Mr Speaker, Cope feels very strongly that our country has abandoned and wilfully squandered the moral high ground that we, as a country, occupied so proudly after 1994. The President of our country has let us down. He has let Africa and the world down. Our destiny, that looked so promising until a few months ago, now faces a universal erosion of goodwill.
On behalf of Cope, I move the draft resolution printed in my name on the Order Paper as follows:
That the House -
1) has no confidence in the President of the Republic; and
(2) in terms of section 102(2) of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa, 1996, passes a motion of no confidence in him for his failure to live up to the expectations of a broad spectrum of South Africans.
A few examples demonstrate the flagrant violation of the oath that he took when he occupied this highest office. It is common knowledge that the President has failed this nation by setting a poor example through his repeated risky sexual behaviour, thus weakening the crucial fight against HIV and Aids.
He has failed to exercise any leadership over his Cabinet, some of whom continue to send conflicting messages of what is acceptable, ethical and moral behaviour.
He has failed to act against approximately 2 000 public servants who are alleged to have stolen more than R650 million from the public purse.
Despite having the Ginwala commission's report available to him, he failed to exercise good judgement and appointed a man of dubious record and poor capability as the National Director of Public Prosecutions.
He has failed to lead on issues of accountability to this Parliament by not declaring his assets and liabilities on time, and only doing so eight months later and under public pressure.
This sad reality, rather than any politicking or having a vengeful vendetta against the President, is why we are bringing this motion before this House. The President swore at his inauguration:
I commit myself to the service of the nation with dedication, commitment, discipline, integrity, hard work and passion.
Speaker, the President has, by his own wilful conduct and dangerously flawed judgement, lost the confidence of this House and the nation. He should do the honourable thing and resign his office. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr Speaker, Deputy President, hon members, from the outset, let me restate the historical fact that the real Congress of the People is the ANC. [Applause.] As a majority party, it is, therefore, through the ANC that the people speak of their representation in the executive. At our 52nd conference, at Polokwane in December 2007, delegates overwhelmingly elected Comrade Jacob Zuma as the President of the real Congress of the People, the ANC. We did not, at that time, release any white smoke into the Limpopo University chimneys, because we were very clear in our minds that we had not elected a pope, but a human being who has human strengths and human frailties, like all of us. [Applause.]
On 22 April 2009, 11 650 748 voters - what we consider to be a broad spectrum of South Africans and nearly 70% of the electorate - voted for the real Congress of the People, the ANC, led by President Zuma, to be the government of this great Republic. [Applause.]
One million more people voted for the ANC in 2009 than in 2004, and yet, today, the arrogance of a mere 30 people in this House is trying to tell us that millions of our people were wrong. The collective minds of these millions of our people are convinced that our great movement, the ANC, the real Congress of the People, and its President, are fit and proper to run this great Republic.
This motion goes contrary to the recent findings of the Ipsos Markinor survey of February 2010, which had the following to say:
At the start of 2010, President Zuma is in an enviable position in terms of his public rating. He begins the year with 77% of the population agreeing that he is doing his job fairly well or very well.
[Applause.]
This is the highest rating for a President since May 2006 ...
This means that the President of the real Congress of the People, the ANC, at 77%, is more popular than the ANC itself, at 70%.
As the ANC we've never wavered from our understanding that each president of the ANC - from Rev John Langalibalele Dube to Jacob Gedleyihlekisa Zuma - would come and go, but each one of them would leave an indelible mark on the character of this great movement, responding to the particular challenges of their tenure and the challenges of the stage of our national democratic revolution.
I am, therefore, very surprised that we are gathered here today to entertain the views of a mere 30 people who are driven by motives other than those of honesty, particularly with regard to democratic majority rule. I venture to say that, had we been alive to the current challenges of our communities, and were it not for the permissiveness of our constitutional democracy - for which we, the real Congress of the People, the ANC, take full credit - such a motion would not have been tabled.
As we deliberate this issue, we are inadvertently being made partners in throwing a lifeline to an entity that is drowning under the inconsistencies of its own power hunger. [Applause.] As I speak, I do not know who of the three - you know who they are - my eyes should be fixed on, because my action may be misunderstood to mean my endorsement of one character, as opposed to the other. [Laughter.] [Applause.]
This is the gravity of their leadership squabble that I'm talking about that characterises Cope. This House is being roped in to being fellow sojourners on a journey of 30 disgruntled members who have not come to terms with the realities of democratic politics in South Africa, of winning and losing.
I rise not because I'm a Member of this Parliament who's expected to defend the integrity of our President. I rise because many of us are very surprised that the proposers have entered a motion of no confidence in the President, knowing very well that their motion will not see the light of day, but that they will get their cheap publicity all the same. [Applause.]
If we, hon members of this august body, do not rise, this new tendency to grandstand will continue unabated. On two previous occasions we have seen the same group of people using this Parliament for cheap publicity.
Firstly, when they proposed a candidate to contest the Presidency of the Republic, they knew very well that it would be easier to win Powerball and Lotto than the Presidency. [Applause.]
Secondly, when they tried to precipitate a crisis by walking out of this Chamber last month, because they disagreed with the ruling of the Deputy Speaker, they may have got their six cents' worth of the media spotlight, but the wheels of democracy continue to grind on, thanks to the political parties that stayed behind and fulfilled their mandate which they have been given by our electorate.
The track record of Cope - from Polokwane, to their internal problems, to the current motion - seems to border on anarchy. Cope has displayed characteristics of being a party of failures.
One, Cope failed to launch itself as a party in the hastily organised conference in Bloemfontein on 16 December 2008. Two, Cope cannot create unity even amongst its arbitrarily self-appointed leadership. Three, it deceived the electorate by promising to have a manifesto, but did not even have a policy upon which to base that manifesto. [Applause.] Four, the party deceived the electorate by promising them that they would be the next government, but later changed their tune by claiming they were going to be the next official opposition. [Applause.] Five, they claimed that they would be an effective opposition ...
Speaker, I rise on a point of order: The hon Minister, who happens to be the Minister of Justice and Constitutional Development, should well know that we could not have participated in an election without the necessary constitution as an organisation. Secondly, we have registered our name as The Congress of the People, Cope ...
Hon member, that is not a point of order. Please take your seat. Continue, hon member.
Five, they claimed that they would be an effective opposition, but the deputy leader of Cope is never seen in the corridors of Parliament, and their leadership has become moribund.
South Africans have voted and they have expressed a vote of no confidence in Cope. I say this because this group has, on two occasions since Polokwane, in 2007 and in April 2009, dismally failed to get political recognition through democratic processes and is now using this House to win their vote.
Hon Minister, there's a point of order.
Mr Speaker, will the hon Minister take a question?
Hon Minister?
I don't belong to the youth wing of Cope. [Applause.] I've observed that the timing of this motion is not accidental. There are three clear indications that the timing was carefully considered.
Firstly, misled again by some sections of the media that hyped up their earlier existence, Cope labours under the illusion that the ANC-led alliance is about to unravel. This will never happen. Secondly, we have noted that, after trying to postpone the inevitability of an elective conference since 16 December 2008, the youth wing is pushing them for an elective congress. Thirdly, after a long courtship, there's now a mooted multimatrimonial relationship led by the DA.
Let me highlight a few examples of why we, the real Congress of the People, the ANC, and the majority of South Africans, think that our President is a fit and proper person to lead this country, and that the motion of no confidence is a spurious allegation.
Our President facilitated the end of the Burundian conflict, after taking over as a facilitator from our iconic former President Nelson Mandela, who, in turn, took over from Mwalimu Nyerere.
On 12 December 2009, President Jacob Zuma was awarded the title of Best African President for his role in the liberation of our country and on the African continent at the African Consciousness Media Leadership Awards. [Applause.]
