PERFORMANCE MONITORING AND EVALUATION, AS WELL AS ADMINISTRATION IN THE PRESIDENCY: Chairperson, the answer is quite long. It's almost like the state of the department address. So, I'm not sure if you would prefer me not to take too much of your time to provide it.
Hon Minister, there are two ways of doing it: Either you summarise it within the time given or you can table it.
PERFORMANCE MONITORING AND EVALUATION, AS WELL AS ADMINISTRATION IN THE PRESIDENCY: Chairperson, I will summarise it and table the detailed one.
The department does not have a specific plan to deal with the issue which has been raised in the question. But the answer to that question is found in the nature of the work we are doing, so that if we become successful in ensuring that our outcomes-based monitoring and evaluation works, it will be able to overcome some of the challenges which we face.
Secondly, the individual institution's performance assessment will assist in ensuring that the departments and other institutions that deliver services to communities improve their services themselves.
Thirdly, the other part of our work, which deals with front-line service assessment and monitoring of all the institutions delivering basic services to our people directly would be able to contribute towards the alleviation of the problem of communities not getting a better service.
Fourthly, the visits by executives led by the President, the premiers, Ministers and everybody else to service delivery points, assist us to identify problems in advance which otherwise would take time for us to realise and take actions to deal with them.
Fifthly, the hotline presents us with credible information which assists us to follow up on issues which may affect communities which we could be able to arrest before they flare up.
Lastly, where these issues have been identified, there are interventions which we undertake in co-ordination with other departments to deal with those issues in order to ensure that communities get better service, thereby alleviating the problem of them having to march or demonstrate against institutions of the state. Thank you.
Chairperson, in the light of the indication that the detailed reply will be tabled, I will not ask a follow-up question. I take it that the tabled response will actually cover the follow-up question. Thank you.
I now call on the hon W N Madisha ... but I don't see him in the House?
Hon Chairperson, I perhaps pressed his button. Thank you.
Chairperson, I'm glad that she didn't press my button! [Laughter.]
Chairperson, hon Minister, I think the moot question here is: What is the mandate of your department? Because the question here asks if you have compiled a master plan. Now is it within the mandate of your department to do this? I'm saying this, because yesterday we received a briefing from the director-general in your department, Mr Minister, and he said, to be able to monitor and evaluate any department required the co-operation of that department and the Minister.
Now, there is no legislative pronouncement that says that your department can do A, B or C in another department, for example, like the Auditor- General can. Is it not time, because this is a very, very important Ministry, for a Cabinet directive to be issued, which will empower you as the Minister to be able to intervene in any department where you find things like corruption or maladministration or like the question we asked the President last week about findings the Auditor-General had made in a certain department and other members of the executive responsible for that Ministry not acting on it. So, I'm asking if there shouldn't be a Cabinet directive leading to legislation that empowers your Ministry to do these kinds of things that we would require to ensure that we don't have poor service delivery and poor administration. Thank you.
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY - PERFORMANCE MONITORING AND EVALUATION, AS WELL AS ADMINISTRATION IN THE PRESIDENCY: Chairperson, hon member, when I started I said no, there was no master plan to deal with the issues you have raised. But then I went into detail to explain that in the absence of that, what steps we were taking to deal with the question that has been raised and which can almost have a similar effect to what has been raised.
Regarding legislation, the issue was raised early on in 2009, as to why we didn't create legislation to deal with these matters. Our response at that time - which was correct - was this: We said it was the first time that we were implementing a system like this. If you create legislation or something that you're not sure how it is going to pan out, you're likely to consolidate mistakes within the legislative framework. It is better for us to go through experience and gather enough evidence and information to ensure that we are able to put a legislative framework in place that will be able to assist us to do the type of work which we are supposed to be doing.
We are at the stage now where it is possible for us to look at options - we are exploring that route - within the current framework and the issues you are raising to see what it is that we need to do. With regard to whether we should not have a Cabinet directive, a Cabinet directive does not have the same weight as legislation. There are enough Cabinet directives now to deal with these issues, which are sufficient for us to carry out our work.
Therefore, we have noted the point you have raised and we have explained it before. Now we are confirming that we are in that process, after having learnt the experience, to begin to see what type of issues need to be legislated for, for the work to be carried out. Thank you.
Chairperson, since May we have seen a significant increase in the incidence and in the intensity of service delivery protests across the country. Salga has recently said that a major barrier to delivery in local government is politically aligned appointment of municipal managers.
