Hon Chair, the Minister must be aware that the now defunct National Youth Commission and the Umsobomvu Youth Fund failed dismally in their goals of creating jobs for young people and developing skills among young South Africans, because the two organisations lacked the capacity to deliver on their mandates. Another problem that led to their demise was the fact that they were not accessible to young South Africans, especially young people in rural areas.
My question is: What is the Minister doing to ensure that the new National Youth Development Agency will deliver on its mandate and that the NYDA is accessible to all young people? Also, can the Minister give an undertaking that young people from nonpolitical organisations and those not aligned to the ruling party will also be able to benefit from the National Youth Development Agency?
Chair, the first issue is a very serious judgment call, to suggest that they failed miserably. Of course, the National Youth Commission would have failed miserably at job creation because they had no programme money; it wasn't part of their remit.
In respect of the Umsobomvu Youth Fund, the record speaks for itself, but whatever resources we have in the state can never get out there to meet the demand. In fact, every bit of analysis on youth unemployment reflects that one of the major problems is that young people don't even know where to find the information to get assistance.
The information asymmetry is a first hurdle, and the second one is to get from where they are to where the help is. It arises in respect of information and in respect of employment, entrepreneurial support, etc, which is why a very high percentage of young African men and women have never had employment in their lives.
It is a fundamental problem, and I think that institutionally, if you ask bodies such as the National Youth Development Agency to have offices in every nook and cranny in the country, you are setting them up for failure. This is because the overhead costs then supersede what they can spend on programmes.
Rather, we have to work together to ensure that, through the Thusong centres, information and assistance are available so that there can be online advice from a Thusong centre to a centralised point, and we can try and deal with an issue in that way.
I think that, as Members of Parliament, we should understand what the limitations and constraints of these institutions are and set out to help them rather than throw stones at them. Youth unemployment is the biggest challenge; it's the longest shadow that history casts over democracy in this country. We must set our minds to this issue and try and do it together. Thank you very much.
Chairperson, notwithstanding what the Minister has just said, both the National Youth Commission and the Umsobomvu Youth Fund were heavily criticised for underperforming, nondelivery and failing to live up to expectations, hence the formation of the National Youth Development Agency, NYDA.
While the ACDP accepts the fact that initiatives launched by the National Youth Development Agency may be minimal because it is in its infancy, we are nevertheless concerned that it may repeat the blunders of its predecessors if it is not monitored with diligence and there are no clearly defined expectations and outcomes.
As our young people have severely limited access to formal sector employment, too often compounded by a lack of skills, how will the NYDA address the lack of skills among the youth? How will the Presidency ensure that this new formation does not have a top-heavy bureaucracy, where most of its funding is used, and that the decisions they make are not just boardroom decisions, but decisions that are representative of the wishes and aspirations of the young people, who shall have been consulted? Thank you. [Time expired.]
Chair, I don't know whether it's absolutely correct for the hon Rev Meshoe to say "notwithstanding the facts". Perhaps the best means of accountability is for youth oversight.
Last Monday, the National Youth Development Agency, NYDA, held a stakeholder forum that was very well attended. The party that the hon Lebenya-Ntanzi represents actually didn't attend it. One of the things decided at that forum was that information centres should become the most important issue.
If one looks at the statistics of young people in South Africa, one of the biggest problems is that, as we sit here now, there are 600 000 young people out there writing their matric and only a very small percentage of them will find employment next year. Accept that as a fact, and don't blame the National Youth Development Agency for it. Try and go back into the education system; look at all manner of issues that ought to prepare young people for absorption into life after school; ask why those things are not there and try and deal with that.
Understand that as an objective constraint in society. Understand that as the biggest challenge that we must all rise to, and don't throw stones at the NYDA. Help them through this because it is an unbelievably difficult and thankless task. Thank you. [Applause.]
Chairperson, I thank the hon Minister for the profound answers to simple questions that have their own answers. One of the priorities that the ANC has had and continues to have is to develop rural areas.
The fundamental question for me is related to the fact that part of the road shows that have been held during the formation of the NYDA touched on this very issue of access, especially in the rural areas. Could the Minister outline to this august House what government has in mind in terms of ensuring access to services by the youth in rural areas, as well as its strategies in this regard? Thank you.
