House Chairperson, first and foremost I must say that in South Africa we have 283 municipalities. Protests have happened in about 31 of them. Therefore, if you look at the scale of the issue, it is not as big as it has at times been made out to be, and the impression that sometimes is being given.
Having said that, since January we have managed to consolidate the information, to check what the causal factors for these protests are. We have managed, under the leadership of MECs, to visit each municipality in South Africa. Not only that, we have managed to gather information which we can say with confidence is the best information obtained in South Africa to date. That information is the one thing that has enabled us to say that this is the state of local government in South Africa.
Having done this, we then managed to ensure that we looked at the causal factors, as I have said. One of those is the issue of social distance between government at the local level and the people. On the other hand these are the issues that are the responsibility of national government in respect of housing, which comes out strongly in the demands of the people on the ground and other issues that are not the responsibility of municipalities.
Also, they raised issues of service delivery. The issue of corruption has been raised very strongly, of nepotism, as well as mismanagement of finances. Having looked at all those, we had a national local government indaba that took place last week on Wednesday and Thursday. Following that, we are now in the process of developing a turnaround strategy that will be ready by the end of the year.
I must say to the other side of the House that they have actually dismissed, almost removed, one of the finest administrators, Shanaaz Majiet. We have taken her into the department now. She is going to be playing a critical role in ensuring that South Africa is turned around in relation to what is happening. [Interjections.] What you have removed, we have taken. We are saying one man's poison is another man's meat. That is what we have done as government. Thank you very much.
Minister, it is 31 municipalities too many. We are delighted that finally the Minister has got around to visiting all the hot spots in our country. However, the issues need to be addressed. Will the Minister please inform this House, how and where the skills and the resources are going to come from to address the crisis in these municipalities? Furthermore, I would like to request the Minister that he actually familiarises himself with the issue of Majiet. Thank you.
Thank you very much, to the shadow Deputy Minister for Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, Madam Wenger. The issue of skills is something that we are attending to. As we speak, we are conducting an audit so as to check every individual employed in the municipality so that we are able to know which people have the skills, which people must be retrained, and those that cannot be retrained must give way to people who are able to do the job.
Within that context, we have a framework for deploying people in areas where there is a scarcity of skills so that we are able to move forward. We will be ensuring that we do that, and you must know that the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs is part of government. Government is going to take responsibility in ensuring that the scarce skills are being funded by government and people are there do the job. That is what we are doing. We will be presenting the report, once it is ready, to Cabinet for it to take a decision.
In conclusion, Chairperson, on the issue of Shanaaz Majiet, she is a lady who is disabled, who has been removed, not because of incompetence, but because she was not appointed by the DA. They have deployed a cadre in her place. [Interjections.] What is worse is that they have employed a man over a woman. They have removed Africans and blacks and put in whites. [Interjections.]
We have now gone back to the old in terms of the system, whereby white males are in positions of authority in this province. From our point of view, we know what history is talking about and, therefore, nobody must question our integrity and knowledge. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Minister, we understand that during this interactive process, the national and provincial departments managed to visit the 31 troubled municipalities across the country. In the spirit of ubuntu, letsema and rebuilding the nation, will it not be a good idea if the Minister and the department, through continuous interaction with the residents, discuss the issue of how they can contribute in some way to the rebuilding of the damaged structures that were burnt down? An example would be the library that was burnt down in Sakhile Township in Mpumalanga. I thank you.
Chairperson, we must thank the hon member for raising issues that had been raised. Of course, what we are looking at is that the process of turning around local government cannot be a matter of an individual; it cannot be a matter of government alone. It is a societal matter.
Our slogan says "local government is everybody's business" and that is how we must live up to that. There is no magic wand that you offer to the collective. Our responsibility is to co-ordinate ideas. Our responsibility is to ensure that ideas are implemented and we are able to move forward. In that context, the issue of whether or not people who destroyed the infrastructure of local government, who burnt properties in municipalities, are going to be involved, is a matter that must be decided by the collective in terms of what has to be done.
From our side, we want to see good citizens, based on what we are developing, the governance values that we think we must be able to rally around as a country and all of us be able to use. In that respect, we hope that the matter will be taken up there and be discussed. We can't be, as we are here, saying that this is a route that must be taken but we want everyone to contribute in building these municipalities because they are very important in terms of service delivery. They are at the coalface of our people; they are the shock absorbers of our system of governance. Thank you very much, Chair.
Mr Minister, the issue of these violent protests is well documented. In this House, you said that the people responsible are the third force and now the third force has been exposed to be the SACP. [Laughter.] So, it is well documented, if you read newspapers, but since the African National Congress is full of people who do not read, it becomes a problem.
