According to the speakers' list, the hon B N Dlulane will make a statement.
[Mrs B N DLULANE: Mhlalingaphambili, ndiphakama ngexesha elibi, emva kokubhoxwa kwentetho ebimnandi kangaka zizibhoxi. [Uwele-wele.] [Chairperson, I am afraid that I have to stand up after a very interesting speech was obstructed by obstructors. [Interjections.]
Hon members will recall the heroic struggle waged by our countries during the last century for political independence, human dignity and economic emancipation. We take pride in the achievements made to promote and consolidate African unity and we salute the heroism and sacrifices of our people, particularly during the liberation struggles.
Colonialism in Africa and particularly apartheid in South Africa have projected African countries as part of Europe, rather than African countries. In order to cope with these challenges and to effectively address the new social, political and economic realities in Africa and in the world, we are determined to fulfil our peoples' aspiration for greater unity in diversity, as we will recognise and take account of the racial, ethnic, religious, political, linguistic and cultural diversity on our continent.
I would like to believe that as African countries, regardless of our past, or indeed because of it, we are committed to the continuous and sustained spiritual upliftment and fulfilment of all the individual persons who constitute African society and therefore the construction of a better society for all.
Since the Pan-African Parliament was first mooted, articles 7 and 14 of the monumental treaty establishing the African Economic Community signed in Abuja, Nigeria, on 3 June 1991 provided for a Pan-African Parliament for the community whose composition, functions, powers and organisation are today being discussed in this House. This treaty is monumental in that it adds yet another pillar to support our fundamental challenges of promoting human dignity and economic emancipation.
In order to strengthen the unity of our continent and its people, we have to establish African union to ensure the speedy establishment of all the institutions provided for in the Abuja Treaty, such as an African central bank, African monetary union, the African Court of Justice, and in particular, most of all, the Pan-African Parliament.
The Pan-African Parliament will not be a legislative body, but deliberative and consultative, and Pan-African parliamentarians' terms will run concurrently with their terms in their respective national parliaments.
In this endeavour we were inspired by the ideas which guided the founding fathers of our organisation and generations of Pan-Africanists in their resolve to forge unity, solidarity and cohesion as well as co-operation between African people and among African states.
As members of the South African Parliament with the task of ensuring the ongoing work of the establishment of the Pan-African Parliament, we have come up with the following resolutions. The Pan-African Parliament should be a deliberative body without any law-making powers. The Pan-African Parliament should be composed of eight members from each member state appointed by each national parliament from its ranks on the basis of broad representivity, with a minimum of three women members. Members of the Pan- African Parliament should represent the views of their respective parliaments. The term of each Pan-African parliamentarian should run with his or her term in the national parliament concerned. Some general objectives of the Pan-African Parliament should be inserted in the draft protocol. The seat of the Pan-African Parliament should be determined by the Assembly of the Heads of State of the African Union. The direct election of members of the Pan-African Parliament would not be appropriate. The procedure for the election of the president and vice-presidents should be specifically stated in the protocol. The protocol should be reviewed at intervals of not less than five years.
That is what we, as this Parliament, are saying. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Declaration of vote:
Mr Chairman, we are not opposed conceptually to the Pan- African Parliament, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions, and we simply do not think that the conditions yet exist for such a parliament. It is the right thing to do, but this is the wrong time. In terms of our values, a parliament presupposes truly democratic, multiparty, elected participants. We do not even agree in Africa on what constitutes parliamentary democracy. Certainly Libya does not qualify. In short, we cannot start at the end. We must have a developmental approach, building from the bottom, building sound foundations and infrastructure, including strong regional organisations based on trade and co-operation, on which to found a truly democratic parliament.
There has been far too little deliberation, and insufficient consideration and consultation, and we therefore oppose this measure at this time. For us it is too much, too soon.
Are you making a declaration, hon member?
Voorsitter, mnr Durr het gepraat namens ... [Chairperson, Mr Durr was speaking on behalf of ...]
Which province is that?
The Western Cape. [Interjections.]
The Western Cape has already made a declaration. [Interjections.]
Chairperson, may I address you on this issue?
Very well, but let me allow the Chief Whip an opportunity first.
Chairperson, on a point of order: Mr Durr has spoken and this is a provincial vote. If Mr Ackermann had a difficulty about Mr Durr's mandate or authority to speak, he should have stood up and objected at the time that Mr Durr was speaking.
He should know that Mr Durr is from the Western Cape and I assume that he does know. Mr Ackermann cannot now take an opportunity of speaking on behalf of the province when he has, as the provincial Whip, permitted another member from the delegation to speak on its behalf.
Hon member, I think that clarifies everything.
Chairperson, I think ...
Based on that explanation, I am not recognising you.
Chairperson, I think you should give me a chance to address you. You personally ruled that Mr Durr could make a declaration on behalf of the ACDP and not on behalf of the Western Cape. [Interjections.]
No, no,
That was told to me and you made that ruling. [Interjections.]
Chairperson, I think our members are becoming very economical with the truth.
Absolutely.
I believe this is the second occasion in a matter of half an hour that a situation like this has arisen. In the first instance, Mr Durr put it to the Minister that he had not raised the issue of Pan-African parliamentiarism.
I request, in my capacity as Chief Whip, that the records of Hansard be perused in order to ascertain whether, in fact, Mr Durr did raise the issue of the Pan-African Parliament in his speech or not. If he did, in fact, do so, and suggested to the hon the Minister that he had not done so, then the matter should be taken further.
In the case of Mr Ackermann, again, I believe we should peruse the records of Hansard and not debate the matter further. If Mr Durr had, in fact, spoken and conveyed to you that he is speaking on behalf of the party, and you had affirmed that he was speaking on behalf of the ACDP, then it is in order. But, if he did not do so, I then believe that the decorum and dignity of this House must be respected and the appropriate steps should be taken. [Interjections.]
Order! On what point are you rising, hon member?
Chairperson, on a point of order: I am very happy to provide the Chief Whip with a copy of my speech. I will hand it to him now. [Interjections.]
Chairperson, that is not a point of order. [Interjections.]
Chairperson, on a point of order: I approached the Chair earlier and asked him whether or not this measure was a provincial or a national measure, and I was told that I could raise a declaration of vote, which I consequently did.
Chairperson, I believe that Mr Durr is taking advantage of the proceedings in this House. He is now rising on a point of order which, in fact, is not a point of order. The statement that has been made is that the hon Chair had ruled that he could speak on behalf of the ACDP. Those were the words that were uttered in this House. I believe we should peruse the Hansard and deal with the matter appropriately.
I am not suggesting that a finding be made or a decision be taken now, but I want the hon Chair to have an opportunity to do so and deal with the matter in the appropriate way.
Order! We will check the Hansard and come back with a ruling.
Report adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.