Two weeks ago, Her Majesty the Queen of Great Britain, invited our President on a state visit as one of two world leaders who are invited annually by her. [Interjections.]
Order, hon members! Continue, hon Minister.
Except for one racist tabloid indiscretion by one Stephen Robinson of the British Daily Mail, among many media in the UK, this state visit was declared among the most successful state visits ever undertaken by a South African President. [Applause.]
In December last year, at the Copenhagen Climate Change Conference, our President, together with leaders from the United States, China, Brazil and India facilitated the Copenhagen Accord which has now been accepted by the African Union.
As I speak today, 18 March 2010, the President is currently facilitating the Global Political Agreement in Zimbabwe, and on his shoulders rest the hopes and aspirations of all Zimbabweans. [Applause.]
Our government today, under his leadership, has been restructured so that all Ministers are monitored on the basis of outcomes-based performance agreements.
Allow me, as I conclude, to borrow words of wisdom from the Holy Scriptures, and quote Matthew chapter 7:
Do not judge, so that you may not be judged. For with the judgment you make you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Why do you see the speck in your neighbour's eye but do not notice the log in your own eye? Or how can you say to your neighbour, "Let me take the speck out of your eye," while the log is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your neighbour's eye.
I'm highlighting this fact so that those who counsel us on the Good Book should know that much more is expected of them.
This motion by Cope has, therefore, the wrong target. It should be a motion of no confidence in the leadership of Cope. [Applause.]
Order! Order! Hon members, order! Please take your seats, hon members. Order! Hon member, on what point are you rising?
Speaker, it is a special order because when the Minister ...
Hon member, please take your seat. You are out of order!
Speaker, it is ironic that we have this debate of no confidence less than one year into President Zuma's term of office. There is obviously clear opposition to this from the ANC. I think, however, you protest too much. When you decided that you had lost confidence in President Mbeki, you had no hesitation in expressing this by recalling him. Hon Radebe, you forgot the millions of voters who voted for him.
This is precisely the danger of having a president who is not directly elected. This is, in fact, to the detriment of our democracy because this fact allows the President either to hide behind the support of his or her party or, in turn, for the party to claim its support for itself and recall the President at a whim.
President Zuma's actions or lack thereof have damaged the people's faith in his ability to lead South Africa properly. I know that it is unreasonable to expect any public representative to enjoy the full confidence of the entire citizenry all the time. Such a state of affairs is not possible in the real world and highly unlikely in South Africa. However, it is reasonable to expect that a public representative, and the President in particular, should enjoy the broad support of the public, based on the expectation that he has both the experience and the wisdom to make the right decisions and in turn to articulate a vision and provide the necessary leadership to give life to that vision.
Somlomo, kuba ilizwe lonke belithembele kwezi zinto, ingaba loo nto ayithethi ukuba uMongameli wesizwe akaphumelelanga ukwenza njengoko bekulindelekile kusini na? (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)
[Speaker, seeing that the whole country was depending on these things, doesn't this mean that the President of the country has failed to deliver as expected?]
We must not conflate the litany of policy programmes with purpose and direction. Policies are important building blocks of any democracy, but, unless they are held together by a set of coherent principles and values that mirror the kind of society our Constitution envisions, they are undermined from the first principle and work against that objective.
The President has simply made too many poorly considered decisions that compromise good governance. He has also appointed people to key positions as a form of political reward for loyalty to himself and his personal and political travails. These have not always been in the best interests of the government and they do not always represent commitment to excellence.
More pertinently, the President has failed to provide leadership on matters of principle and to provide guidance and direction. The President says he implements the collective decisions of the ANC. Frankly, this is not good enough for South Africa, because the ANC is failing to give guidance to itself, let alone the country.
Leadership is not about appeasing and compromise, for all its virtues can easily be distorted down to a level at which no hard decisions or direction are possible at all. This has often been the effect of the President's silence and also of his failure to identify what principles are at stake and how best to protect them.
The President's embracing of the Mbeki era's policy of silent diplomacy regarding Zimbabwe, which is classical appeasement, is a case in point. The President misled this country into believing that he would adopt a different approach to the octogenarian "President for Life". He, too, has been seduced by Mugabe's wily ways.
This is not the worst, though. The fact that he agitates for the lifting of targeted sanctions against Mugabe and his acolytes and tacitly supports the latest harebrained scheme of indigenisation of foreign companies, sends disinvestment shivers down the spines of potential foreign investors who hold the key to economic growth and job creation in South Africa.
This spineless behaviour also places all South African investments in Zimbabwe in jeopardy and begs the question: Whose interests does the President represent - the citizens of both Zimbabwe and South Africa, the South African investments in Zimbabwe, the reputation of SADC, or those of Mugabe and his generals who have violated almost every law and human right conceivable?
This pandering to a decrepit despot is also costing South Africa jobs, as Zimbabweans compete in their millions for scarce job opportunities in South Africa. My prediction is that President Zuma will return from his current visit having achieved nothing or very little with regard to salvaging the Global Political Agreement, GPA, that has been abrogated by Mugabe.
The President has also shown no appetite to deal with his chief cheerleader, Mr Malema, because of his debt of gratitude stemming from Polokwane. I know you will all shout Mr Malema's praises again today, like you did yesterday in the Human Rights Day debate, but I don't expect you to do anything else because of the position of your ANC President, who also happens to be the President of South Africa.
Minister Pandor was correct yesterday when she said that all murders are to be condemned, but the regular murder - one every 36 hours - of South African farmers and farmworkers, black and white, is beyond the pale. The incendiary and inciting song that exhorts the killing of "rapist farmers" should not be tolerated. Both Mr Mantashe and especially the President are in dereliction of their duty by condoning this call to arms in our constitutional democracy. Their and Malema's hands are being stained by the blood of these defenceless victims who look to them to guide and protect them in their own country.
Another issue of major concern that erodes confidence in the President is his personal legal quandary that has been all but expunged by people who appear to have been compliant when they should have held the independent judicial line. The ANC policy of cadre deployment, which the President endorses and applies with alacrity, especially in the realm of the judiciary and the Judicial Service Commission, has no place in our society, let alone in this venerable realm.
The President's failure to unambiguously take a principled position on the participation by his party's investment arm, Chancellor Houses' a partnership with Hitachi, is reprehensible. Apart from the fact that the Deputy President told this House that he was unaware of the deal, the President has not done or said anything about this since being informed thereof. It confirms the adage: There are none as deaf as those who do not want to hear.
Speaking of not wanting to hear, it is becoming abundantly clear that the President and his VIP protection unit, the police, some metro police units and other arms of the security services are adopting a zero-tolerance attitude towards law-abiding citizens and to any form of dissent and other guaranteed human rights.
This is the antithesis of their constitutional role. We do not want to return to a police state. We want to be protected by these services, not bullied, beaten, raped, detained and even murdered, as has recently occurred in Knysna and in other well-documented cases.
Some incidences involving the President himself confirm that this situation is out of control, and this has deepened the loss of confidence in the President. Let me refresh your memories about a few incidents.
Firstly, on 16 March 2010, there was the assault on Eyewitness News photographer Tshepo Lesole by the President's VIP unit.
Secondly, on l0 Feb 2010, there was the arrest and detention of Chumani Maxwele, a University of Cape Town student on a training run, who was arrested at gunpoint. His hands were tied behind his back, his head was covered with a black bag and he was subjected to arrest without charge. He was insulted and intimidated for 24 hours and his home was ransacked, all for allegedly gesturing at the President. Thirdly, on June 2008 - note when this took place; the President was not president then - a VIP officer on Jacob Zuma's armed convoy fired three shots at the vehicle of an 84-year-old motorist who was deemed a threat.
