Speaker, about 52 demonstrations took place between 1 January 2009 and 30 August 2009. The number of demonstrations increased around July. There were about 29 demonstrations in July and 15 in August. Out of 283 municipalities, demonstrations took place in about 31 municipalities. The majority of these demonstrations took place in the metro of Cape Town - 11 of them. The main issues that were raised were acceleration in the development of housing, the eradication of corruption, nepotism and fraud, and the provision of basic services like water, sanitation and electricity, as well as the creation of jobs. The youth also raised the issue of skills. Another matter that was raised was the issue of the review of boundaries. People also requested that those who were arrested as a result of protests be released. Those were the demands that were raised.
You can see that these issues are issues that occur in all spheres of government. The majority of them relate to provincial and national government. These issues are not only with regard to municipalities.
Millions of rands were lost in state property where clinics, schools, council properties and councillors' houses were burned. Thank you very much, House Chairperson.
Chairperson, I am bit surprised by the answer of the hon Minister. This is because he tried initially to pass the buck to the DA. But then later he admitted that the problems were basically those of the provincial and national government, which is the government of this hon Minister.
Colleagues, we have abundant proof now of the failure of this government in respect of service delivery to the poorest of the poor. Saying there were 51 demonstrations over a few months means that there were two demonstrations per week. I want to ask the hon Minister if, after 15 years he hasn't been able to solve this issue, doesn't he think it would be better for this government to spend money on providing essential services to the poorest of the poor rather than spending millions on cars for Ministers? [Applause.]
House Chairperson, I said that most of the protests happened in the Cape Town metro municipality. [Interjections.] In these areas people were raising the issue of basic local government services that were supposed to have been delivered. So I'm not sure how Mr Van der Merwe came to the conclusion that in Cape Town these issues were based on provincial or national government requirements, because I have talked about the overall situation of what is happening. [Interjections.]
Order, hon members! Please take note of the decorum of the House.
It is quite interesting that temperatures rise when I engage on these questions. [Interjections.]
These are statistics. Nothing has been manipulated in this case. Therefore, to us it is very clear that these matters require all of us to rise above petty politics ... [Interjections.] ... and not to abuse issues of governance. This is so that we are able to focus collectively on delivering services to our people. Thank you. [Applause.]
Chairperson, of 31 municipalities, there was one protest in the Cape Town metro that was organised by the ANC, but there were spontaneous instances of unrest because of poor service delivery in the 30 ANC-controlled municipalities. Our leader and a number of us visited almost all these hot spots, and we could see that there was no service delivery. It is clear to us that the ANC is not ready to govern in those municipalities.
Mr Minister, seeing that a municipality needs skilled and experienced officials to deliver services, would you agree - and give out this message - that the ANC must start to appoint people on merit and not employ cadres and, in some instances, have positions vacant for long periods because there is no cadre available? [Applause.]
House Chair, I think my colleague the hon Doman would agree with me that the majority of these protests happened in the metro of Cape Town - the only one that is under the DA. These are facts and figures. Therefore, this can't be changed and manipulated.
On the issue of appointments, I don't think that when you live in a glass house you can throw stones. This is because if you look at this issue of appointments, the DA - where it is governing - has removed everybody who was appointed by the ANC at a senior level. The worst example is the removal of Shanaaz Majiet, a highly capable woman with a disability who ran the provincial department of local government and housing in this province. She did nothing except be appointed by the ANC. Therefore, they can't stand here and throw stones when they live in glass houses. Thank you very much, Chair. [Applause.]
Chairperson, the common theme and the predominant issues at the heart of the recent protests, which were marked by violent confrontations with the police, were local government's incompetence, cronyism and corruption, and the lack of water, sanitation, electricity and social services. The number of service delivery protests so far this year has surpassed all the service delivery protests of 2008. What we want to know, hon Minister, is why government, in many instances, seems to wait for violent demonstrations and protests to take place before they ensure that acceptable and quality service delivery takes place? Thank you.
House Chair, I think as South Africans we must really look at the situation of local government as an opportunity to unite the nation, reconcile and work together so that we don't spend time working against something. We must spend all our time working for something so that we can rally around ensuring that local government is dealt with in a particular way. Therefore, hon Meshoe, we must agree that even you must condemn violence as a form of protest. This is something that is not acceptable, no matter how legitimate the demands may be. The issue of violence must be condemned completely.
