Hon Speaker, hon members, there's been progress in the implementation of the Comprehensive Peace Agreement, since its signing in January 2005, between the government of the Sudan and the government of Southern Sudan. Some of the main highlights are that the ceasefire is generally holding well, despite a few clashes that have been reported in areas such as Malakal and Abyei.
The government of national unity and Southern Sudan have adopted interim constitutions and established various key state institutions that commenced the process of postconflict reconstruction and the development of Southern Sudan and other war-affected areas.
The Sudanese interim national assembly and the Southern Sudan Legislative Assembly have been formed. The national electoral Act was passed in July 2008, which established the national electoral commission and set the date for the Sudanese general elections for February 2010.
The governments of national unity and the Southern Sudan continue to share the oil revenue. However, notwithstanding the aforementioned progress, challenges still remain. There are some contentious issues whose resolution remains imperative for the success of the implementation process.
The demarcation of the border between the north and south is yet to be completed. The SPLM, the Sudan People's Liberation Movement, and the NCP, the National Congress Party, have indefinitely suspended consultation on the matter, but have urged the government of South Africa, under the auspices of the AU, to assist in finding a solution to these difficulties.
The slow pace of preparing for the national elections in 2010 is a matter of concern. The electoral commission has started demarcating constituencies according to the results of the fifth national population census. However, the government of Southern Sudan has rejected the census results.
The referendum law, which was to be passed in terms of the Comprehensive Peace Agreement by the beginning of 2008, has not been finalised yet. More fundamental, though, is the acknowledgement by both parties that they have failed to achieve the critical objective of making the Comprehensive Peace Agreement, that is the provision for unity, attractive to all and sundry both in the north and the south.
The African Union is a guarantor of the Comprehensive Peace Agreement and is represented on the Assessment and Evaluation Commission. As South Africa, in our capacity as chair of the AU Ministerial Committee on Postconflict Reconstruction and Development in the Sudan, we have engaged both the SPLM and the National Congress Party to encourage the effective implementation of the peace agreement.
The Sudan electoral commission has invited international observers to observe the elections, and South Africa will respond to the African Union if we are asked to be part of the team of AU observers. We will work with the parties and our international partners to encourage progress on the preparations for the 2011 self-determination referendum in the south. We will abide by whatever decision the people of Southern Sudan take, and we will assist them to prepare to take responsibility for whatever option they choose. Thank you. [Applause.]
Thank you, Speaker. Thank you, Deputy President, for your reply. In the bilateral talks held in Juba between the delegation of the Republic of South Africa, headed by you, hon Deputy President, and the delegation from Sudan, you promised to support technically Southern Sudan in preparation for the upcoming elections and referendum.
The UN's chief electoral affairs officer in Sudan, Ray Kennedy, told a news briefing that Sudanese organisers were facing a series of problems. One challenge was the complexity of the elections, with six votes running at the same time, using a range of voting methods.
In light of the hon President's promise of technical help and what Ray Kennedy said, what is government going to do to ensure that the complex electoral arrangements, with six votes running at the same time, are simplified so that the people of Southern Sudan are not confused, but are able to choose candidates of their choice? Thank you.
Thank you, hon Rev Meshoe. Indeed, the elections procedures are very complex, because each voter would be expected to vote 12 times in the north and eight times in the south. And for people who are participating for the very first time in such an election, it is quite a challenge.
We would encourage our NGOs that have accumulated experience in voter education to assist, particularly in the areas that are not that stable. You will no doubt know that there is even a section of the Sudanese population that is nomadic, and therefore doesn't stay in one place forever.
So, technically, we will try to encourage all of our institutions that can play a role in assisting to ensure that the electorate is sufficiently empowered to ensure that these elections produce outcomes that will be a true reflection of the will of the people. That's what we believe we ought to do, but I must say that the challenges are quite serious. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr Speaker. Mr Deputy President, part of the Comprehensive Peace Agreement suggests that Southern Sudan will have to decide whether to remain part of the greater Sudan or to secede.
If they decide to secede, what implications do you think this will have on stability in the region? Secondly, what kind of support can the South African government render to such a new territory, if you like? Thirdly, what is the position of Darfur in the whole equation? Thank you.
Hon members, there should only be one supplementary question, and not a number of them.
Thank you, hon Mubu, for the question. Speaker, the Comprehensive Peace Agreement indeed provides for this referendum that would be conducted in the south, on whether the south wants to go it alone or to remain part of one integrated Sudan.
