You know, the way to dodge debate ... You know, these people always say we must debate, that "the ANC does not want to debate", but when we debate, they heckle, they yell. I really will withdraw if you wish me to. But, you see, if I withdraw, I will go on the SABC tonight and I will say exactly what I want to say now. [Interjections.] All right. The key problem ... [Interjections.]