Ndiqinisekile ukuba abantu abaninzi abalapha kule Ndlu namhlanje babephila kabuhlungu ngaphambili phantsi kwengcinezelo yamapolisa, kodwa namhlanje siyayamkela ingcinezelo yamapolisa. [I am sure that the majority of the people in this House today unfortunately lived under police brutality before, but today we accept that very same oppression.]
These are but a few of the issues and are coupled with the President's own personal challenges, not least of all the fact that he rejected the call for wealth audits of senior politicians and public officials even though there exist mechanisms and procedures to declare their interests, and he himself only made such declarations under extreme public pressure, eight and a half months after the deadline.
Die President s dat hy 'n teenkorrupsiekommissie aangestel het, maar tot nou toe is daar geen strategiese raamwerk vir die kommissie se werksaamhede nie. Ek wonder of dit die oneerbare en vrugtelose uitgawes onder die kabinetslede sal stop. Ek glo nie. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[The President is saying that he has appointed an anticorruption commission, but up to now there has been no strategic framework within which the commission should operate. I wonder whether this will bring an end to improper and fruitless expenditure by members of the Cabinet. I don't think so.]
The DA, therefore, supports this motion of no confidence brought by Cope. I am all too well aware that this will, in all likelihood, not lead to the President's impeachment, owing to the fact that some opposition parties will be swayed either to abstain or to vote against it.
This watershed debate is like the metaphorical ladder in a stocking: It starts as a small hole and ends up running through your divided government. In the words of Lincoln, and I quote: "A house divided against itself cannot stand." I thank you. [Applause.]
Hon Speaker, Your Excellency the Acting President, hon Ministers and hon members, I think we must get this right, in that it is important that the motion of no confidence be debated in this House. The IFP does not support the motion, but we support Cope's right to bring it because it is an important exercise in democracy. Debates and decisions about the President ought to be made in this House and in this House alone.
It is regrettable that the President has not appreciated the importance of the debate by gracing it with his presence. It is also regrettable that our Rules have not yet been brought into compliance with the Constitution and best parliamentary practices requiring the voting on this motion by secret ballot, as is the case in the election of the President.
Today we assert how the President and his Cabinet serve at the pleasure of the members of this House, who have the ultimate right to fire both, and the duty to do so when necessary. If we fail to use the powers the Constitution gives us to hold the President accountable for his shortcomings, we become equally responsible for them, because the vote of no confidence empowers us all to rectify problems. This debate should be part of such a process.
As I stated in the debate on the state of the nation address, I accepted our President, warts and all, and pledged my personal support to ensure that he does not fail because the country cannot afford it. The times are too dire, the challenges too great and the risks too frighteningly high for us to undermine the Commander-in-Chief at this juncture. But he must perform, and perform soon. [Applause.]
This debate offers the opportunity for us all to qualify our support for the President by defining what we expect of him, failing which a subsequent vote of no confidence may have a different outcome. At this juncture we pledge our support to the President, giving him the benefit of the doubt after only nine months in office. We will tightly monitor his progress, especially in respect of his stewardship in getting us out of the economic crisis and building a competitive new industrial base, while creating employment and addressing crime and corruption.
We want to see firm and immediate action, starting with this nonsense of hate speech which he has allowed in his ranks. The singing of the "Kill the boer" song, or the rapist songs, destroys whatever has been achieved by way of reconciliation. It destroys Madiba's legacy, which is also our joint legacy. I'm not saying that our history should be swept under the carpet. I think there is a difference between these songs, for instance: Hhayi, usizi lomuntu omnyama e-Afrika. Zonke izizwe zisibeka phansi kwenyawo. [Ihlombe.] [Oh, what a shameful situation a black man finds himself in, here in Africa. All nations are keeping us under their feet.] [Applause.]
As time goes by, we may reassess the situation, although I hope this will be not the case. It could be that the next motion of no confidence may be moved by me, if the President does not live up to the expectations that history has gathered around his person.
This occasion should also prompt us to reflect again on how much better off the Republic would be if the offices of head of state and head of government were to be split into a president who does not get involved in the daily work of the government - who is not in the belly and dust of politics - and a prime minister who governs, as contemplated in a pure parliamentary system. I remember I tried to introduce this, but in fact it was rejected out of hand.
In fact, it is likely that the Presidency will continue to become the lightning rod on which the growing tensions of our society will concentrate as long as the status quo remains, and its undermining will weaken the Republic. A vote of no confidence passed on a prime minister, as head of government, would not weaken the Republic if the president, as head of state, remained unaffected by it. After all, he is our President. But, this dual role of head of state and head of government will continue to make him vulnerable as long as this remains the case. I thank you, Mr Speaker. [Applause.]
Mr Speaker, the ID is not taking this vote of no confidence in the President lightly, because he has been elected as the President of this country in a democratic election. However, he was not elected to do whatever he wants to do with impunity and bring the country into disrepute. The public has been extremely patient, but are also now tired of hearing the regular apologies coming from the President.
Speaker, I want to say to the President in his absence that we will no longer be misled by your smile and your fake apologies. South Africans deserve a President who can uphold the dignity of his office, inspire us and give us hope.
There are many ANC people on this side who agree with this motion in private, but who are more afraid to stand up for the Constitution. I know it. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr Speaker, Deputy President and hon members, last year in this House we asked the President about the political connections of companies called Clident 1 and Clident 445 (Pty) Ltd, which had an interest in the sale of Vodacom shares by Telkom. To date, he has not responded.
This year, we asked the President in this House about the massive financial benefit for the ANC from the Eskom-Hitachi deal, which will be partly funded with unpopular tariff hikes and a World Bank loan. Again he failed to respond. Now we are being rushed to agree to a huge World Bank loan for Eskom, just as was the case with the arms deal.
One begins to wonder whether the recent electricity crisis was purposefully staged to create a state of panic, to ensure the approval of this massive Eskom project for the benefit of the ruling party. Meanwhile, the majority of citizens of this country are in a state of hopelessness.
The UDM does not have confidence in the ANC and its leadership in government; it is no better than the Mbeki administration. This looting must come to an end. I'm reminded of the German expression that the troughs haven't changed, only the pigs feeding from them.
Nikezelani ngale mali niyibuyisele kwiSebe lezeMali kulungiselelwe abantu abahluphekayo. [Kwaqhwatywa.] [Give this money back to the Department of Finance to cater for poor people.][Applause.]]
Hon Speaker, it is always better in politics to play the ball and not the man. That is not what we have seen today. The hon President is a very loyal party man. All decisions are taken jointly, whether by the national executive committee, the NEC, the national working committee, the NWC, or the top six. However, it was Mr Zuma who was elected by this House to become President. He is the President of the Republic and nobody else, and that places on him a number of serious responsibilities.
Section 83(b) of the Constitution instructs the President, as the President in his own right, to uphold, defend, and respect the Constitution. The President must do so and not the NEC or the top six in the ANC; he must do so.
This dictates that the President, regardless of party loyalties, should defend the nation and the Constitution under all circumstances. That is his responsibility. He should set the example and should be the first, for example, to reprimand Mr Malema in public for incitement to violence and advocacy of hatred. But he remained silent, and that was a mistake. Did the ANC not say, "Together, we can do more"? Yes. Who? The ANC only, or all South Africans? But, they allow Mr Malema to incite hatred and violence.
The FF Plus will support this motion of no confidence. However, the important point of today's debate is not the fact that this motion will be defeated by the majority - that's why you are the majority - but the fact that today's debate, this motion of no confidence, was brought by Cope and not the DA.
