Chairperson, I would like to thank hon members for the overwhelming support for these Budget Votes.
I would like to start by responding to a few things. Three years ago there were many rumours and huge speculation about my becoming the National Police Commissioner. The hon member Kohler is on public record referring to me as "advocate" at the time. [Laughter.] They were objecting to the perceived or rumoured appointment of "Adv" Nhleko as the National Police Commissioner. Today, I left school in Std 9. [Interjections.] So, that is an interesting contradiction, on the one hand.
Just let me state this to put the matter on public record: Hon Kohler, I hold an MSc in Leadership and Change Management from Leeds Metropolitan University in the United Kingdom. [Interjections.] I also hold what they call a national diploma in labour law at honours level with the Graduate Institute of Management and Technology. So, that matter is out there, and I do not know where you are actually looking. If you want to have a debate, for instance, about what happened with matriculation, we can do that, because it is not true that I left school in Std 9. What happened with matriculation is a story that I am sure you would not like to hear. It will be the subject matter for another discussion, I suppose. I just thought to put that on record, Chair. Try and look in the correct places, hon Kohler.
The one thing that I think we should all learn to do is to respect institutions that help us to observe the rule of law. You cannot have a situation where you have an institution that processes a particular matter, and then it is said that it was decided by one individual. You have professional bodies that process issues in this country. For example, with regard to issues affecting corrections, you have an independent professional body called the Correctional Supervision and Parole Board. You have medical practitioners. In this case that you referred to, hon Kohler, there were 13 medical practitioners dealing with that particular matter. To have a Mr Nhleko, for instance, who is so powerful as to instruct the Correctional Supervision and Parole Board as to what to do, as well as suspecting medical practitioners would be a serious matter that would have to be investigated from a professional point of view. We need to be quite careful about these things.
I agree with you on the question of the issues of infrastructure affecting the police's service delivery points such as police stations and so on. The Deputy Minister has been tasked with creating a bond between ourselves and Public Works to begin to look into some of those issues, such as the prioritisation of the construction of new police stations as well as issues of infrastructure in those particular instances.
Hon Mncwango, I think the question of civilian leadership is an endless debate. I can tell you this: If we are not careful, we will end up with a situation where, in this very portfolio, Members of Parliament should not say a word about the issues of policing because they do not have a police background. So, I am simply saying that it is an ongoing matter.
Regarding the question of police brutality that you raised, there are two things that I want to say. The one is that I think we should be clear that we do not have a prevalent culture of police brutality in South Africa. We have incidences, isolated incidences of police brutality, so the Mido Macia case is one of those. What is interesting, though, is that in response to each given incident, we do undertake our work in terms of investigating those particular matters and then acting accordingly; you will remember, for instance, in the recent past, the eight implicated policemen who had been fired from the Police Service even before the instruction came from the court. In fact, if you were to look at the trends within the Public Service, I think we have done very well in terms of the investigation and processing of the matter, as well as the subsequent sort of verdict to get those particular members out of the Police Service.
Rev Meshoe, I agree with the concern raised about the question of the conviction rate. However, it is precisely the reason why we are putting quite a lot of emphasis on strengthening our co-ordinating mechanisms in the criminal justice cluster as a whole, so that from arrest and processing to sentencing you have quite tightly co-ordinated activity. So, I think you have a point.
However, harping on the negative is dangerous. You see, hon members, there is some danger here, and I think this is what the Deputy Minister was trying to convey. The danger is this: If we do not value the work of the police, nobody else out there is going to value the contribution of the police in our society. You will have these killings in the Western Cape, for instance, as part of the backlash, precisely because of the message we churn out at the political level. So, we need to be careful. We need to be quite responsible.