On the issue of service delivery, we are the first to say that we have delivered a lot in this country, but that we have not actually achieved what we want to achieve. We believe that together we will be able to ensure that we do more when we go forward on the issues of service delivery. Therefore, in that respect, we think we must be governed by certain values and norms - have a value system as a nation - so that regardless of whether a municipality is under the DA, the ANC or the IFP or possibly even under Cope, we agree that these values govern all of us irrespective of the party in power at a given time in those areas. Thank you very much, Chair. [Applause.]
I think I am covered, Chairperson. [Laughter.]
Minister, currently in Cape Town there are water cuts taking place in Mitchells Plain and Khayelitsha in particular. I have been deployed recently to Mitchells Plain. I just want to know if it is possible for the Minister, seeing that the DA is governing the City of Cape Town and that they have used the votes of our people and now water cuts are starting to take shape, to come to those constituencies, both Khayelitsha and Mitchells Plain, and accompany me on the issue of water cuts? [Applause.]
Hon Fransman, one of the most important things that people have been raising is that this leadership, particularly on the side of this House, doesn't respect or observe the Constitution of this country. The issue of water cuts is unconstitutional. This means that any party that cuts water is violating the highest law of the land, which is the Constitution. [Applause.] I will gladly go with you to Mitchells Plain and the areas that are affected, hon Fransman.
Chairperson, on a point of order: I think the hon Fransman does not have his facts right. No water is being cut. [Interjections.] The minimum basic allowance is being allowed and thereafter it is cut. Everybody is entitled to water in the City of Cape Town - free basic water.
Order! That was not a point of order, hon Trollip. Hon Minister, continue.
Thank you very much, House Chair. You can see that when we speak, temperatures rise; emotions run very high. [Interjections.] What is important then is that we are saying we will be able to go with you to see what is happening. But what we are not going to allow in this country is that any party abuses its power to violate the Constitution. We will act against those and act decisively. Thank you very much, Chair. [Applause.]
Chairperson, on a point of order: In the previous question, the hon Minister was not given an opportunity to answer item (c), namely: What was the estimated loss suffered by the state during this period?
Order! Well, probably when he deals with the other questions he will use some latitude to deal with that particular issue. I have already moved on to the next question, and it is still him on the platform.
Outcome of forensic investigation into contract with construction firm
1. Mr P J Groenewald (FF Plus) asked the Minister for Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs:
(1) Whether he will announce the result of a forensic investigation into a contract with a certain construction firm (details furnished); if not, why not; if so, when;
(2) whether he will make a statement on the matter? NW477E
House Chairperson, the department has conducted an assessment of the capacity and capability of the departments of local government at provincial level. We looked at the structural capacity of the organisations, the capability of individuals employed and the systems that are utilised in municipalities. What came out very clearly is that in the provinces, 90% of the budget on average is taken up by the departments of health, education and social development. So you are left with 10% that you can play around with. Of this 10%, 3,5% is utilised for local government. This tells us that there is underresourcing.
The other thing we discovered is that only 2% of employees are above the level of deputy director. What this tells us is that there is incapacity in terms of skills and the knowledge base. We also discovered that there was no monitoring and oversight capability for municipalities in provinces. Therefore, we are involved in a programme of capacitating provincial government departments that are dealing with local government to ensure that there are good systems and that institutional arrangements are good. Departments of local government particularly must be regionalised so that they can undertake their tasks and responsibilities. And, in that respect, also develop the law in terms of sections 139 and 154 of the Constitution in order for people to intervene. These are the measures we are taking to ensure that provinces play their appropriate role in supporting municipalities. Thank you very much, House Chair.
Agb Voorsitter, ek wil vir die agb Minister s dat ek dink dat hy die kat aan die stert beet het. Hy het nie die vraag verstaan nie. Die vraag wat ek vra is in verband met 'n forensiese ondersoek wat gedoen is in die Stadsraad van Matlosana. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[Mr P J GROENEWALD: Hon Chairperson, I want to tell the hon Minister that I believe he is missing the mark. He did not understand the question. The question I am posing relates to a forensic investigation that was done in the Matlosana City Council.]
The investigation has been completed, hon Minister. The forensic report is there. In fact, it was completed in 2007. But they don't want to reveal the outcome of the investigation. It cost the taxpayers of Matlosana, which includes Klerkdorp, Orkney, Stilfontein and Hartebeesfontein, more than R1 million for the forensic report. Now the hon Minister comes here and tells us about what is going on in the province. I know that the North West is a big problem for you. But if you can solve this problem, there will be great progress in your efforts to reduce problems in the North West. So, with great respect, I did not receive an answer.