That is the real importance of today's debate, because we must understand in our politics that if a motion like this is ever to succeed in South Africa in future, it will be brought by a party like Cope, representing the majority at that stage, and not by the DA, with its progressive core. That is the reality of South Africa. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]
Mr Speaker, I've grown up to respect the hon Mangosuthu Buthelezi, but I stand here to disagree totally with the proposition he put forward here, and I will tell you why.
The vote of no confidence in President Zuma as proposed by Cope is fatally flawed. The claim that the President has failed to live up to the expectations of a broad spectrum of our society is nothing more than a desperate grab at publicity by a bunch of media-hyped people. It provides no specificity on what these expectations are.
Mr Speaker, on a point of order: I believe it is improper parliamentary language to refer to the Members of Parliament of Cope as a bunch of desperate people. Will the Minister please withdraw that statement immediately?
Hon Minister, please withdraw.
... by a group of people who have been hyped up by the media. [Interjections.]
Order, hon members! Order! Hon Minister, withdraw and continue with the debate.
Speaker, I withdraw "bunch" and "people hyped up by the media". I emphasise that I withdraw nothing more.
The vote of no confidence provides no specificity on this expectation. Neither does it provide any evidence of the purported claims. Hon members, for us to debate what it is that we are ...
What point are you rising on, hon member?
Mr Speaker, I am trying to look at Rule 69. Can we read it?
I will rule on that point after I have looked at the Hansard.
Mr Speaker, could I ask a question?
Minister, are you willing to take a question?
Mr Speaker, with respect, I would rather that the Minister and I ...
Ngenzeni kuwe, Xhamela? [What did I do to you, Xhamela?] [Laughter.]
Nothing! [Laughter.]
Order, hon members! Order! Hon Shenge, after this session I am going to act as a mediator. [Laughter.] Please continue, hon Minister.
My father, Shenge, I will tell you why we disagree. This is a frivolous motion, and it is an outright waste of our time. It begs the question: Why are we even debating this? Why do we come here and even put it on the Order Paper? Importantly, how do we as Parliament deal with such frivolity in future?
I need to re-emphasise the point that the hon Mulder was trying to make here: The basis of this motion is section 102(2) of the Constitution, which requires, as hon Minister Jeff Radebe has indicated, that the majority of this House sitting here must pass this particular motion.
Therefore, for this motion to pass, we need 50% plus one. It should be very obvious to anyone, especially to the hon Mulder - who is numerically literate - that for this motion to pass it must get the support of the ANC. Nothing outside the ANC will get the 50% that you need, because, as we sit here, the ANC is the majority party with 65,9% of the seats in this House. How could Cope ever have imagined that they could carry this on 7,4%?
For those of us who are numerically challenged, it is important to note that, at this point in our debate, the Cope motion can only, at best, be supported by 25%, even if they were to combine all those members whom they have lobbied. [Interjections.]
Hon De Lille, you can postulate outside. There is not a single member of the ANC who would have supported this nonsense of a motion. [Interjections.] [Applause.]
Order! Order!
I dare you to stand up and say that! There isn't a single one! [Interjections.]
Order, hon members! Order! Order!
Mr Speaker ...
Please take your seat, hon member. Those in the gallery are invited only to observe, not to participate. [Laughter.] Please continue, hon Minister.
Mr Speaker, to protect themselves from such frivolity, most democracies require a threshold against which support can be measured. There ought to be a threshold, not only of support, but of substance, for a motion of this nature to even find its way into a debate. This is the kind of stupidity we should not accept.
We verified with Parliament's Rules and confirmed that the word "stupidity" is parliamentary. Albert Einstein once said ...
Speaker, I rise on a point of order: Could you please make a ruling on the word "stupidity" because, firstly, this also refers to the ANC Whippery who agreed to the debating of this motion. Secondly, perhaps we could introduce the hon Minister of Defence and Military Veterans to the Constitution, which gives us the right to debate a motion of no confidence.
Hon member, you are making a speech now. I am told that the remark was not addressed to a specific individual.
Speaker, I did check: It is not unparliamentary. Albert Einstein once said:
The definition of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over and hoping for different results.
Cope continues with its hopeless pursuit of President Zuma, with disastrous consequences; first in Polokwane, then in the national general elections, and now they are going to be defeated disastrously here.
By entertaining frivolous motions of this nature, this House may well have elevated ridiculous political immaturity to an undeserved status. I contend that we carry an absolute majority mandate in this House, and again want to emphasise that this motion would have needed the support of some members of the ANC, which would not have happened. [Interjections.]
Speaker, I have had occasion to scrutinise the Rules of Parliament, and have consulted, and this has been confirmed by my father here, the hon Mangosuthu Buthelezi. We in the ANC would like to have a review of the Rules of Parliament, because this matter is not regulated in the Rules of Parliament.
Specifically, there should be an onus on any party proposing such a motion to show that it has a reasonable opportunity to carry through the constitutional provision of a majority. This should also ensure that there is no abuse of the Constitution for purposes other than what it was intended for, especially by the same people who always grandstand and stand up there as protectors of the Constitution. We must stop this abuse.
Calling for a motion of no confidence in a President is a serious matter. It is not something to be taken lightly. This constitutional provision is intended to allow Parliament to use this provision should the President fail on matters that he is constitutionally bound by. These matters are very clearly spelt out in sections 83 and 84. Read the Constitution. [Interjections.]
The allegations that are raised here about Zimbabwe and about Malema are not remotely connected to the Constitution. What is there about constitutional failure that you want to bring to our attention about President Mugabe? What is there about constitutional failure that you want to bring to our attention about Malema? Why should we be sitting here or standing here discussing Malema?
The opposition parties' latest publicity stunt comes as no surprise. As the Minister of Justice and Constitutional Development has indicated, it comes at a time when the leadership of Cope has been accused of ineptitude, which all of us can see. It has to resort to theatrics to respond to accusations that it is being upstaged by the DA. And it continues to allow the DA to upstage it. They want to use Parliament to address their leadership squabbles. We should not allow this.
To Cope, I wish to say: Play the game, not the man. This is what has flawed your politics for so long. You have been playing the man and it has completely blinded your vision. You are obsessed with President Zuma. Get off it! [Applause.]
I was disappointed that the hon president of the IFP did not stick to the submission that he made to us at the state of the nation address. I want to repeat, purely for emphasis, what he said:
I respect President Zuma, warts and all, because behind him, rightly or wrongly, is the will of the democratic mandate of 66% of the South African people.
Hon Buthelezi, I wanted you to repeat this. You said that you could not hinder or oppose, without opposing the people of South Africa. "I cannot afford to see the President or his government fail", you said to us. "If they fail, my own country fails. If the President fails or the government fails, I will not applaud or rejoice, but weep. For, if they fail, our liberation fails."
That's what you said and that's what I respect you for. [Applause.]
On what point are you rising, hon Shenge?
Speaker, I just want to find out from the hon Minister whether, in fact, she is deaf, because I actually said those things today. Everyone heard me say them. Is she deaf? [Laughter.]
Order! Continue, hon Minister.
That is exactly what I am emphasising on your behalf, Shenge, because I heard you loudly and clearly, especially that, if the government fails, then our liberation fails.
In an act of desperation and consumed by a vengeful spirit, the Cope leadership has tried to exploit the President's willingness to accept where he might have erred. The President is not beyond criticism and he is the first to say so, and where he believes he has failed us, he is the first to acknowledge it. Mbhazima, are you listening? He is the first one to acknowledge this. [Interjections.] [Laughter.]
Hon member ... Mr Speaker ...
Hon Mbhazima Shilowa. [Laughter.]
Hon Minister, we don't address hon members by name.
Speaker, I had just hoped that perhaps the word "acknowledge" might ring a bell with him.
