Yes, of course, that is the point, provided you can claw it back by virtue of growth, etc.

The global crisis has operated on three dimensions, not one. It's not merely a financial crisis; it's a crisis of the financial sector, which impacts on the real economy - that is, the manufacturing industry - which in turn impacts on society. That is the point we have to understand.

In the US, Germany and even in the UK, labour is watching the situation as unemployment grows. The argument now internationally - and it must also take place here, we mustn't be scared of discussing this - is that there is a financial crisis in the financial sector. This crisis impacts on industry and jobs, as the last speaker so eloquently set out, and that impacts on society.

In South Africa with the huge unemployment we have, we cannot afford to look at the financial crisis purely as a financial crisis. It is also a social problem that we have to take account of. I don't want to go into the details, but one of the interesting things about the social crisis is that Obama's savings package is not only to save business and enterprise. It also feeds into unemployment - they are paying money to unemployed people. They are mopping up the subprime crisis as best they can and so there are interventions also at the social level.

Fortunately, we have a good social welfare system and we are doing quite a lot in that respect, but we also have to pay attention to what happens to unemployed people and whether we can prevent it. Part of the programmes that the Minister is talking about is certainly to try and limit redundancies as much as possible and put in place solutions or remedial effects. All of this is done in the name of what is now popularly talked about in economic circles, namely counter-cyclical measures, which means that as the economy goes down, government intervenes in order to put humps on the road so that the slow-down is less than it might be; and as the economy recovers, you take a counter-cyclical measure to make sure that the boom doesn't lead to a bust. That's what new economics is all about.

Let me say to the DA, and especially to Cope, that in South Africa government spending is crucial.