter. As history indicates, the traditional leaders led the anticolonial wars. Nobody should forget the fact that part of the colonisation process was to ensure that the dignity and the authority of the traditional leaders were taken away and given to magistrates and other levels of colonial government. That informed the decision that was taken as we crafted the Constitution about what was going to happen with the traditional leaders.
For the first time since 1910, we have established two houses, the House of Traditional Leaders, nationally and provincially. It was the first time that something like that happened. Therefore, the argument that nothing has been done for the traditional leaders would not be correct. They have some responsibilities, as outlined in the Constitution, for example to look at the Bills as they affect the traditional leaders, and to have a word with them and to give advice.
In actual fact, there has been no debate. Although we debated this matter, we did not necessarily acknowledge the fact that, indeed, this has been done. Probably we are looking for something else.
The debate about what happens between the councillors, mayors and traditional leaders has been at the level of local government. It has been an ongoing debate. A lot has been done in trying to deal with this issue. To me, the matter is easy, because I see no reason why there should be a fight between councillors and traditional leaders.
Traditional leaders are born and others are elected. Therefore, they come and go. Traditional leaders will be there forever. What we have been trying to find is a formula as to how to co-ordinate this and work together for the benefit of the local people. That is what we should say we need to do. At times the matter is put as if everything has been taken away from the traditional leaders.
It was after 1994 that a role was enshrined in the Constitution that the traditional leaders had to play. Historically, they all had to bow their heads and say "Nkosi" [Your Honour] to the magistrate. The magistrate had the final word, and at times even deposed them, if he thought they were not behaving themselves well. We need to address the matter differently and ask, "How are we going to arrive at a point where we will all be happy and satisfied?"
The reality is that all areas are not the same. In most areas, traditional leaders and local government are working very well; there are no problems at all. But in some areas there are problems. Part of the problem is that the matter also gets politicised. At times you can't differentiate between the political party's views and those of traditional leaders.
It is important to look at the matter because it is being discussed all the time. I just thought I should make the comment that a point should always be fair. We should be able to say that much has been done, but we still think something more needs to be done. We should be able to identify issues that need to be addressed, so that we don't all feel guilty, as if we've done what the colonialists did. Instead, we have tried to bring dignity and to say, "Let us find a way to work together."
Mageba, you touched on that point, so I just thought I should touch on it briefly as well. I was once involved in this process. As a Deputy President, I led a subcommittee trying to resolve this question. In the discussions we thought that maybe we should amend something in the Constitution. Those we reported to arrived at a different conclusion. They concluded that we could deal with the matter without necessarily having to amend the Constitution. The matter has been discussed and debated thoroughly. It doesn't mean that we cannot discuss the matter further.
I was also happy when the colleague from Mpumalanga indicated that this time the Grade 12 results might look better. [Interjections.] At this time we hold our breath when it comes to the matric results. Critical to that is the issue of education in general, which we have made a priority. In fact, we have to deal with this matter.
As we were doing the monitoring work, we discovered that half of the time the former black-only schools spent only 3,5 hours being taught, whilst the former white schools spent 6,5 hours. Then you wonder why the results are a problem.
In terms of education, there are things we need to deal with as a society. We are trying to deal with the fundamental issues in education, which should include increasing the time allocated to teach the students. I am touching upon it because I think you have raised an important point.
Many issues were raised here and one cannot go into all of them. Firstly, I would just like to thank all colleagues for giving me an opportunity to say something and also to respond to some of the issues very positively. I also want to thank them for being very free and frank in exchanging their ideas and views. Towards the end of the debate I realised that we were in Parliament. [Laughter.] Once you find the members standing up, one after the other, raising points of order, you must know that you are in Parliament! [Laughter.] You must know that there was a lively debate.
Thank you very much for the opportunity given to me. I really appreciate this. As we all know, the NCOP is an important meeting point, because this is where we all meet and share views about all three spheres of government at the same time.
I would like to apologise to the person who was representing Salga, because he was just getting to the point, trying to tell us what we needed to do, when his time expired. That is Parliament for you. At times you slip with the correct views, having not stated them, if you started by dealing with other things. That's why old parliamentarians start with the point and end up with other things aside. Thank you very much for a very good debate. [Applause.]