We cannot pre-empt the outcomes of such a referendum. In our engagement with the governing party in the Sudan and the governing party in the south, all we can do is to make clear the pros and cons of secession.
We believe that more advantages lie in the Sudan remaining one united entity rather than for the south to go it alone. This is precisely because, as I indicated earlier, there are still very big issues to be resolved. For instance, the border between the south and the north has not been determined, and if you add to that challenge the fact that this border is likely to be drawn across oil fields, then you have an ingredient there for instability and conflict going forward.
The situation in Darfur is a work in progress. As we know, former President Mbeki led the Committee of the Wise, which made its report available to the AU on 29 October 2009. We are still waiting for the AU's assessment of the report and the steps that will flow out of the recommendations of that report. For now, all we know is that all efforts are being made to try to get all people who are not Darfurians out of that area in order to enhance peace and stability in Darfur itself, which we hope will hold. Thank you.
Thank you, Speaker. Your Excellency Deputy President, I want to know about the contentious issues, because you have said that the ceasefire agreement is holding. There is a case against the presidency of Sudan. What is going on with these contentious issues? Thank you very much.
Speaker, the real contentious issues between the north and the south include the determination of the border between the two.
Of course, there is also the challenge that the Comprehensive Peace Agreement makes provision for the establishment of one central bank. However, at the moment there's a conflict between the north and the south around this very matter, because the north follows the Islamic banking system, whereas the south follows the normal banking system that allows for interest to be charged and so on.
They have not agreed on how to address this difference by establishing one central bank with perhaps two systems: One system accommodating profit- making and the charging of interest and the other system servicing mainly Islamic investors. So that is one of the problems.
A census has been conducted which is used for demarcating the constituencies. But this census has been rejected by the south, which may mean that the elections that are planned for next year will be affected by the failure to resolve this difference.
The very fact that there has been a census conducted which is then used for demarcating the constituencies, but is rejected by the south, may mean that the elections that are planned for next year will be affected by failure to resolve this difference. Those are the contentious issues.
The matter of the charges against President al-Bashir is a matter that the Committee of the Wise, of the AU, is attending to. The AU has taken a stance that there should be a stay of prosecution to allow for the culprits to be brought to book and also for peace and stability to be attained without allowing for impunity. Thank you.
Thank you very much, hon Speaker, for your indulgence. Hon Deputy President, one of the most important issues that seem to be emanating from this conflict, according to the media, is the lack of impartiality of the judges. This is a very important aspect in resolving the conflict in Sudan.
Is there anything that the government can do to try to resolve this? There seems to be some resistance on the part of the government to what is being recommended, that is the use of foreign or outside judges to try to find an effective solution to this problem. I thank you.
Thank you, hon Ngonyama, for the question. In our discussions, the Vice President of the Sudan, His Excellency Osman Taha, indicated that - and I met him before the Committee of the Wise submitted its report - his government accepts the recommendations and that although they have reservations about certain aspects, overall they accept the report because they believe that it will serve as a basis for consolidating peace and for moving forward.
It may very well be that the part that they have reservations about is the recommendation to include foreign judges in hearing the cases against the perpetrators of violence and crime in Darfur. It may very well be that that is the source of their reservations, but overall he did say that his government accepts the report as is. Thank you.
Effect of government social assistance in encouraging economic productivity
15. Mrs Y R Botha (ANC) asked the Deputy President:
To what extent does the current basket of social assistance offered by the Government to vulnerable groups like the poor and unemployed encourage them to become active participants in all spheres of society to make them economically productive and less dependent on government social relief programmes? NO2613E
Hon Mrs Botha, the South African government has adopted a social protection package for families as an approach in its effort to alleviate poverty.
This social protection package for families in poverty includes no-fee schools and school fee exemptions; free health care services for pregnant mothers and children under the age of six, and free primary health care services for people without medical aid; social grants for the elderly in the form of old age pensions; for children in poverty, the child support grant and foster care grant; and the disability grant for people with disabilities.
There is also social relief of distress for temporary relief aimed at people in desperate need. This is paid in cash or in the form of vouchers.
There's the indigent policy which provides for free basic water and electricity in some municipalities.
