Chairperson ... siyabonga kakhulu, siyabonga Kumalungu ahloniphekile aleli Phalamende ngezeluleko zawo abeziphakamisa lapha kanye nalokho abakugxekayo. Mhlawumbe uma sizoqala sibheke ... [... thank you very much, thanks to the hon Members of Parliament for the advice as well as the criticism they have forwarded here. But if we can start by assessing ...]
... from what the chairperson has said, criticising the lack of policy in sector policing. I think we will take that criticism. We will have to go back and actually correct that.
On the issue of the Independent Complaints Directorate, ICD, perhaps we need to say that we have heeded the call of members. A revamp of that is already under way, together with the Police Secretariat, so thank you for your wise advice.
DA member Kohler-Barnard, seated there, really makes me wonder what one can do to impress upon hon Members of Parliament to concern themselves and educate themselves about processes. She makes an assertion here about the national commissioner, that we have extended his stay in office. Had she asked, perhaps outside of this, she would have been informed that there is no such thing. The expiry date has come for the national commissioner, but after having been informed one has to wait for two months. It is an easy thing. We would have easily given her the answer to that. It is not a difficult thing. [Interjections.]
The second thing is talking about expertise being scattered all over. Well, it is one of her disappointments that members of the Directorate of Special Operations, DSO, in their majority, decided to join the new unit. That was not what she had hoped to see, but it happened. That's the first disappointment, unfortunately.
The second one is coming here and patronising the police, saying all those things about the police and then at the end of the day you thank them. [Interjections.] The positive things done by the police have not even been mentioned. We come from a festive season which was a crime-free period. She never said a thing because it is a positive thing, which doesn't suit her. She comes here and never utters a word about the general elections. [Interjections.] There is nothing positive from her in that regard. We have just come from the Confederations Cup, and hon members have been commenting about that. But we know, because there is no answer and no constructive idea, just a slightly constructive idea from her. We won't get anything and we would be expecting too much.
We need to reiterate the issue of the training in the SAPS. We didn't want to say what we said during the state of the nation address. Just recently we benchmarked the SA Police Service against international organisations, whether in Scotland or in the Netherlands. Our SAPS members, these ones and many more outside, have passed that. In fact, some of the countries commented and wanted to know how we do it here. [Applause.] If the hon member had decided to listen during the state of the nation address, we would have given her that information.
She comes here again to talk about the 94% success rate of the Scorpions. McCarthy was heading the Scorpions when he came to Parliament and said that people are blowing the success of the Scorpions out of proportion. He was saying that while well aware of the fundamental mandate of the Scorpions, namely to fight complex crimes which are transnational in nature. I can ask - and she can't provide anything, I don't want to waste my time - just a single one of those fundamental mandates. Nothing. Interjections.]
With regard to 10111, yes the Auditor-General has raised that matter. Now the member has actually pointed to the fact that most of the calls are abandoned. But that is not the task of the Auditor-General. She gave us facts about what she found. When we had to go and investigate, we found that more than 80% of the calls to 10111 are prank calls. If she cared, she would know those things. Whether talking about statistics or moving from an uninformed basis, it is clear that from her mouth the only thing you are going to get is complaints and more complaints. There are no solutions. And we have accepted that we would be expecting too much if we thought there might be something there.
The hon George, as a former hon Deputy Minister of Defence of the Republic of South Africa, firstly it is funny that I agree with you on many issues, but not on the "broer" [brother] thing. [Interjections.] But most of the things said by the hon member are correct, for instance regarding the issue of overcrowding. I know that you have only just joined Parliament, but the public has been informed that at the beginning of the year Cabinet took a decision to deal with the issue of overcrowding by establishing a new branch of awaiting-trial detainees. That branch will take care of this.
And regarding the things you are saying about border management and the retention strategy, I wonder if you shared these good ideas with your colleagues when you were still the Deputy Minister of Defence. [Interjections.] But they are good; make no mistake, they are good! You know, we sorely missed your wise words on these issues for the past 10 years, Mr George. [Applause.]
Mr Groenewald, regarding the point you raised about reverse racism, you and I should know better. This is one sensitive matter, owing to our historical past. I will just make an offer to you that we should talk about these matters. They can't just be blown up, thereby affecting our moving forward with the programme of nation-building. I know we will find the time to talk about that. [Interjections.]
You accept that? Oh, good!
With regard to the issue of the former National Commissioner of Police, you raised the fact that he was a diplomat in the police in that position. In more ways than one, every member knows and has expressed the fact that you want strong leadership. That's what you want. You know that the commissioner does not arrest people. That is not his task. How can a diplomat arrest people? He can't. The task of the national commissioner is to ensure proper command, control and leadership. It has nothing to do with these criminals. The police will actually arrest those people. So, I think we should be able to find time, in particular on the earlier matter.
Kubaba uNdlovu: Gatsheni, cha, sikuzwile Boya benyathi. Sikuzwile. [Uhleko.] [To the hon Ndlovu: Gatsheni, no, we heard you Boya benyathi. We understood you. [Laughter.]]
The point you raised about victim-friendly facilities is a matter that we will have to continue probing to ensure that they are where they're supposed to be. But ...
... uyabona la ngingakuzwanga khona Boya benyathi, kulapho usukhuluma nge ICD. Usuthi i-ICD kwenzeka kanjani ibambe iphoyis a bese iyobika kwelinye. Ewu! Ngiye ngaphoxeka lapho Boya benyathi - ngiphatheke kabi ngoba manje phela wena ungomunye wabantu abalapha ePhalamende abashaya umthetho futhi uyawazi lo mthetho okhona. Ngaphandle-ke kokuthi wena Boya benyathi uyaphakamisa ukuthi, cha awushintshwe lo mthetho. Lokho kungumsebenzi wenu lowo Boya benyathi. Kodwa uma usuthi uphatheke kabi - uma kuphatheka wena kabi ukhona la ngaphakathi, abanye? Hawu! Ewu! Ungiphoxile. [Ihlombe.] Kodwa sizoxoxa, sizoxoxa Boya benyathi. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[... Boya benyathi I did not understand you when you were talking about the ICD. When you were asking why the ICD arrests a police officer and then reports him to another police officer? Hey! You disappointed me with that one Boya benyathi - I was disappointed, because you are one of the people who pass laws here in Parliament and you know this law. Unless you propose, Boya benyathi, that we amend this law. And that is your duty Boya benyathi. But if you say you are concerned about this - if it is you who is concerned and you are inside here, what about others? Gosh! You disappointed me. [Applause.] But we will talk, we will talk Boya benyathi.]
But members, in general, I think that we do have challenges within the Police Service, starting, as people have pointed out, at the level of command and control ...
O! cishe ngakhohlwa Mfundisi! We we weMfundisi ... [Oh! I nearly forgot Reverend! Mr Reverend ...]
... hon member Meshoe ...
...e yi unenhlanhla. [... gosh you are lucky.]
But you have raised many points and one of them actually speaks to your ideological orientation. And that is your rejection of the street committees. But then go further and say that it is not the job of people in the streets to be in the fight against crime, because that would bring about vigilantism and so on.
Cha Mfundisi, cha! [No, Reverend, no!]
We will continue engaging people at street level, at community level, at all levels. It is the task of all of us, not only the police. [Interjections.] We have said that no matter how many policemen one can employ, you can't have the police all over the country.
Thank you very much, hon members and thank you, Chairperson.
Siyabonga. [Ihlombe.] [Thank you. [Applause.]]
Debate concluded.