Order! As there is no speakers' list, I will put the question that the Bill be agreed to. In accordance with Rule 63, I shall first allow political parties the opportunity to make their declarations of vote, if they so wish.
Chairperson, on a point of order: The Bill has not been introduced. We do not know which Bill you are referring to now. We have just voted on the Local Government: Municipal Systems Bill. You have declared the Local Government: Municipal Systems Bill passed, but you have not put the Local Government: Municipal Structures Amendment Bill yet. So we do not know what is under discussion.
Order! The Order was actually read out by the Secretary, and it was read out loudly and clearly.
Declarations of vote:
Chairperson, when the committee considered the Bill yesterday, we made two further amendments to the Bill, and we will be forwarding those amendments to the National Assembly. The amending Bill is an intermediary measure, a carry-through device that will ensure continuity and stability. It is aimed at facilitating and finalising the demarcation process and the impending local government elections.
Further, modernisation, as the Minister has alluded to, is inevitable. Based on this, the ANC will continue to work tirelessly to ensure that traditionalism is preserved as a symbol of unity and legitimacy.
Flowing from this, together with traditional leaders, we will transform ruling monarchies into modern reigning monarchies. What remains is for this House to start chasing the targets set in this and other local government transformation legislation, in collaboration with other spheres of government.
Finally, it is incumbent upon this House to operationalise the principles of section 41 of our Constitution. The ANC supports the Bill.
Order! Is there any other political party that wishes to make a declaration?
Chairperson, I am sorry, but there is some confusion in the Chamber. An amendment is being put while the Minister has not yet introduced the Bill. Everything seems a little confused. I therefore call on you for some order in connection with what is on the Table. The Local Government: Municipal Structures Amendment Bill is on the Table, while another Bill is being approved. The Minister should have made an introductory speech. I therefore call on the Minister to say something about the Local Government: Municipal Structures Amendment Bill, because it seems to me the hon member has suggested some amendments. [Interjections.]
Chairperson, on a point of order: If Mr Ackermann had consulted with his Whips - and I also indicated this to him in a meeting yesterday - he would have been aware of the fact that there were not going to be statements or debate on this particular matter. This is by consensus by all political parties in this House. I think it is proper that, in future, Mr Ackermann should consult with his Whip, unless there are difficulties of a personal nature between him and Mr Van Niekerk.
Chairperson, I do not think the Chief Whip knows what is going on in this debate. If he will concentrate on the debate, he will know what is going on. I know exactly what is going on in the debate, but the Chief Whip does not know what is going on in the debate.
Die Nuwe NP sal hierdie wetgewing aanvaar, maar ons wil ons teleurstelling uitspreek oor die feit dat die ANC nie gehoor gegee het aan versoeke van tradisionele leiers om op 'n meer aanvaarbare wyse wesenlike inspraak in plaaslike owerhede in hul eie gebied te h nie. Die erkenning van die Minister se departement in die media dat hy nie die vrese van tradisionele leiers bevredigend gehanteer het nie, is 'n duidelike bewys dat die ANC nie die belange van tradisionele leiers op die hart dra nie.
Die Regering erken dat hy reeds geruime tyd van tradisionele leiers se ontevredenheid bewus was en die vraag ontstaan dus waarom daar nou eers dringend en spoedeisend gereageer word. Dis niks anders nie as 'n bewys van 'n vrot en onsimpatieke Regering en 'n poging om tradisionele leiers 'n rat voor die o te draai met lippediens.
Die Nuwe NP het destyds 'n beroep op die Regering gedoen om die gedentifiseerde en wettige tradisionele leiers se gebiede as plaaslike owerhede af te baken eerder as om dit te versnipper. Die Nuwe NP het verder ook 'n beroep op die Regering gedoen om tradisionele leiers inspraak en stemreg in plaaslike rade sowel as in hierdie Raad te gee.
Deur sy halstarrigheid het die ANC weer eens bewys dat hy 'n party is net vir sommige ``comrades'' en elite arbeidsleiers. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[The New NP will accept this legislation, but we want to express our disappointment about the fact that the ANC has not responded to requests of traditional leaders to have a material say in local governments in their own areas in a more acceptable way. The admission of the Minister's department in the media that he has not dealt with the fears of traditional leaders in a satisfactory way clearly proves that the ANC does not have the interests of traditional leaders at heart.
The Government admits that it has been aware of the dissatisfaction of traditional leaders for some time now, and the question therefore arises as to why only now it is treating this as a matter of the utmost urgency. All this proves is that the Government is useless and unsympathetic and is trying to mislead the traditional leaders by paying lip service to this matter.
The New NP appealed to the Government at that stage to demarcate the areas of identified and legitimate traditional leaders as local authorities rather than fragmenting them. The New NP also requested the Government to give traditional leaders a say and a vote in local councils as well as in this Council.
The ANC's stubbornness has once again proved that it is a party only for certain comrades and elite labour leaders.]
Chairperson and the Council, the IFP supports the Local Government: Municipal Systems Bill, but not the Local Government: Municipal Structures Amendment Bill because the traditional leaders are still negotiating this Bill. Therefore the IFP cannot support the Local Government: Municipal Structures Amendment Bill, but only the Local Government: Municipal Systems Bill.
Mnr die Voorsitter, agb Minister en lede, die DP steun die wysigings soos aangebring aan die Wysigingswetsontwerp op Plaaslike Regering: Munisipale Strukture en aangesien daar 'n bietjie verwarring is, wil ek s ons steun al die genoemde wysigings wat die afgelope maand voor ons gedien het. Die wysigings verwyder die onsekerheid en verwarring met betrekking tot die interpretasie van die toepaslike onderafdelings van die Wet soos in sy huidige vorm en veral met verwysing na die allerbelangrike wysiging van artikel 84 van Wet 117 van 1998, naamlik die duidelike omskrywing van die funksies en bevoegdhede van distriksmunisipaliteite.
Daar is ook nou duidelikheid oor die fokus van gentegreerde ontwikkelingsprogramme deurdat die oorhoofse beplanning duidelik in die distriksmunisipaliteit gesetel is. Die wysiging van artikel 81 van Wet 117 maak voorsiening vir 20% verteenwoordiging vir tradisionele leiers in munisipale rade waar hulle voorheen op slegs 10% verteenwoordiging geregtig was.
Die DP sien met groot belangstelling daarna uit om te hoor watter wysigings volgende aan die wetgewing oor munisipale strukture aangebring sal moet word n vandeesweek se samesprekings tussen die Regering en die tradisionele leiers.
Die DP steun intussen die huidige wysigings. (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.) [Ms C BOTHA: Mr Chairman, hon Minister and members, the DP supports the amendments to the Local Government: Municipal Structures Amendment Bill, and since there is some confusion, I want to say that we support all the relevant amendments that we have dealt with over the past month.
The amendments eliminate the uncertainty and confusion with regard to the interpretation of the applicable subsections of the Act in its present form, and particularly with reference to the vital amendment of section 84 of Act 117 of 1998, namely the clear definition of the functions and powers of district municipalities.
There is now also clarity on the focus of integrated development programmes because overhead planning clearly vests in the district municipality. The amendment of section 81 of Act 117 provides for 20% representation for traditional leaders in municipal councils whereas they were formally entitled to only 10% representation.
The DP is waiting with bated breath to hear what further amendments will have to be effected to the legislation on municipal structures after this week's discussions between the Government and the traditional leaders. In the meantime the DP supports the present amendments.]
Bill, subject to proposed amendments, agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution (Inkatha Freedom Party dissenting).