On Friday the other Minister in the Presidency released the National Development Plan, which makes specific reference to the need to buffer the civil service form political interference. Would the Minister agree that before legislation is even considered, it is time to start appointing people on the basis of their ability to do the job only and that the disastrous policy of cadre deployment in the civil service needs to be scrapped urgently? If he does agree, and I'm sure he does, what has he done or is he doing to make this happen? Thank you. [Applause.]
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY - PERFORMANCE MONITORING AND EVALUATION, AS WELL AS ADMINISTRATION IN THE PRESIDENCY: Chairperson, hon member, you would recall that the issue of municipal managers and other public servants appointed in various areas was raised by the President in this House, have been raised by the Minister of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs and is a matter which is receiving attention.
There is no policy of cadre deployment in government. All appointments are made in terms of the laws and the legislation which are there. [Interjections.] If it happens in the ANC, it happens in the ANC. It is not a government issue. If there is a review of policy, it must be the ANC which must review the policy, not government, because it does not exist in government. Thank you. [Applause.]
Chairperson, hon Minister, the absence of the master plan is now understood. I think that is the reason why the Minister of Human Settlements has decided to appoint one of the hon members here to become chief inspector of toilets, instead of using the officials who are appointed to do that particular job. What I want to know from you Minister, is that this task of monitoring ... [Interjections.]
Hon member, there is a point of order.
Chairperson, on a point of order: I wonder whether the member should be allowed to use that type of language, which is insulting; there is no member of this Parliament who is a chief of toilets. Can he explain?
I don't know what the hon member wants me to say because I have not insulted anyone. There is an hon member in this House who has been appointed to go around the country to look at toilets, and you can only look at toilets if you are ... [Interjections.]
Hon member, hon member I think you ...
I mean, that is a fact.
Yes, but you are a member of this House. I don't think you need to use that type of language. [Interjections.] Please, please. [Interjections.]
What I want to check is exactly that.
Hon member, I'm simply warning you. I'm saying that let's not use that type of language. [Interjections.] Yes, he's responsible for that type of work, designated by government or by whoever. But, then, let us not use these kinds of words.
Alright, let us not be technical. The issue is that an hon member has been appointed to do the job which is supposed to be done by officials appointed by government. The question I have, Minister ... [Interjections.]
Chairperson, it is members, public representatives, who are responsible for oversight, not officials. Officials work in the office.
Chairperson, that is not a point of order.
That is why I'm asking the hon member to continue.
I have no problem. The hon member is confused and he has got the democratic rights to be confused. [Interjections.]
Hon member, continue.
The question I want to ask is, does government not have enough officials to do the particular work of ensuring that - that work which I'm not supposed to talk about ... [Laughter.]
Order! Order, please, order!
... to make sure so that the government can be able to implement the findings ...
Hon Chair, I think the member is really out of order, because one of the tasks of the member he is referring to is to do the oversight, and ...
Hon members, please, can we let the hon member finish the question and let the Minister answer the question.
Basically, what I'm asking is that if the hon Minister of Human Settlements ... [Time expired.] [Laughter.] [Applause.]
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY - PERFORMANCE MONITORING AND EVALUATION, AS WELL AS ADMINISTRATION IN THE PRESIDENCY: Thank you very much. Hon Kganare did not get the opportunity to ask the question.
Chairperson, I think his question was flushed down! [Laughter.]
Position regarding steps to ensure that National Youth Development Agency acts in a nonpartisan manner
258. Ms S B Lebenya-Ntanzi (IFP) asked the Minister in the Presidency: Performance Monitoring and Evaluation as well as Administration in the Presidency:
(1) Whether he has found that members of the National Youth Development Agency (NYDA) took part in the march that had been arranged by the ANC Youth League (details furnished); if so;
(2) whether he intends taking any steps in this regard; if not, why not; if so, what steps;
(3) whether he intends taking any steps to ensure that the NYDA conducts itself in a nonpartisan manner; if not, why not; if so, what steps? NO4054E
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY - PERFORMANCE MONITORING AND EVALUATION, AS WELL AS ADMINISTRATION IN THE PRESIDENCY: Chairperson, firstly, let me say that, in the Public Service, public servants are not required to indicate what they will be doing during their leave days.
Secondly, it is not incumbent upon any institution of state to monitor what public servants are doing when they are on leave. They are free to embark on any activities of their choice, no matter political, social, economic or otherwise.
It should also be noted that the National Youth Development Agency, NYDA, does not have membership but employees. However, on 24 October, the NYDA publicly called on young people to attend and support the march. In this regard, no staff members attended the ANC Youth League march in their official capacity as NYDA employees. The NYDA is, therefore, not aware of any staff member who attended the march during their working hours. There is no need to take any steps as no employees attended the march on behalf of the NYDA.