Chairperson, I was half hoping that the hon Johnson would extend his explanation and basically say: Hon Minister, do you confirm what I'm saying? I would have said "yes", because he has been working in this area. In fact, he led the parliamentary process that gave rise to the NYDA.
The key issue is young people in rural areas and information. The second issue is young people in rural areas who need access to rural development issues so that we don't keep denuding rural areas of talent and of people who would rather come to starve in the cities. It is about getting those balances right and I think that that requires a series of non-governmental forces at play to ensure that we strike the appropriate balances as we deal with these issues. This is fundamentally important.
I think that as a nation we actually pay too little attention to just how hard things are for young people who don't have connections and find themselves at their wit's end and at a loose end. Thank you very much.
Chairperson, it's a well-known fact that one of the reasons the Umsobomvu Youth Fund and the National Youth Commission were ineffective in their efforts to plough back into the programmes for young people and to make sure that they developed young people, was the fact that their budgets were mostly used on indabas, workshops, izimbizo and many summits. However, they were ultimately unable to deliver.
What is it that the NYDA will do differently to make sure that deliverables are indeed attained by young people, more especially by the rural young people who have largely been unable to benefit from the National Youth Commission and the Umsobomvu Youth Fund. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Chairperson, I almost said that the hon Mda did not benefit from those programmes.
You see, by law, the National Youth Commission was required to hold those indabas, do the listening and provide a listening post for young people. That is what it set out to do and that is the remit it had. If you thought that would create employment, you were creating expectations that could never be fulfilled.
I happened to be there at the establishment of the Umsobomvu Youth Fund. We secured money from the demutualisation levy and used that to finance it. Over the 10 years of its existence, it used that money very wisely, because it always had to exercise a balance between the available resources and the demand for resources.
I really believe that the annual reports of the Umsobomvu Youth Fund and the commission should be examined and we should look at these issues. You will find that the overheads of the Umsobomvu Youth Fund were actually substantially smaller than its programme spending. It didn't spend on the highfalutin stuff that the hon Mda says it did. I think it's very important that we set the record straight on these matters.
The reasons for merging the Umsobomvu Youth Fund and the National Youth Commission are now well established. We have a new agency. The only appeal I make is: Let's support it. Let's make it work. Let's take democracy into the lives of those young people who need it so that they can understand change in their own lives. Thank you.
Questions 227 and 204 will stand over because the Minister of Women, Children and People with Disabilities is not here.
Evaluation of municipalities' performance, especially those affected by service delivery protests
226. Rev K R J Meshoe (ACDP) asked the Minister in the Presidency - Performance Monitoring and Evaluation as well as Administration in the Presidency:
Whether the Government has started with the process of evaluating the performance of municipalities, especially those that have had service delivery protests; if not, why not; if so, (a) what are the outcomes of the evaluation and (b) how will such results prevent the recurrence of violence? NO2382E
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY - NATIONAL PLANNING COMMISSION (On behalf of the Minister the Presidency - Performance Monitoring and Evaluation as well as Administration): Chairperson, the discussions of the norms for monitoring and evaluation are indeed underway. As it happens, we were discussing these matters today in another room not far from here, but that is about national government. There is a different process in respect of municipalities. The first baseline of information is done in a process led by hon Minister Shiceka and the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs.
We will wait for that report and some of these issues were discussed last week Tuesday, when the President met all the mayors and all the municipal managers. Minister Shiceka and his department convened an indaba on local government last week. There are a series of issues that are being worked through. Perhaps, the question on municipal government would be better answered by hon Minister Shiceka.
It is a large and complex issue. We need to get through a number of levels and understand all manner of issues about the competencies of municipalities, the issues that he was responding to earlier on - availability of clean water, competent sewerage treatment works in all municipalities, understanding why there are service delivery protests, getting through all of those things and also looking at the competencies of managers.
As these matters stand, we are actually also involved in the process of evaluating all of the management structures in all municipalities. I think that as the processes unfold we will keep Parliament informed, but it is too early in this entire and unbelievably complex process. Thank you.