My question is: Why is the report not revealed even to councillors and to the public? The taxpayer's money was used in this regard, and the Constitution says that we have the right to information and to the findings of that report. Can I get an answer on that, please? Thank you.
House Chairperson, this is the first this matter of Matlosana has come to us, as we have just heard it from the hon Groenewald. What is important is that we appreciate the fact that Members of Parliament are able to come forward on misdemeanours that are happening in their own areas. This is a good thing and a good start because all of us must be able to come forward, rise above petty politics and deal with issues of good governance. What we can promise we will do is that we will go and get the information you are requesting to ensure that we can give you answers to the questions you are raising.
But what is important is that we want to ensure that there is transparency and openness in local government - this is so that when you bring light, darkness disappears. People will not have an opportunity to do things we think are wrong. We are going to follow up on the matter, and we will come back to you, hon member.
Mr Chairperson, on a point of order: These questions are tabled well beforehand. The Minister knows exactly what the questions are. He shouldn't then come to the House and by way of answer indicate that he will investigate. He should have come to the House with the answers.
Hon Minister, I think that is a point taken. I think in future you must remember that tabled questions are known. But we will obviously give you the opportunity to come back to the House and give a definite answer to the question because it was sent to the office for response.
Chairperson, hon Minister, the DA is of the opinion that the Minister and his department are not doing enough to stop these kinds of unscrupulous practices. Has the Minister considered a blacklist that could be implemented as a matter of urgency? This should then be circulated to all spheres of government so that we can stop further developments like that. And could the Minister please tell us how many other municipalities are being investigated for the same behaviour? Thank you.
House Chair, on the issue of municipalities that are being investigated, we have been involved in an extensive process of assessing all municipalities. We will ensure that we have a report on all municipalities by the middle of October. If the question you are raising can be asked at that time, we will be able to give you an accurate response in terms of municipalities that are being investigated at this point in time.
The most important thing to us is to ensure that we come up with appropriate solutions to specific problems and challenges that are experienced in various municipalities. We hope that in so doing, we will be able to provide information about the state of municipalities to this House once that process has been concluded. Thank you.
Chairperson, with these forensic investigations, we often find that councillors are the people that transgress. I must commend this Minister. He has taken a very strong stance on corruption and maladministration by councillors. I want to ask the Minister whether he agrees that parties should discipline their councillors and not wait for the laws of this country to kick in, and that they should act and intervene when their members transgress.
Thank you very much, hon Doman. In fact, that's what I have said. I said that for us to move forward in South Africa, we need a value system - something that binds us. As you have been saying in respect of corrupt situations, when there is a "corruptee", there is always a corrupter. This means that even members of civil society - not only in terms of communities, but also in terms of businesspeople - must be discouraged from getting involved in issues of corruption. This is because it takes two to tango in these cases. [Applause.]
Therefore, we are saying that all political parties must rally around this. As we do the assessments, hon Doman, we will look at what the value systems must be that must drive governance in South Africa so that all of us can sing from the same hymnbook going forward. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Chair, I want to ask the hon Minister if I can get a commitment from him on a date when he come back to us on this matter, because the report has been available since 2007. If he goes to his office now, he can phone the executive mayor ... Well, if I look at the time, I suppose he has gone home already. [Laughter.] He can phone the offices ...
Chair, I think it is really unfair when the Minister has made a commitment in the House that he will come back with a report, that the member then stands up and says he must go to his office and bring the report here. It is very unfair, and it is not within the Rules of Parliament.
Order! There is nothing unfair about that, hon Chauke. Let the question be concluded.
Chairperson, I can say to the hon member that Christmas is on its way; don't worry. [Laughter.]
Can I get a commitment from the hon Minister on when I will get the answers to my questions, please?
House Chairperson, what we can say is that we will be able to give the report to the hon member very soon. [Interjections.] [Laughter.] This therefore means that as soon as it is practically possible he will get the report. Thank you very much.
Particulars regarding (i) the transformation of traditional authorities in line with enabling legislation; and (ii) the receipt of financial grants from government
70. Mr M Nonkonyana (ANC) asked the Minister for Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs:
(1) Whether his department has embarked on a nationwide programme of transforming traditional authorities in line with the enabling legislation; if not, why not; if so, how many (a) traditional councils have been transformed so far and (b)(i) traditional leaders and (ii) traditional councillors have received training in line with the national programme of support that was launched by his department in 2007;
(2) whether traditional councils receive financial grants from the Government; if not, why not; if so, what amount was budgeted for this purpose in the 2009-10 financial year?