There's the school feeding scheme for primary schools in poor areas and there is also the provision by social development departments in provinces, partially to fund NGOs to deliver a range of social welfare services to poor children and families, including partial care in crches and early childhood development services; prevention and early intervention services, including home-based care, counselling and linking families to the full social protection package, with protection services for children in need of care and protection, for youth in youth care centres.
With regard to the social assistance grants, it needs to be noted that the unemployed do not receive any specific grants. The mothers or caregivers of children receive their grants on behalf of the children.
The other largest groups of recipients are the aged who are out of the labour market, as well as people with disabilities who are unable to work for themselves. Therefore, it is not possible for the social assistance grants to have a discouraging effect on employment.
There's considerable evidence that shows that the social protection package for families approach is having numerous positive effects in poor households. For example, children who are recipients of social grants are shown to have higher participation in school and are, generally speaking, healthier.
All the assistance that government provides both in cash and in kind to poor households definitely assists other members of the household to seek employment. This, therefore, allows members from poor households the opportunity to become more economically productive and ultimately, to become less dependent on government's social relief programmes. I thank you.
Hon Speaker, the extension of the child support grant by government to the age of 18 years for all eligible children is widely welcomed. The question that I would like to pose is: Has government anticipated the measurable impact this extension will have on its poverty reduction targets for South Africa, as well as its impact on the socioeconomic rights of our children?
Hon Speaker, yes, indeed we have looked at the impact of this extension, and we believe that it will be positive. As I said, we've identified education as the key to lifting these households and families out of the cycle of poverty, and the extension is aimed at ensuring that these youths remain in school and attain education as well as skills, in order to serve as change agents in their families and households to prevent the transfer of poverty from one generation to the next. Thank you.
Hon Speaker, hon Deputy President, thank you for your response, and I think we have no doubt in this House that given the economic recession, there's certainly a need to provide a safety net for the poor and vulnerable in our society. However, we believe that if it goes unchecked, a culture of dependency could entrench itself.
My question is: Would the Presidency encourage all government departments to include, in their programmes, specific projects that would promote self- help and self-reliance amongst our communities? I am asking this, because I have no doubt that many people in our country would like to work and have a sense of pride, rather than rely on handouts. Thank you.
Hon Singh, I totally agree with you and yes, indeed, we would, as we are already doing under the pilot project of war on poverty, ensure that we encourage all departments to empower our people as a way of restoring their dignity, so that they don't depend on handouts and these grants. Thank you.
Hon Speaker and hon Deputy President, the ACDP is fully supportive of social welfare grants to protect the poorest and most vulnerable, particularly during this time of domestic recession.
However, this is clearly not sustainable in the long run. The creation of jobs, particularly amongst millions of relatively unskilled South Africans, remains the country's greatest economic challenge. The Medium-Term Budget Policy statement announced last week mentions a number of commendable options available to government to protect existing and create new jobs.
Of particular interest is the restructuring and recapitalisation of further education colleges with an accumulative target of 350 000 industrial and related apprenticeships and scarce learnerships having been set by the Minister of Higher Education.
Whilst my question is not directly related to social assistance, it does go to the heart of job creation and economic productivity, and it is whether this target is sufficient, given the high levels of unemployment and the shortage of skills which we are experiencing, and the fact that it is to be achieved over a five-year period. Is there scope for revision of this figure should there be a sufficient budget? Clearly the possibility ... [Time expired.]
Yes, indeed, there is scope for revision of the budget if the economy recovers fully and Sars is able to collect sufficient revenue; more will be allocated, because education is indeed one of our key priorities. Thank you.
Mr Speaker, I would like to say how much we really appreciate the extensive support that is given to the poorest of the poor, and I want to appreciate more the help that is given, particularly for education.
I am interested in knowing whether we have a tracking system through which we could determine if any of the young people who have been helped through these programmes, in the various families, actually break through to become active economic players? Wouldn't it be helpful if we had a system whereby we could keep track of this? Thank you.
Hon Dandala, I couldn't agree with you more that it would be very helpful to have a dashboard to track progress made by those who are beneficiaries of this kind of assistance, and the impact of their progress on their families and households.
Unfortunately, at the moment such a system does not exist. We do not have that kind of system; progress is tracked at a localised level, and it would indeed be important for us to have a system that can assist us to monitor that progress on an ongoing basis. Thank you. [Applause.]
