Deputy Chairperson, I'd like to thank all the hon members, led by the chairperson of the select committee, hon Rasmeni, and all participants in this debate.
I think this was a very good debate for us, because all of you had positive suggestions to make. I think if we could all do that, work together and make suggestions, that would help a lot. [Interjections.] Yes, we can all do more.
I'd just like to respond to what hon Rasmeni said, by saying that I agree with her and the President, that indeed we should shun laziness and incompetence and make sure that people work hard and are efficient. Of course she's right, the department has started fighting corruption. She mentioned the fact that more than 300 cases have been completed and that many of those officials would have been dismissed. But, unfortunately, that is not the end, and we are the first to admit it.
Regarding the challenges of a disclaimer, as I said in my opening remarks, we are working very hard on that because we don't want to see a disclaimer ever again. Of course, it might not be easy to move from a disclaimer to clean, so there has to be a gradual improvement over the coming years. I think what we should be looking at is gradual improvement, and that's what we are going to be working on. Hopefully, eventually we'll get to a point where we get a clean audit.
In response to the hon member of the DA - where is she? - I'd like to agree with you and take up your challenge to go around during recess and constituency period. I don't want you to look only at the bad things at Home Affairs, but also to tell us about the good ones. Indeed, I'd like to urge all hon members to look at Home Affairs as part of the work they'll be doing during every recess. Make it a point to pop in and do spot checks, see how things are and talk to the manager if there are things that are wrong. Tell them that you're an MP and this is what you have seen.
That's why I'm saying turning Home Affairs around has to be a national effort. The MPs are going to be critical in that. So, I want to agree with you, but also ask all hon members to do that during recess and give us feedback. We really have to get this right.
Of course, I may not necessarily agree with you when you say that we need a very lean and mean department, because Home Affairs is a very labour- intensive department. You have to make sure that people fill in the forms properly. Even if we have a live capture that is done properly, it all has to do with people. So, we can't be as lean as maybe other departments. It's like education and health; those can't be lean because they are labour- intensive departments. So, we'll do our best, but we can't be that lean.
Of course, I also want to say that we have been improving. You mentioned that we have improved on the first ID. On the reissue, we can actually issue you with a temporary ID on the same day, and I think we can't go beyond that. We can't give you an ID in less than a day. So, we are at our best. We can make it shorter, but we want to be able to verify that you are a South African. That's the reason you have to go to the offices where we can verify with your thumb print that indeed you are on our population register, before we give you an ID. So, there, I think we have done very well.
Of course, we will also be improving our mobile units. We're going to be equipping them so that indeed they are like a Home Affairs office on wheels, and they can provide everything that you can get at Home Affairs.
We are going to be filling posts, but we don't want to rush into filling posts just for the sake of it. We have to make sure that we get competent professional people to fill them. During recess, we will be interviewing deputy directors-general, because we need to fill four such positions, which are vacant. So, we will be doing that. They should then make sure that they recruit competent people below them.
I just want to also agree with ...
... Mageba, siyayizwa into oyishoyo ngeKhomishani Lokhetho. Lokho okunye okushoyo sizokubheka kodwa ubuqinisile uk uthi noma iKhomishani Lokhetho lizimele kodwa ke lisebenza phakathi komthetho nemigomo yalapha eNingizimu Afrika, ayikwazi ukuphumela ngaphandle.
Uma kuyiqiniso ukuthi bathatha odadewabo babafake emahhovisi kuzofanele sikufakele izibuko lokho, ngoba akuyona into okufanele yenziwe. Kodwa ke sizoyibheka. Nalena yokuthi kukhona izikhulu eziphezulu eziphethe (senior managers) abaphase isitandathi 2 sizobheka ngoba kwesinye isikhathi mhlambe sekukhona nokuthi banesipiliyoni, asazi. Ngakho ke sizobheka ukuthi yisiphi isidingo esiye senza ukuthi kube njalo.