What I want to know, Minister, is whether you have engaged the third force, which is the SACP, so that they should stop these violent protests because they said they are the ones responsible? Secondly, to us the burning of government property or any property is a criminal action. Have you engaged your colleague, the Minister of Police, to ensure that the people who, in the City Press, have admitted to have led these protests are prosecuted? [Applause.]
Well, I can see that hon Kganare has overthrown uBaba uBotha lapha [Mr Botha here] as the spokesperson on local government. [Laughter.] As regards the issue of the third force, hon Kganare, I can see that you read a lot of newspapers.
I have never ever said that protests are caused by the third force. I have been very clear that the issues are genuine. The journalist tried to ram that issue down my throat, and I refused to do that and to allow that system to be forced on me. I want to clarify this again; we believe that the issues of service delivery are genuine. Of course, there are individuals who are exploiting genuine issues of the people to take them up, which is part of the organising of individuals.
As to whether the SACP, ANC, DA or Cope is involved, I don't have information in that regard. I would ask anybody who has information to come forward and present that to me so that we are able to take it up. I have not then, hon Kganare, spoken to the SACP on the matter.
I can tell you that the Deputy Minister in the department is a member of the politburo of the SACP. He is a senior member of the SACP. Therefore, I don't think he would sabotage his own department. It is not possible. That is why I say come and present evidence, if you have, hon Kganare. We will take it and look at it on merit. Thank you very much.
Chairperson, I want to use Ms Majiet's case as an example to ask about service delivery. In the Western Cape, with about 15 000 to 20 000 officials, the DA asked only three to leave. Ms Majiet was mentioned in the Erasmus Commission on 40 accounts.
There was a disciplinary hearing coming. She was doing the dirty work of Premier Rasool and, therefore, I am very glad that the ANC is taking responsibility for this official, because she was misused and she decided to terminate her contract, which was in any case going to end at the end of November. [Interjections.] Now, my question about service delivery ...
Chairperson, on a point of order ...
Hon member, let's hear the point of order. You will complete your question after this.
Chairperson, on a point of order: Is it parliamentary for the hon Doman to accuse the relevant person of doing dirty work for Mr Rasool? [Interjections.]
We will come to that point before you end. Hon Doman, you may continue.
Chairperson, I withdraw that. She did the political dirty work of the hon Premier. [Applause.] Minister, my question is: Isn't it part of the service delivery problems ...
Chairperson, he hasn't really withdrawn the comment. He has just repeated himself.
As I have said, we will come back to it. Continue, hon Doman.
Minister, isn't it is part of the problem of these service delivery issues and the protests that the position between the officials and politicians has become blurred and a lot of them are being misused by politicians and, therefore, we have this unrest because the people see that and they don't get services? [Applause.]
On the issue of Madam Majiet, I will be happy if hon Doman can present a report. The roles are reversed. The executive now requests a report from the legislatures and this led to the conditions that necessitated the DA acting in the manner it has acted. Up until we engage on those questions, this matter will remain on the table for a long time to come.
I think it is better that we engage on it, and I think we have a very good relationship. We can find each other. We will report to Parliament once we have done that, particularly the National Assembly. [Interjections.]
Having said that, as regards the issues that you are raising of the blurred roles and responsibilities, you find that the intra and interparty conflicts that, at times, tend to undermine the integrity and the standing of the institution of local government we a challenge. We are going to be engaging, once we finalise the turnaround strategy. We want to engage with parties to talk about the governance values, what are the dos and the don'ts in the way we run municipalities so that the wrong tendencies and ways of doing things can be rejected in our system, not only by political parties but by South Africans as a whole. That is what we want to do. In that respect, we think that we are on the same page. We are singing from the same hymn book, in relation to these issues.
That is why I was saying earlier on that it is amazing that the gap between that other side of the House and this side has narrowed. We are speaking almost the same language, and I think we must continue. It means that you are good learners ... [Laughter.] [Interjections.] ... you learn about the issues of rising above petty politics. Thank you very much, Chair. [Laughter.]
Order please, hon members. Let me just come to the point of order which was raised by hon Masutha in reference to the words "dirty work" used. To accuse a member of this House of being engaged in dirty work is unparliamentary. Therefore, hon Doman should withdraw the reference to hon Rasool's dirty work.
Chairperson, I withdraw. [Applause.]
Thank you very much, hon member. The time allocated for questions has expired; outstanding replies received will be printed in Hansard.
See also QUESTIONS AND REPLIES.