Measures to ensure timeous and adequate responses by members of executive to questions
16. Mr I O Davidson (DA) asked the Deputy President:
(1) Whether he has implemented any measures and/or mechanisms to ensure that members of the executive uphold their constitutional obligation by responding to questions within the required timeframe and in an adequate manner; if so, what are the relevant details; if not,
(2) whether he will take action against members of the executive who are not upholding their constitutional obligation by failing to reply to questions within the allowable timeframe and in an adequate manner; if not, why not; if so, what action;
(3) whether there will be any consequences for members of the executive for failure to answer questions; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details? NO2616E
Thank you, Mr Speaker. Hon Davidson, as I indicated in my reply to your deputy, the hon Ellis, in this House on 19 August this year, the Rules of this House provide mechanisms for ensuring that questions to the executive are answered. As these Rules are adopted by this House and not the executive, I believe it would be up to the National Assembly to decide whether there is a need to tighten up these Rules or to strengthen them in some way.
The hon Ellis made a suggestion during that exchange in August that if Ministers did not reply to their written questions within the time limits, they should have to stand up in this House and explain why not. I indicated in my response that if the National Assembly decided to introduce this rule, I would support it. I am not aware of such a proposal having been made to the National Assembly Rules Committee.
As I indicated in my reply to hon Ellis' question, as Leader of Government Business, it is both my duty and my responsibility to ensure that Cabinet Ministers are reminded of their obligation and I do so by regularly reporting, in detail, to each meeting of Cabinet, the number of questions each Minister has outstanding. Even this morning I did that.
I do that religiously and I am quite confident that we will arrive at a point where there will be no outstanding questions to Ministers. We are, on an ongoing basis, reminding Ministers of outstanding questions. We supply them with the number of the question, the date and everything, and I'm quite confident that there will be an improvement. Thank you.
Mr Speaker, thanks to the hon Deputy President for that reply. I am very well aware of the fact that you did have that interchange with my deputy, but I address you in that capacity of the Leader of Government Business. We don't want to treat Ministers like schoolchildren and get them to stand up and tell us why. I think they have a responsibility to actually answer these questions.
Indeed, in terms of the oversight and accountability model, there's a duty to answer those questions, as indeed there is a duty on ourselves to ask those questions, exercise oversight and bring Ministers to account. It's in that context that I hope the Deputy President is aware that as of 2 November there are 510 questions outstanding, and that's a record as far as we are concerned - 510 questions! Now, you can wish them away, you can use all sorts of sophistry, but the fact is that there are 510 questions outstanding.
I'm very happy to hand over to the Deputy President a record of those questions, which I hope as Leader of Government Business he would follow up and make sure they are responded to, otherwise we may have to treat Cabinet Ministers like schoolchildren. Thank you. [Applause.]
Thank you, hon Davidson. I agree with you that it is the responsibility of members of the executive to respond to questions. That very point was made even this morning in Cabinet and as I've assured you and this Assembly, you will see improvements. I don't have the sum total of the outstanding questions because we break them down per Minister, and I've furnished each Minister with a set of questions that are still outstanding.
I hope we will not come to a point where Ministers are treated like schoolchildren, I agree with that. Thank you.
Hon Speaker, given that it is the oversight responsibility of Parliament to ask questions, and that, in terms of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa, members of the executive are accountable, collectively as well as individually, to Parliament for exercise of their powers and functions, does the Deputy President not agree that Ministers not answering questions posed by the hon members of the House are in fact undermining the very Constitution, the House and some portfolio committees, which are an extension of the House? [Interjections.]
Thank you, hon Botha. Yes, indeed I agree that if this institution is to function as our people expect it to, all of us have to meet our obligations, and indeed it is the duty of members to ask questions, which must be answered by members of the executive. We shall not in any way deliberately undermine that, hence the commitment that we will indeed see an improvement in that regard. Thank you.
Mr Speaker, I think it must be very embarrassing for the hon Deputy President to have to answer this question today, because I've never heard of a place where more than 500 questions were outstanding. But the reassuring part is that the hon Deputy President clearly is embarrassed and he's trying to do something about it, and we laud you for that.
I want to add, however, hon Deputy President, that some Ministers also do not answer their correspondence. I have reported a certain Minister to the President and that didn't help either. We're now going to issue a summons in the High Court against that Minister for not doing her work. [Interjections.]
Order, order, hon members!
Thank you, hon Van der Merwe. While that wasn't a question, I can indeed confirm that I'm embarrassed for myself here. [Laughter.] It was a comment that I can confirm. Thank you.