Where President Zuma believes he has failed us, he is the first to acknowledge it and apologise. We, who constitute 66% of this House, have forgiven him. Here is a bitter pill for all of you to swallow: The Minister of Justice and Constitutional Development has said - using the April 2009 election as a starting point - the TNS survey showed that President Zuma's approval rating rose from 40% at the beginning of 2009, to 52% at the time of the election, and increased to 58% in November of the same year. The TNS survey was led to argue that "... it is clear that many ordinary citizens separate their approval of President Zuma from his private life". We are also pleased that the latest report from the Bureau of Economic Research, which was published only last week, found that business confidence had risen by 15% to 43% in the current quarter. This represents the single biggest increase in 16 years. [Applause.] Eat your heart out and tell us what you are griping about today.
What galls us is the sheer hypocrisy of the President's detractors. To Cope I wish to say: You are a bunch of sore losers, sour at democracy. Turn your attention to yourselves. [Interjections.]
Mr Speaker, I would like to ask you to again ask the hon Minister to withdraw the reference to "bunch". Thank you.
Mr Speaker, I was talking about sour, and perhaps "bunch" does not arise there. But, sour losers, sour at democracy. Turn your attention to yourselves.
Mr Speaker ...
Hon Minister ...
I withdraw the bunch of grapes, but sour nonetheless. [Applause.]
Check with your erstwhile friend the hon De Lille how her media-hyped support very quickly dwindled to 0,9%. It is in the nature of politics that the media can make you out to be more than what you are. Even when she is busy drumming up support for her coalition of the disgruntled, she will tell you how damaging it is to lose a deputy president of an organisation, such as you have lost, and we gained her. Lynda Odendaal has seen the light, not only because she discovered ... [Interjections.]
Order, hon members!
... what we have always told everybody is that Cope is made up of permanently angry individuals who lost a democratic contest; also, importantly, that we in the ANC are the only people who can rise to the challenges of the nation. We stand here ready to defend the hard-won freedoms of our democracy. The hypocrisy is so sickening. Which one of these hon members sitting here in their individual glass houses can throw a stone?
Hon Dandala, would it be you? [Laughter.] Never! Hon Shilowa, would it be you? [Interjections.] Never! Any of you in Cope? Should I go on and name you? No!
Hon Dandala, for what it is worth, get out of Cope while you can. [Interjections.] [Applause.] It is a destructive energy over positions, legitimised under your bishop's cloth. Get out and go and serve the church and ... [Interjections.] [Applause.]
Order! Order! Order! I would also like to remind people in the gallery that they are our guests here; they should not participate.
Speaker, this is a people's Parliament.
Continue, hon member.
Speaker, while we are at it, I propose that we throw this motion out. Hon Dandala can take it out with him as he leaves. I thank you. [Applause.]
Hon Speaker, the ACDP is disappointed that the ANC has decided to stifle debate on a very important motion by giving us only one minute to tell the nation whether we support the motion before us or not.
The President has made our nation the laughing stock of the world by his carelessness and repeated moral failures. He has undermined his own government's safe-sex message by having unprotected sex with his mistresses.
Firstly, on behalf of the ACDP, I have advised the President to seek counselling and sex addiction therapy, as was recommended to Tiger Woods, who also had a similar problem of sleeping around. Since the President has rejected our advice, we have, therefore, decided to support this motion of no confidence today.
Secondly, corruption seems to be getting out of hand under his leadership. Tender processes are undermined, thus benefiting a few connected individuals while the poor are getting poorer. Under his government leadership, state expenditure has increased substantially. In addition, taxpayers will have to pay more than R15 million to maintain his three wives.
Lastly, he has failed to show overall leadership in times of crisis and violent protests caused by poor service delivery. Thank you. [Applause.]
Motlotlegi Mmusakgotla, re le lekoko la UCDP re na le dintlha tse di latelang mo ntlheng e ya tshisinyo kgatlhanong le Moporesitente Zuma; UCDP e dumela mo go rateng motho, mo go tlotleng motho, go mo direla, go mo rerisa le go mo itshokela. (Translation of Setswana paragraph follows.)
[Mrs M N MATLADI: Hon Speaker, as the UCDP we have the following points to make regarding the motion against President Zuma: The UCDP believes in loving a person, respecting him, working for him, informing and being patient with him.]
In the Bible, we have references to leaders who have erred like the hon President - people like Abraham, King David, King Solomon, and others. God had His own way of dealing with their behaviour.
We believe that this matter is too personal, that it has to be dealt with in the political party to which the hon President belongs, since the South African electoral system is not a constituency-based one, but one based on proportional representation of parties. We say that for the other matters of delivery that the hon members of the opposition have referred to, let us give the hon President some extension of time, lest we evaluate him too soon.
Ra re monyadiwa ga a bolawe. [We cannot expect a person to be perfect in everything.]
I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr Speaker, Mahatma Gandhi once said that true leaders are those who add value to society, and a country which does not invest in its youth does not have a future.
The President must forget about fanfare. The country is concerned about ethics and values, and leaders have to set an exemplary example for the youth to emulate. If not, we will deliver embarrassing products like Julius Malema with his absurd slogans.
Everything has limitations. Human rights provisions have limitations, and even traditions have limitations. We are judged. Independent analysts are questioning our leadership of our country. When it comes to families, there must be norms, for example the king's expenses. The MF proposes that the policy be reviewed.
However, the MF will indeed abstain, and rather calls upon the President and the ANC to have a special lekgotla at which they search their inner soul and cleanse themselves and come back new and fresh. All those who are working under the President have failed him.
Let us march forward today with courage, conviction and determination, and instil the correct goals and morals in our youth so that they will be responsible, respectful and dignified adults.
Mr Speaker, it appears that the politics of personalised invectives that we have witnessed in the media have finally set foot in Parliament. The APC believes that our politics must be steered away from the froth and bubble to focus on the issues that affect the majority of our people.
The APC believes that the people expect us to be absorbed by a search for solutions to daily material concerns like unemployment, inequality, timeous and qualitative service delivery, and the fight against corruption and fraud in both the public and private sectors. The APC does not believe that it is objective to call for a no-confidence vote in a government that is less than a year into its five-year term. We believe that what should rather be occupying us as the National Assembly is how to strengthen and deepen oversight over the executive in, firstly, the fight against corruption, and wasteful and fruitless expenditure in government, as emphasised by both the President and the Minister of Finance; secondly, the proposed new economic growth trajectory that is premised on job creation, as proposed by Ministers Davies and Patel; and, lastly, the campaign for clean audits and service delivery by municipalities, better health care, quality education, and faster land reform.
The APC calls on all parties to show leadership and responsibility by being sincere, patriotic and mature, and to act with integrity. We call on the National Assembly to strengthen oversight and give greater support and more powers to its oversight committees, especially those that deal with the management and utilisation of public funds like the Portfolio Committee on Finance, the Standing Committee on Appropriations, and the Standing Committee on Public Accounts.
It must always be about the people and never about narrow partisan interests. The APC does not support the original motion for a vote of no confidence in the President of the Republic.
Hon Speaker, hon Deputy President, I move the following amendment to the motion before the House: To omit all the words after "That" and to substitute: "The House has full confidence in the President of the Republic of South African and appreciates his leadership of the government and nation."
I stand here, in front of the country and the world to speak to the suitability of the President of the Republic of South Africa to continue to hold high the office of President. As the House is aware, this sad episode is occasioned by the unfortunate and adventurous tabling of the so-called motion of no confidence in our President.
This being a party-based system of government, a motion of no confidence in the President becomes a motion of no confidence in the ANC. Those who seek to displace an elephant must be prepared to climb a mountain, and be good mountaineers at that. We reserve the right to self-defence and we are now called upon to exercise that right. We are exercising that right in defence of our revolution and in defence of our future as a people.