KuMnumzane uFeldman weCope iziphakamiso azenzile ezinye sizozibheka kodwa ... (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)
[... Mageba, we understand what you are saying about the electoral commission. We will consider some of what you are saying, but you were right when you said even though the electoral commission is independent, it is working within the laws and regulations of South Africa; it cannot be excluded.
If it is true that they employ their sisters as office bearers, we will have to investigate that, because that should not be done. But we will look at it. We will even look at whether there are senior managers who passed Standard 2; at times this might happen because they have experience, but we do not know. Therefore, we will look at why that is so.
We will look at some of the suggestions made by Mr Feldman of Cope, but ...]
... I just want to say, yes, during the Confederations Cup we did pilot some of the visas, such as the events visa, for instance. But, unfortunately, we piloted it only with Egypt. It worked fairly well, because you need to produce a ticket so that we know you are going to the event, and then you get an events visa free of charge. So, we hope that we will be able to do that to an even greater extent during the Fifa World Cup.
I'm running out of time, but I didn't use all my time during my opening address. If I don't respond to some of the issues, it will not be because I didn't hear them, but because we agree with some of them as they are just constructive suggestions that we will be looking at.
But, I just want to dwell a bit on the issue of foreigners. Foreigners in our country, as I said, can be classified into three groups, actually. There are those who are genuine asylumseekers who are running away from persecution. These are in the minority. Then there are those who are here because they have scarce skills; they are those who have their entry into the country facilitated. If you know of any foreigners with scarce skills amongst those whose entry into the country is facilitated, who have difficulties getting permits or visas, let us know.
Then there is the third category, which is in the majority, that is economic migrants. Such people come here not because they are persecuted, but because they are looking for opportunities. I think we must be careful not to say that they are the ones who fuel crime and who do all these things. Just as there are criminals in South Africa, there will be criminals in Mozambique and in Zimbabwe. Some of them, indeed, may find their way here, but a big portion of crime in this country is probably accounted for by South Africans, and we should not lose sight of that.
Secondly, the reason we are saying that we want government to agree to a policy of separating the asylumseekers from economic migrants is because we want to be able to get everybody who comes into the country documented properly. Then we'd know where they are; what they are doing, unlike uMageba.
UMageba othi, uthi uma ehamba ebusuku ethakatha ababone begcwele yonke indawo kufanele sibazi ukuthi baphi, benzani, uma besebenza basebenza kuphi futhi kanjani. Ngakho ke yingakho sifuna ukuhlukanisa khona sizokwazi ukubasheshisa ngoba... (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[It is Mageba who says, when he walks at night patrolling he sees them all over the place; we have to know where they are, what they are doing, where they are working and how they are working. Therefore, that is why we want to separate the issues so that we are able to speed up the process because ...]
... processing the asylumseeker is a very long process; it can take years to complete, yet you know that these people are not asylumseekers. But, if they lose the case, they appeal and the appeal process takes long. If there was an opportunity for them to just register as economic migrants, we could do that very quickly. So, that is the reason we'd like to change that process.
With regard to IDs that are in the offices, yes, I can give you, Comrade D Rantho, a breakdown. As we speak, there are just under half a million IDs that have not been collected countrywide. By the end of the first week in June, there were fewer than that. However, their number is now increasing. One of the campaigns that MPs must help us with is to encourage people to look after their IDs. These are lean times; we don't have money. We can't be producing and reissuing a million IDs that people don't even bother to collect afterwards. People misplace their IDs and now that they have been reissued, they don't care to collect them. It's going to be very difficult; if our budget is cut, that's where we are to cut - on reissuing of IDs. So, people must look after their IDs.
Abantu abanakekele omazisi babo njengezikhali zamantungwa. [People must take good care of their IDs.]
They must look after their IDs as though their life depends on them.
I'd like to thank you for your indulgence. We will meet again and continue our discussion, but thank you for supporting our budget. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.