It should be noted that the NYDA advised all staff members via an internal memorandum before the march that, should any member wish to attend the march, they should take leave. The NYDA leave forms specify different leave types of leave like study, annual, and sick leave. However, it does not require any employee to indicate the purpose of their annual leave.
There will be no steps taken as the NYDA has explained its position on the support of the march to my satisfaction. The NYDA indicated that they support and will support anyone or organisation that assuages the plight of young people and support of the march by the ANC Youth League was based on that principle. Thank you. [Applause.]
Chairperson, our member is, unfortunately, not here. She is not well. I wonder whether ...
Has the hon member authorised you to ask a supplementary question?
On my own right, I would wish to ask a follow-up question.
Go ahead, hon member.
Chairperson, thank you, hon Minister, for your answer. May I ask you a general question of whether or not you, as the Minister responsible for the NYDA, would support what the marchers were marching for?
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY - PERFORMANCE MONITORING AND EVALUATION, AS WELL AS ADMINISTRATION IN THE PRESIDENCY: Let me give you an opportunity to understand a few things. The challenges faced by young people in this country are serious. The call by the ANC Youth League for young people to march in demand of jobs and the betterment of their economic conditions is genuine. Therefore, that is why the NYDA and ourselves accepted the memorandum. We supported the fact that they should march to highlight the plight ... It's a general problem. Globally, young people are unable to have an economic livelihood. So, for me, there should be no problem about the issues that are being raised. [Interjections.]
Chairperson, hon Minister, I think it's unacceptable that you are not taking action against the NYDA, which should be a nonpartisan and nonpolitical agency that represents the interests of the youth. However, it is shocking that they used their R1,2 billion budget to openly support the ANC Youth League on their website and behaved in the manner which they did regarding the ANC Youth League's economic freedom march. They displayed their political allegiance publicly, hence tarnishing the image of the nonpartisan institution and openly acting as a public relations firm for the ANC Youth League. Would you, sir, reconsider immediate action in order to make sure that the officials and members of the NYDA know where to draw the line and that there is a code of conduct in relation to political activities? [Applause.]
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY - PERFORMANCE MONITORING AND EVALUATION, AS WELL AS ADMINISTRATION IN THE PRESIDENCY: In my response I have indicated that nobody went to the march representing the NYDA. However, what we have to acknowledge is that the NYDA is formed out of political activists from various political parties and various institutions and organisations in the country. The fact that a portion of them, which belongs to one political organisation of young people, participated in the march - or there might be more of them, anyway, who might have participated in the march, who are not necessarily representing the ANC Youth League - does not render them to have committed a gross misconduct in respect of their duties as people participating in the NYDA.
However, the issue of the relationship between the NYDA and youth formations of the country is an issue which we continue to deliberate on with the NYDA to see how those issues are managed beyond that. However, it should not be an issue which is necessarily linked to the march. It's a separate issue which needs to be dealt with by the NYDA itself.
Thank you very much, Chair, I'm covered.
Chairperson, Minister, you did not address one fundamental issue. I do understand when you talk about the nonpartisanship. But the issue here is why did they use the website to make sure that employees go and support this march? Is it acceptable?
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY - PERFORMANCE MONITORING AND EVALUATION, AS WELL AS ADMINISTRATION IN THE PRESIDENCY: I think the question is incomplete. I said here that the NYDA used its website to tell its staff that anyone who wants to participate in the march must take leave. [Interjections.] That's an internal memo. [Interjections.] The NYDA does not have members. It can only talk to its staff, and that is what I am saying. [Interjections.] If the NYDA puts any information in the website, that is its right. It has been established in terms of this legislation. The question is: Did they break any part of the legislation which established the agency? As far as I'm concerned for now, they haven't. On what basis would you take action around that?
Particulars regarding South African delegation to 55th Session of Commission on the Status of Women
262. Mrs J D Kilian (Cope) asked the Minister of Women, Children and Persons with Disabilities:
(1) Whether, with reference to her reply to question 1431 on 21 June 2011, she led the South African delegation to the 55th Session of the Commission on the Status of Women in New York in March 2011; if not, what is the position in this regard; if so;
(2) whether all members of the delegation attended all the sessions of the commission; if not, why not; if so;
(3) whether the trip was budgeted for in her department's budget for the 2010-11 financial year; if not, what is the position in this regard; if so, what are the relevant details?