Accordingly, we are tabling a motion of confidence in the President of the Republic. In doing so, I wish to remind the country who Jacob Gedleyihlekisa Zuma is. In the President we have a peasant boy who joined the army of the working people at a tender age. This background has shaped and formed his social and political consciousness. That is why he continues to be biased in favour of the rural and urban poor and the working class.
This bias is reflected in the structure and programmes of the government that he leads with unassailable distinction. He is the son of the black people of South Africa. He is a warrior prince born of the proud Zulu people who distinguished themselves as true patriots throughout the torturous period of the wars of resistance, which ended with the defeat of Chief Bhambhatha in the Inkandhla forests in 1902. His participation in the national liberation struggle is borne of the direct experience of being an African in apartheid South Africa. As a freedom fighter, he is generally acknowledged as one of the most dedicated, fearless and exemplary soldiers and leaders of the people's army uMkhonto weSizwe.
In this regard, he worked in the underground, was captured and served 10 years on Robben Island. On his release he went into exile and there rose through the ranks to head the ANC Mbhokodo and become a member of the national executive committee. It was in this capacity that he became the first member of the NEC to legally enter South Africa in order to prepare for formal negotiations.
He is a proud Zulu man who fiercely defends his culture and way of life. His elevation to high office has not alienated him from his way of life, and he is an active participant in the village activities of the people of Inkandhla whenever time permits. He observes and practises traditional rituals together with his people, and he is not ashamed of who he is. [Applause.] He refuses to be judged according to the standards of non- Africans, who continue to insist that theirs is the only acceptable culture, even 15 years after our liberation. [Applause.]
History will remember our President as a dedicated and highly successful peacemaker. In exile, he was part of the team that initiated contact between the ANC in exile and the apartheid regime. In the 1990s, as chairperson of the ANC in KwaZulu-Natal and working together with Prince Mangosuthu Buthelezi, he established peace in KwaZulu-Natal and gave South Africa the rare gift of peace. We are most grateful for this.
As the Deputy President of the Republic he led negotiations that gave Burundi its own peace. He continues with the mission to restore and consolidate peace on the continent and in the world in general. President Zuma is a great reconciler. He has introduced a new style of governance which does not criminalise opposition, but rather seeks to find common national interests that bind us together as a nation. [Applause.]
In this regard, he has opened dialogue with leaders of South Africa in all spheres: political, economic, cultural and everywhere else. He is not grievance-driven and that makes him a great forgiver. [Applause.] Anyone else in his place would have gone after those who have persecuted him in recent times, using state organs to fight political fights. He has not done so.
All these attributes and many more are found in abundance in our great movement, the ANC; a movement that seeks to build a humane and caring society that recognises and accords human dignity to all, without regard to race, class, colour and gender; a movement that has been at the forefront of the struggle to create a better life for all; a movement that continues to promote reconciliation based on political and social justice, sometimes even in the face of insolent provocation by defenders at the grave of apartheid and their lackeys and fellow travellers.
As this movement, we unashamedly champion the interests of victims of apartheid, that is black people in general and Africans in particular. We are not apologetic in this regard, and we are ready to fall on our swords in defence of this principle. We are determined to build a new South Africa that is founded on solid foundations of social justice and political, economic and cultural equality. We have forgiven those who enslaved us over centuries. We now insist on being treated as equals. On this, we shall give no quarter, there shall be no retreat. [Applause.]
We expect no mercy or favours, as we never have done over all those centuries, from our detractors. There is no easy walk to freedom, Mdala said. Many gave up and many betrayed us, as we unflinchingly and relentlessly pursued the struggle for freedom. We are not about to give up now. There have been moments when anti-people deviants have found themselves at the helm of our great movement. Whenever they got caught, we either expelled them or they walked out.
Many of those who walked away soon discovered the grim truth of the loneliness of the wilderness. It is bitterly cold out there, as they endured a solitary existence akin to that of the prodigal son. Let me repeat: It is bitterly cold out there, as they endured a solitary existence akin to that of the prodigal son.
In recent years we confronted this phenomenon, which sought to own the ANC as the personal property of a tiny clique, failing which it was determined to destroy the ANC from within. Happily the people recaptured their movement in Polokwane. There was a tendency to conduct public affairs and political discourse with unprecedented arrogance. There were no boundaries or restraint. Those who tried to offer wise counsel would be rebuffed with the might of Samson. Not only would their advice be rejected, they would be subjected to mob lynching. Our own icon, President Nelson Mandela, was not spared the wrath of this tendency that was running amok.
Those who supported this tendency embarked on a determined struggle to stop the then Deputy President Zuma from becoming the next leader of the ANC and the country. Elaborate plans were put in place to retain the ANC as a personal fiefdom of those who supported this tendency. They wanted to impose their chosen leader upon us in order to consolidate their anti- people agenda.
Zuma became an obstacle that stood firm between this greed-driven insanity and the restoration of our movement to its members. He had to be stopped at all costs. His persecutors were unrelenting, even in the face of provoking a possible civil war. In those bleak and dark days, I was among those who defiantly sang the song: Basithatha phi isibindi esingaka sokuthatha iANC bayenze eyabo. [Kwaqhwatywa.] [Where do they get so much courage to make the ANC their own?][Applause.]
We went to Polokwane and the people spoke and elected President Zuma. The supports to the tendency were shell - shocked and confused. As the reality of defeat began to sink in, shock turned into fierce fury against the tendency itself and against the ANC, our beloved movement. At last and finally, the tendency had fallen from the high horse of folly and the house of cards began to collapse into a heap of broken illusions and shattered ambitions. The boasting came to an abrupt halt. Some of the leaders of the tendency walked out with the sole aim of destroying and defeating the ANC, regardless of the political cost to the majority of our people whose hopes and dreams remained firmly behind the movement. They formed an organisation and arrogantly called it the Congress of the People, in a way to spite the real Congress.
We went into the elections under the leadership of President Zuma. The ANC won with an overwhelming majority and the world did not collapse. In fact, the sun still rose and it continues to do so today. The prophets of doom have been silenced, but they are bitter and consumed by an incomprehensible hatred of the person of the President of the Republic. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Hon Speaker, let me start by thanking you for affording this House an opportunity to debate this motion. We would like to say, Speaker, that it is important for us to accept in a democracy, even if people are in the minority, that they have the right to make their case and for that to be debated by the nation. [Applause.]
Secondly, we would like to say that it is important that whatever else we do, we do not lower the bar against which the members who are serving in the public should be held to account. In spite of our weaknesses and everything else, we have to uphold the need for a high level of morality in nation-building.
Order, hon members! Allow the speaker to be heard.
Finally, I urge the members of this House that because we are now going to vote people must be guided by their consciences, beyond party loyalty. It is unfortunate that this is not going to be by secret ballot, because people will look at how others vote, but we have confidence that the South Africans out there are going to prove that the motion that Cope brought here is valid and legitimate. Thank you. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Hon members, we have before us the motion by Rev Dandala upon which an amendment has been moved. I will first put the amendment moved by Adv N A Ramatlhodi, namely: To omit all the words after "That" and to substitute: "The House has full confidence in the President of the Republic of South Africa and appreciates his leadership of the government and nation."
Are there any objections to the amendment?
Hon Speaker, may I address you on a point of order, please?
Yes, go right ahead. Hon members, order! You have the floor and my protection, hon member.
I rise on a point of order: The motion before the House was brought in terms of section 102(2) of the Constitution, which is a constitutional provision. The Rules of the House and therefore the presiding officer, in my view, can never and should never override a constitutional provision. We therefore submit, as Cope, that you cannot use Rule 96(c) to allow the proposed amendment, because to do so simply means we are going to use Rules to trample the Constitution. The Rules are supposed to enhance the implementation of the Constitution and never to subvert the Constitution. Thank you. [Applause.]