Chairperson, I wish to understand whether the Minister is suggesting that the question should stand over or whether we should carry on with it.
Chairperson, I have answered the question to the best of my ability. Anything else will be fiction. I am saying that this is a work in progress and if the question is asked three months, six months, nine months hence and all of us in government, my colleagues, the Minister responsible for Performance Monitoring and Evaluation as well as the Minister of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs are held to account in this House ... [Interjections.]
Hon Minister, I think you have clarified your point.
Well, obviously, because of the violent protests that are taking place in the country, we are all concerned about that. We have to ensure that the causes of these violent protests are being addressed satisfactorily, because what the international community sees does not give a clear or a good picture of what is happening in this country. Hence, we want to know what is being done to ensure that these violent protests come to an end.
There are also some statements that are being made by some protesters that I would like the Minister to respond to. Some of these frustrated people, for example, there was a person in Mashishini Township, who said that they believe that the only language that government understands is the language of toyi-toying. Because, if they don't protest violently then they will not get the attention they need. This might be an incorrect perception, but it has to be addressed.
That is why we cannot just wait for this report to come. In the meantime, when people are thinking like this, what is government going to do to change the thinking of such people? What is happening in our streets is unacceptable. [Time expired.]
Chairperson, this is a work in progress, I mean there are very few townships that have had service delivery protests that have not had visits by some government representatives.
Give Minister Shiceka two minutes and he will run through them very quickly, township by township. He will give you the names and the protest issues. It is not as though this is an alien thing. But there are all manner of reasons. Sometimes there are very strong and genuine reasons and sometimes the reasons are not so strong.
We have to be able to work through this and ensure that the service delivery protests or whatever the natures of the protests are, don't happen in the future. Notwithstanding the disagreement between the hon Meshoe and myself, Chair, I will not protest violently against his questions. [Laughter.]
Chairperson, to deliver services we really need good officials, Minister. It is my view that appointments must be made, because too many positions are kept open in local government. And those appointments must be made more on merit so that we can get to what I want to ask the Minister, and my question is: In this evaluation in which we should also measure productivity, will that be included in the measurement of local government?
Chairperson, the evaluation is a very broad range. Amongst the issues that are being looked at is that we are not just trying to understand whether there are vacancies or not. Because, I could take my cousin or sister and make her a municipal manager. There is no vacancy, because there is somebody whose warm body is in that box in the organogram, but she may be totally incompetent to do the job.
And so, you need a very thoroughgoing area of work and it is just one of those things, Chair, that you must allow this work to happen. I think, periodically Parliament needs to be told that the work is underway but you are not going to ripen this apple by squeezing it.
The work must continue and I think Parliament needs to know that the work is underway. Perhaps, Minister Shiceka would be able to come at a different time and talk about what the parameters of the evaluations are, because it is being done. But getting through this entire process is fundamentally important. Of course, there is a timeline and these things must be done well in time for the 2011 elections.
So, the clock is ticking against this process and I want to assure members that it pleases government no more than it pleases the opposition benches that these things are happening and that the first level services provided by local government are as infrequent and are of as poor a quality as too many people are experiencing in South Africa.
Chairperson, I thank the Minister for his response. How will the performance evaluation of the Minister be linked to the national local government turnaround strategy framework adopted at the national indaba last week? Would the Minister also agree that, although municipalities are mainly responsible for their failures, the national and the provincial departments also do not give the expected support to the local government?
Chairperson, in respect of the first question, assimilating all of the recommendations of the indaba last week, it is clearly too early to be able to answer that with any candour.
However, the issues on the operations of local government, the kind of support system, the responsibilities and powers that they have, the split between categories A, B, and C, understanding all of these trends, are covered by the evaluation. And I am sure that within the next six to eight months, Minister Shiceka would be able to put a set of recommendations about this before Parliament for its consideration.
Number of state departments employing outside consultants, and costs associated with this 229. Mr J H van der Merwe (IFP) asked the Minister for the Public Service and Administration:
(a) How many state departments employ outside consultants to assist them in executing their duties and (b) how much does the government spend per annum on employing outside consultants?