Hon Chairperson, let me start by acknowledging all the inputs that were made by hon members, particularly starting with colleagues from provinces as MECs, for sharing with us your programmes as you are implementing them in various provinces. It is very clear that indeed we are on track.
Co-operative governance, as I referred to earlier, is being implemented and I thank you very much for that. That is why we gather in this National Council of Provinces to share views as we do.
I just want to turn to the Western Cape though. Appreciate, firstly, that the Western Cape province, which is part of our national government, does say, hon MEC, that the programme that you have implemented on child abuse - we appreciate that and indeed you did say that - needs an intersectoral approach and a multidisciplinary approach. We agree with that. However, it may be necessary, just as a word of cautionary advice, that we look at the causes of this problem, because you can indeed begin a programme of mobilising people when, in fact, you are not looking at the causes of the problem. In the Western Cape I think, hon MEC, it is necessary to look at the drug problem in this province. We need to embark on a very serious anti- drug campaign in this province, because two out of every five cases of child abuse, child molestation and all of those are actually caused by drug abuse. So let us address the causes and not just the symptoms. Having said that, I would like to say that we are in the situation that was spelled out earlier on of this global crisis, partly and mainly because of market fundamentalism - let's face it. Now we are being told that there is a province in South Africa called the government of the Western Cape that is actually following policies that we know have actually failed in the world. We have to contend with that and we have to say "yes".
No, we are not going to be able to do that. The entrepreneurship that we are talking about is indeed entrepreneurship within the context of the policies of this country, mixed economy focused on people, focused on the poorest of the poor, as well as developing them and not only the haves, as it always happens and as it is being propagated by the province of the Western Cape government.
With regard to the province of KwaZulu-Natal, hon colleague, I think we appreciate the fact that we are beginning to work with the SA Social Security Agency, Sassa. One hon member raised the issue about the need to devolve functions of Sassa to provinces. We have gone past this issue in our previous Minmec and we have resolved this issue to say there is a need to work with provinces. However, we cannot go back to the devolution and assignment and/or assignment of functions of Sassa, because of the famous Mashaba case that actually led to the formation of Sassa in the first place.
The hon member of Cope, if this matter of poverty were not so serious an issue, I would have really laughed myself sick at the poverty of ideas that was displayed by you here. Indeed, hon Chairperson, I think Cope deserves to be censured for the absurdity of the views they hold about the poor of this country, and in particular the women. This can only confirm that they are a party of the middle class and the rich, and a party that bears no consciousness indeed for the levels of poverty afflicting the citizens of this country.
Interestingly, what they assert has been contradicted by independent research. We in this department actually conduct research on everything that we have to make decisions on. Listen, for if you are a good listener, you will not repeat the same mistakes. According to research, there is no link between child-support grants and teenage pregnancy. The registration of children happens mainly at the age of two; between nought and two years of age the registrations are low. Now, if mothers were registering or getting babies for the sake of the grant, they would register them at month one. That is the linkage, and there is no linkage at all.
The social grants are self-targeting and that is what research says. The social grants are linked to positive social outcomes; that is what research says. For instance, the school enrolment actually increases where children are being fed; where poor children are being fed and assisted, they stand up and they go to school. Research has shown that access to health improves the quality of life of the people - fact that research has proven. The ability to search for employment - Luthuli House will teach you a lot - occurs where a person has been able to at least receive social assistance - a fact proven by research. So, the poverty of ideas that you come up with here, please leave it somewhere else and not here.
I just want to talk about the issue of the five-year local government plan, as raised by the hon member from Salga. Indeed, we agree that there is no place called national, or geographic space called national. We all converge at local government level. We have made a decision and we have agreed at Minmec level that we will invite Salga representatives to our Minmec and to such fora for the purpose of dovetailing and working together in this sphere of government. We also do know that the very heavy issues the hon member raised here are to be addressed within the context of the entire discussion that is being led by our Minister for Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, which is a matter that has to deal with devolution of powers to local government and the future of provinces. That is where this debate is located. Let us wait for that debate and then deal with it as we come to that point.
The Children's Act has actually been signed by the President; we are just awaiting the finalisation of the regulations. As a caring government, a government that understands what it does, we have been participating in a public participation programme as these regulations were being drafted. We have just finalised that process and now at the end of July we will be dealing with the finalisation of that consultation process, and the President will certainly sign those regulations and the implementation of the Children's Act will happen.
I also want to touch on the issue of matters raised by the hon member about HIV and Aids and grants. We are currently looking at all these matters within the department and within the social sector in its entirety. But, for now, we actually hear that members in society are suggesting that we classify those who are HIV positive and Aids-infected to fall under the disabled, to consider that as the disability. Cabinet has agreed on a working definition of disability for now, but we do believe that these are matters that have to be looked at to ensure that we assist those who are sick, hon Radebe, because it is a necessary thing to do so that those vulnerable people who may not be working, but are unable to get any income, are also assisted. It is a broader part of discussions that are taking place.
I think that, hon members, on all the issues that have been raised, the remaining ones are fraud and corruption issues. Again, research tells us that here in South Africa, the norms of leakages on fraud and corruption are leakages that you find in any other and every other system. Here in South Africa we are currently ranging between 2% and 3%, and worldwide and globally on average we are between 3% and 5%. We are, in fact, just below that international average. However, that does not necessarily mean that we must be complacent. One of the things that I did not touch on and that I must bring into the speech is that we are actually, in Sassa and in the department, on a day-to-day basis, working on this issue of ensuring that we deal with fraud and corruption.
Very evidently, as the hon member was saying, when we do research and when we institute an investigation, the outcome is that people must be arrested and so on; somebody else must stand up and beat our drum. We are investigating many people on a daily basis. You know that more than 4 000 people were fraudulently on the system of Sassa. They were dealt with by this government. Now there are those that are from the private sector - we are dealing with those as well. So, please watch the space and watch the sky, because we are indeed dealing with these issues. Thank you very much. [Applause.]