The Rules do not necessarily exclude an amendment being moved to a motion. Indeed, in terms of the Rules, a notice is dispensed with when an amendment to a motion is moved. In addition, the Rules provide that the presiding officer may allow an amendment. In taking such a decision, the presiding officer would have regard to the practice as it obtains here and in similar parliaments. I have indeed applied my mind to this issue and I'm convinced that such an amendment is permissible and in line with Rule 96(c). [Applause.]
Question put: That the amendment moved by Mr N A Ramatlhodi be agreed to.
Division demanded.
The House divided.
AYES - 235: Abram, S; Adams, P E; Ainslie, A R; Baloyi, M R; Bam-Mugwanya, V; Bapela, K O; Bhengu, N R; Bhengu, P; Bikani, F C; Bogopane-Zulu, H I; Bonhomme, T J; Booi, M S; Borman, G M; Boshigo, D F; Botha, Y R; Burgess, C V; Chabane, O C; Chauke, H P; Chikunga, L S; Chiloane, T D; Chohan, F I; Coleman, E M; Cronin, J P; Cwele, S C; Dambuza, B N; Davies, R H; De Lange, J H; Ditshetelo, I C; Dlakudla, D E; Dlamini-Zuma, N C; Dlulane, B N; Doidge, G Q M; Dubazana, Z S; Dube, M C; Duma, N M; Dunjwa, M L; Ebrahim, E I; Farisani, T S; Fransman, M L; Frolick, C T; Fubbs, J L; Gasebonwe, T M A; Gcwabaza, N E; Gelderblom, J P; Gigaba, K M N; Gina, N; Godi, N T; Godongwana, E; Gololo, C L; Gona, M F; Goqwana, M B; Gumede, D M; Gungubele, M; Gxowa, N B; Hajaig, F; Hanekom, D A; Hogan, B A; Holomisa, S P; Huang, S-B; Jacobus, L; Jeffery, J H; Joemat-Pettersson, T M; Johnson, M; Kekane, C D; Kenye, T E; Kholwane, S E; Khumalo, F E; Komphela, B M; Kota-Fredericks, Z A; Landers, L T; Lekgetho, G; Line, H; Lishivha, T E; Luthuli, A N; Luyenge, Z; Maake, J J; Mabasa, X; Mabedla, N R; Mabuza, M C; Madasa, Z L; Madlala, N M; Mafolo, M V; Magagula, V V; Magama, H T; Magau, K R; Magazi, M N; Magwanishe, G; Mahlangu-Nkabinde, G L; Makasi, X C; Makhubela-Mashele, L S; Makhubele, Z S; Makwetla, S P; Malale, M I; Malgas, H H; Maluleka, H P; Maluleke, J M; Manamela, K B; Manana, M C; Manganye, J; Mangena, M S; Manuel, T A; Mapisa-Nqakula, N N; Martins, B A D; Mashatile, P; Mashigo, R J; Mashishi, A C; Masutha, T M; Mataboge, D K; Mathebe, D H; Mathebe, P M; Mathibela, N F; Matladi, M N ; Matlanyane, H F; Matshoba, J M; Maunye, M M; Mavunda, D W; Mayende-Sibiya, N A; Maziya, A M; Mbalula, F A; Mbili, M E; Mdaka, M N; Mdakane, M R; Mdladlana, M M S; Mfeketo, N C; Mgabadeli, H C; Mjobo, L N; Mkhize, L N; Mkhulusi, N N P; Mlangeni, A; Mmusi, S G; Mnisi, N A; Mokoena, A D; Molebatsi, M A; Molewa, B E E; Moloi- Moropa, J C; Morutoa, M R; Moss, L N; Motimele, M S; Motlanthe, K P; Motshekga, M A; Motshekga, M S; Mthethwa, E M; Mthethwa, E N; Mufamadi, T A; Mushwana, F F; Muthambi, A F; Nchabeleng, M E; Ndabandaba, L B G; Ndabeni, S T; Ndebele, J S; Nel, A C; Nelson, W J; Nene, N M; Newhoudt- Druchen, W S; Ngcengwane, N D; Ngcobo, B T; Ngcobo, E N N; Ngele, N J; Ngwenya, W; Ngwenya-Mabila, P C; Nhlengethwa, D G; Nkoana-Mashabane, M E; Nkwinti, G E; November, N T; Ntapane, S Z; Ntuli, B M; Ntuli, Z C; Nxesi, T W; Nxumalo, M D; Nyalungu, R E; Nyama, M M A; Nyanda, S; Nyekemba, E; Nzimande, B E; Oliphant, G G; Oliphant, M N; Oosthuizen, G C; Pandor, G N M; Peters, E D; Petersen-Maduna, P; Phaahla, M J; Phaliso, M N; Pilusa- Mosoane, M E; Pule, D D; Radebe, B A; Radebe, G S; Radebe, J T; Ramatlhodi, N A; Ramodibe, D M; Rantsolase, M A; Rasool, E; Saal, G; Scheemann, G D; Sefularo, M; Segale-Diswai, M J; Selau, G J; Sexwale, T M G; Shabangu, S; Shiceka, S; Sibanyoni, J B; Sibhidla, N N; Sisulu, L N; Sithole, S C N; Sizani, P S; Skosana, J J; Smith, V G; Sogoni, E M; Sonjica, B P; Sonto, M R; Sosibo, J E; Sotyu, M M; Stofile, M A; Suka, L; Sulliman, E M; Sunduza, T B; Thabethe, E ; Thobejane, S G; Thomson, B; Tinto, B; Tlake, M F; Tobias, T V; Tsebe, S R; Tseke, G K; Tsenoli, S L; Tshivhase, T J; Tsotetsi, D R; Twala, N M; Vadi, I; Van Schalkwyk, M C J; Van Wyk, A; Williams, A J; Xaba, P P; Xasa, T; Xingwana, L M; Zulu, B Z.
NOES - 88: Adams, L H; Balindlela, Z B; Blaai, B C; Boinamo, G G; Botha, T; Carter, D; Dandala, H M; Davidson, I O; De Freitas, M S F; De Lille, P; Dexter, P D; Dreyer, A M; Du Toit, N D; Dudley, C; Ellis, M J; Farrow, S B; Fritz, A T; Gaehler, L B; George, D T; George, M E; Greyling, L; Holomisa, B H; James, W G; Kalyan, S V; Kganare, D A; Kilian, J D; Kloppers-Lourens, J C; Kohler-Barnard, D; Koornhof, N J J v R; Kopane, S P; Kotsi, C M; Krumbock, G R; Lamoela, H; Lee, T D; Lorimer, J R B; Lotriet, A; Louw, A; MacKenzie, G D; Marais, E J; Marais, S J F; Mashiane, L M; Maynier, D J; Mazibuko, L D; McGluwa, J J; Mda, A; Mnguni, P B; Molao, S P; More, E; Morgan, G R; Mubu, K S; Mulder, C P; Ndude, H N; Ngonyama, L S; Nhanha, M A; Njobe, M A A; Ntshiqela, P; Oriani-Ambrosini, M G; Poho, P; Pretorius, P J C; Rabie, P J; Rabotapi, M W; Ramatlakane, L; Robinson, D; Ross, D; Rwexana, S P; Schafer, DA; Selfe, J; Shilowa, M S; Smiles, D C; Smuts, M; Snell, G T; Steele, M H; Steyn, A; Swart, M; Swart, S N; Swathe, M M; Tolo, L J; Trollip, RAP; Van Dalen, P; Van den Berg, N J; Van der Linde, J J; Van der Walt, D; Van der Westhuizen, A P; Van Dyk, S M; Van Schalkwyk, H C; Vukuza-Linda, N Y; Waters, M; Wenger, M. ABSTAIN - 5: Bhoola, R B; Lucas, E J; Mpontshane, A M; Msimang, C T; Skosana, M B.
