That is something you have to wait for, Mr Ellis, until you get to Cabinet. [Laughter.]
Now what are other countries doing? Minnesota, a state in the United States, has reduced state government aid by US$250 million, made reductions in state health and human services programmes, and has reduced state agencies and other programmes.
In Ireland a 2% pay cut has been imposed on all those earning between E15 000 and E75 000. Those earning incomes above E75 000 have to be levied at between 4% and 9% of the income as an additional levy - I'd like to know how many volunteers we have for that here in the House! There is also a health levy increase to 5% and a number of other cuts in the various services that government offers.
Greece, of course, has been in the news, but amongst the many things that they had to do as part of their fiscal consolidation is that annual holiday bonuses have been capped; pensioners' bonuses will also be capped; taxes will be increased; and deep cuts in defence spending and hospital procurement have been made. Now this story goes on in Portugal, Spain and France, and in the last 24 hours, Italy has joined the queue of those making these cuts.
Notwithstanding that record of what the rest of the world is doing, we can safely say that in South Africa we have a very clear plan, in spite of some of the comments that we have heard today, to manage our debt.
Let me repeat that the increase in our borrowing wasn't because of our own choice; it was forced upon us. We did it because we wanted to protect the programmes of government and to ensure that our people are not deprived of the services that they need or that the investment in infrastructure expenditure is not compromised in anyway.
We were not profligate like Greece or any other country and I believe that, notwithstanding our challenges, we have a very clear fiscal consolidation plan that will eventually take us from last year's 7,3% deficit, which is now 6,7%, of course, to 4,1% in three years'. And I think it will even be lower than that if we manage ourselves carefully. [Applause.]
Hon Mr MacKenzie, your question around consultants is, in fact, answered in the Estimates of National Expenditure booklet - the thick one - and I can give you page references where you can actually find it. That might help you to identify where those numbers are. Your point about the procurement processes and so on is valid, but I think it's improper to just finger one department like the Department of Correctional Services, where I know the Minister is putting in extraordinary efforts to ensure that the procurement process is put right.
The concerns that we have about debt service costs are valid. This increase from R57 billion last year to R104 billion in three years' time. And we require, if you like, a national consensus amongst all of us on the fact that we can't just borrow endlessly, neither can we spend endlessly on interest payments on our borrowings. We need to manage our fiscus in the right way, therefore, we certainly share the sentiments in that regard.
Many of our colleagues have raised questions around value for money, savings and corruption. I think we have gone some way to understanding where the gaps in the procurement system are. I don't think we have done enough, yet. There is some intensive work going on and hopefully, in the next month or two, we will be able to announce further steps to close these loopholes.
But the problem here, ladies and gentlemen, is that there is a significant culture of rent-seeking that is developing in South Africa. Make easy money; access it easily; make the right connections with politicians and bureaucrats and without putting in any sweat equity at all - I don't have to sweat, I don't have work hard, I don't have to think hard - all I need to do is make the right connection. We must end that. [Applause.]
On state-owned entities, all of us would agree that the kind of paradigm within which these entities have operated for the past five or 10 years is not quite the paradigm we want for the future. This is a matter that the President, as you know, has taken in hand and I think in the next six months or so we will begin to see some results on many of the issues that colleagues have raised.
On the savings question, let's remember that in this Budget itself the efforts that we have put in over a very short period of time gave us some R25 billion of savings which we have redistributed over the three-year period to various priorities. This is a start, but we need to do a lot more than we have done up to this point.
Colleagues, for example, the hon Lebenya-Ntanzi has raised various questions about heads of departments taking more responsibility for the funds and how they spend them. I think here we would agree with you that there is more work that leaders within the Public Service can do in order not to raise expectations of more money, but to find innovative ways to do more with less money. That is the pattern that the rest of the world is following.
How do we fund our infrastructure needs? If you listen to all the announcements that we have had recently, including Mr Ndebele's announcement that we need R75 billion to fill the potholes in our road system, then the list that we have is long. One of the things that we as a country will have to look at is how to prioritise what we want to do on the infrastructure side. Where do we get the maximum bang for our buck, if you like, and the maximum impact on the economy as a whole.
It is interesting that one of the morning newspapers today gives credit to government for its infrastructure investment and its contribution to the GDP thus far. So, read that paper and its editorial; and it's a welcome acknowledgement of the efforts and plans of government itself.
The hon Ntapane raises questions about state-owned enterprises, SOEs, and in particular the SABC and Eskom. On behalf of Minister Hogan, I can certainly give you the assurance that Eskom is on a much better footing; that its management team is really ticking and very cohesive. There are very clear plans about where they want to take the organisation in order to make sure that we have the energy suppliers that we actually need; and it is beginning to correct some of the mistakes that might have been in the system.
I can't say the same for the SABC at the moment. There is a lot of work to do in that entity and many other entities to ensure that this culture of relying on government guarantees to keep them on this side of the auditors' line is one that we need to put an end to. Management in these entities must learn to take responsibility and they must deliver the goods. That is the key.
Mr Alberts, I regret to tell you that the word "communist" is not an unfriendly word these days, because we all refer to China and China is headed by a communist party. I think many of us might want to emulate what they do to get the kind of growth figure that they have; the kind of speed at which they can implement their infrastructure projects; and the culture of can-do. The days of "swartgevaar", I'm afraid, have been left behind sometime ago and we might have to find other ways of addressing some of the questions and concerns that you have. [Applause.]
We want to agree with Mr Swart that issues - several other colleagues have mentioned this as well - of roll-overs, wasteful expenditure, over- and underexpenditure, and not quite abiding by the Public Finance and Management Act, PFMA, are all issues which the Standing Committee on Appropriations have come across. Ministers and heads of departments I'm sure will give the appropriate attention to this.
In conclusion, let me say that we have done well, this year, to implement the Money Bills Amendment procedure and Related Matters Act in Parliament; to get the right level of interaction between Ministers and the portfolio committees; and to give attention to the key issues that we have before us.
Let us recognise that we do have a very uncertain period ahead of us. There are no guarantees that the revenues will come as we think or that the economy will sustain the kind of growth indicators that it is giving us at the moment. But there are two things that we need to bear in mind.
The first is that as we go into the next budget cycle we will have to learn about what real prioritisation means; we will have to learn that we have to take money from somewhere and give it somewhere else.
And we will have to learn that we have to make trade-offs, we can't do everything for everybody at the same time from the same pot of money, and so I'm waiting for volunteers to say that I can take money from them and give it to somebody else - not necessarily on this side, though.
Finally, we all need to take collective responsibility for the fact that babies should not be dying in our hospitals; people shouldn't be living in the conditions they live in when the President visited Sweetwater; and that a lot should be done to end the theft from the state and the rent-seeking that is happening.
So let me recommend that you adopt the Appropriation Bill and I thank you for this opportunity. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Bill read a first time.