Question agreed to.
Amendment accordingly agreed to.
Question put: That the motion by Rev H M Dandala, as amended, be agreed to.
Division demanded.
The House divided.
AYES - 242: Abram, S; Adams, P E; Ainslie, A R; Baloyi, M R; Bam-Mugwanya, V; Bapela, K O; Bhengu, N R; Bhengu, P; Bikani, F C; Bogopane-Zulu, H I; Bonhomme, T J; Booi, M S; Borman, G M; Boshigo, D F; Botha, Y R; Burgess, C V; Chabane, O C; Chauke, H P; Chikunga, L S; Chiloane, T D; Chohan, F I; Coleman, E M; Cronin, J P; Cwele, S C; Dambuza, B N; Davies, R H; De Lange, J H; Dikgacwi, M M; Ditshetelo, I C; Dlakudla, D E; Dlamini-Zuma, N C; Dlulane, B N; Doidge, G Q M; Dubazana, Z S; Dube, M C; Duma, N M; Dunjwa, M L; Ebrahim, E I; Farisani, T S; Fihla, N B; Fransman, M L; Frolick, C T; Fubbs, J L; Gasebonwe, T M A; Gcwabaza, N E; Gelderblom, J P; Gigaba, K M N; Gina, N; Godi, N T; Godongwana, E; Gololo, C L; Gona, M F; Goqwana, M B; Gumede, D M; Gungubele, M; Gxowa, N B; Hajaig, F; Hanekom, D A; Hogan, B A; Holomisa, S P; Huang, S-B; Jacobus, L; Jeffery, J H; Joemat-Pettersson, T M; Johnson, M; Kekane, C D; Kenye, T E; Kholwane, S E; Khumalo, F E; Komphela, B M; Koornhof, G W; Kota-Fredericks, Z A; Landers, L T; Lekgetho, G; Line, H; Lishivha, T E; Luthuli, A N; Luyenge, Z; Maake, J J; Mabasa, X; Mabedla, N R; Mabuza, M C; Madasa, Z L; Madlala, N M; Mafolo, M V; Magagula, V V; Magama, H T; Magau, K R; Magazi, M N; Magwanishe, G; Mahlangu-Nkabinde, G L; Makasi, X C; Makhubela-Mashele, L S; Makhubele, Z S; Makwetla, S P; Malale, M I; Malgas, H H; Maluleka, H P; Maluleke, J M; Manamela, K B; Manana, M C; Manganye, J; Mangena, M S; Manuel, T A; Mapisa- Nqakula, N N; Martins, B A D; Mashatile, P; Mashigo, R J; Mashishi, A C; Masutha, T M; Mataboge, D K; Mathebe, D H; Mathebe, P M; Mathibela, N F; Matladi, M N; Matlanyane, H F; Matshoba, J M; Maunye, M M; Mavunda, D W; Mayende-Sibiya, N A; Maziya, A M; Mbalula, F A; Mbili, M E; Mdaka, M N; Mdakane, M R; Mdladlana, M M S; Mfeketo, N C; Mgabadeli, H C; Mjobo, L N; Mkhize, L N; Mkhulusi, N N P; Mlangeni, A; Mmusi, S G; Mnisi, N A; Mokoena, A D; Molebatsi, M A; Molewa, B E E; Moloi-Moropa, J C; Morutoa, M R; Moss, L N; Motimele, M S; Motlanthe, K P; Motshekga, M A; Motshekga, M S; Mthethwa, E M; Mthethwa, E N; Mtshali, E; Mufamadi, T A; Mushwana, F F; Muthambi, A F; Nchabeleng, M E; Ndabandaba, L B G; Ndabeni, S T; Ndebele, J S; Nel, A C; Nelson, W J; Nene, N M; Newhoudt-Druchen, W S; Ngcengwane, N D; Ngcobo, B T; Ngcobo, E N N; Ngele, N J; Ngwenya, W; Ngwenya-Mabila, P C; Nhlengethwa, D G; Njikelana, S J; Nkoana-Mashabane, M E; Nkwinti, G E; November, N T; Ntuli, B M; Ntuli, Z C; Nxesi, T W; Nxumalo, M D; Nyalungu, R E; Nyama, M M A; Nyanda, M F; Nyanda, S; Nyekemba, E; Nzimande, B E; Oliphant, G G; Oliphant, M N; Oosthuizen, G C; Padayachie, R L; Peters, E D; Petersen-Maduna, P; Phaahla, M J; Phaliso, M N; Pilusa-Mosoane, M E; Pule, D D; Radebe, B A; Radebe, G S; Radebe, J T; Ramatlhodi, N A; Ramodibe, D M; Rantsolase, M A; Rasool, E; Saal, G; Scheemann, G D; Sefularo, M; Segale-Diswai, M J; Selau, G J; Sexwale, T M G; Shabangu, S; Shiceka, S; Sibanyoni, J B; Sibhidla, N N; Sisulu, L N; Sithole, S C N; Sizani, P S; Skosana, J J; Skosana, M B; Smith, V G; Snell, G T; Sogoni, E M; Sonjica, B P; Sonto, M R; Sosibo, J E; Sotyu, M M; Stofile, M A; Suka, L; Sulliman, E M; Sunduza, T B; Thabethe, E; Thobejane, S G; Thomson, B; Tinto, B; Tlake, M F; Tobias, T V; Tsebe, S R; Tseke, G K; Tsenoli, S L; Tshivhase, T J; Tsotetsi, D R; Twala, N M; Vadi, I; Van Schalkwyk, M C J; Van Wyk, A; Williams, A J; Xaba, P P; Xasa, T; Xingwana, L M; Zulu, B Z.
NOES - 83: Adams, L H; Balindlela, Z B; Blaai, B C; Boinamo, G G; Botha, T; Carter, D; Dandala, H M; Davidson, I O; De Freitas, M S F; De Lille, P; Dexter, P D; Dreyer, A M; Du Toit, N D; Dudley, C; Ellis, M J; Farrow, S B; Fritz, A T; Gaehler, L B; George, D T; George, M E; Greyling, L; Holomisa, B H; James, W G; Kalyan, S V; Kganare, D A; Kilian, J D; Kloppers-Lourens, J C; Kohler-Barnard, D; Koornhof, N J J v R; Kopane, S P; Kotsi, C M; Krumbock, G R; Lamoela, H; Lee, T D; Lotriet, A; Louw, A; MacKenzie, G D; Marais, E J; Marais, S J F; Mashiane, L M; Maynier, D J; Mazibuko, L D; McGluwa, J J; Mda, A; Mnguni, P B; Molao, S P; More, E; Morgan, G R; Mubu, K S; Mulder, C P; Ndude, H N; Ngonyama, L S; Nhanha, M A; Njobe, M A A; Ntshiqela, P; Poho, P; Pretorius, P J C; Rabie, P J; Rabotapi, M W; Ramatlakane, L; Robinson, D; Ross, D; Rwexana, S P; Schafer, DA; Selfe, J; Shilowa, M S; Smiles, D C; Smuts, M; Steele, M H; Steyn, A; Swart, M; Swart, S N; Swathe, M M; Tolo, L J; Van Dalen, P; Van den Berg, N J; Van der Linde, J J; Van der Westhuizen, A P; Van Dyk, S M; Van Schalkwyk, H C; Vukuza-Linda, N Y; Waters, M; Wenger, M.
ABSTAIN - 6: Bhoola, R B; Lucas, E J; Mpontshane, A M; Msimang, C T; Ntapane, S Z; Oriani-Ambrosini, M G.
Question agreed to.
Motion, as amended, accordingly agreed to.