Hon Speaker, our Constitution promotes the concept of unity and diversity and encourages us to be tolerant and to respect one another's cultures, languages, religions and other distinctions.
I intend to initiate a national debate on morality, so that we can better appreciate the values that are shared across the diversity of our cultures. It is an opportunity also to understand those practices and values that are peculiar to certain cultures. The content of the debate and the matters that would be raised during the course of the debate will depend on what is important to the people of this country.
In my view, any discussion of a nation's morality should also promote a culture of adherence to the rule of law, and should strongly condemn the abuse of power in any form, something which we as government promote.
We should also promote a culture of honesty and integrity in all spheres of society. Therefore, the principle we should establish is that no person should be able to derive undue financial benefits from the state, by virtue of the public position they occupy. This applies to elected public representatives and members of the Public Service.
This has been the principle that has guided our efforts over the past 16 years, through legislation and regulations, to prevent the abuse of public funds. We continually examine these measures, and where there are shortcomings, we take steps to address them.
We should be cautious, however, that our efforts to strengthen these provisions do not inadvertently undermine the rights of any citizen to engage in legitimate business activities, including with the state.
We must also be careful not to make sweeping statements that place legitimate business activities in the same basket as those that may be unlawful or unethical. I am certain that in the course of this debate, such distinctions will become clearer, and we will be better equipped as a nation to promote behaviour that we can all agree is ethical and proper.
What has been the problem is that some seem to regard their cultural belief as the only one that is correct, and tend to use this to judge others and impose their value system on them. Where do they get this authority to judge others? Therefore, we need a common conversation to arrive at a commonly shared determination. I thank you, Speaker.
Speaker and hon President, the reason why we are suggesting that these issues must be included in that debate, is that normally the response by the ANC, in the case of Chancellor House where they are benefiting directly from the increase in electricity prices, is that it is legal.
The other response is that when the Minister benefits from state enterprises, it's legal; when Ministers overspend on accommodation and cars, it's legal.
Now, let me tell you why it is not illegal. It is because the ANC refuses to live up to its promise to the High Court in Cape Town five years ago, when it said it would enact legislation that would regulate party-political funding. The ANC also refuses to implement its own Polokwane resolution, Mr President. The ANC also refuses to support an ID motion that has been before this Parliament for almost two years now.
Now, your debate on morality, Mr President, will be stillborn if we continue to have one set of ethics and morals for political leaders and another set for the rest of South Africa. My question is: Are you prepared to instruct the ANC to enact legislation that will make all of this dubious behaviour illegal? Thank you. [Applause.]
Speaker, I think the hon speaker has, in fact, raised the important point that the matters that she has referred to are not illegal.
It is precisely for that reason that we say: Let us have a debate so that we can ascertain what it is that we all agree are the correct things to do, as South Africans, and what are not the correct things to do. If it suits somebody, then people stand up and condemn others, and if it doesn't suit them, they don't do so.
That will include, of course - once the discussions have taken place - whether people think we need legislation and if legislation is a result of what has happened before. I don't think we should stop doing so. However, let us clarify our minds as South Africans. What is it that we think is right? What is it that we think is wrong?
I think that the very debate I am talking about will even help to deal with those issues. I think that's what I am saying. Thank you.
President, political morality would suggest that it is incorrect for the ruling party to be a player and a referee in determining the quality of services and the tariff levels whilst, at the same time, being a beneficiary of such interventions, as is the case with Eskom and Hitachi.
Would the President not agree that a combination of these practices and the continued irregular awarding of contracts to senior party politicians, including members of the executive, are morally wrong and tantamount to corruption? What action would the President take in this regard?
Speaker, I think the hon member's question is almost in the same vein as the last question I answered. He is going to get an opportunity to raise the issues in the debate and then say what needs to be done, so that we establish the standards and a platform from which all of us can agree that if one does this, then one is doing the wrong thing.
This is because you can't have a practice that has no regulation and no law and, once it is done, you then say it is corruption or tantamount to corruption. You are judging it on what basis? And this is what I am saying: We need to establish this as a country. You will contribute to the debate. The debate is coming.
Speaker ...
... Mhlonishwa Mongameli, kuyiqiniso ukuthi umzabalazo wethu abanye bawubiza ngokuthi umzabalazo womhlaba wonke "internationalised". Endleleni yokulwela inkululeko sahamba sicoshacosha imithetho yobuqotho "values" neyokuziphatha "morals". Okunye okungokwethu sakulahla kangangokuthi ezinye zezinto eziwubu-Afrika uma uzihlanganisa nezinto zaseNtshonalanga kubasengathi ubugebengu.
Njengokuthi nje uma uNxamalala edlula KwaPhindangene, bese kuthi inkosi yakwaButhelezi imhlabise imvu, yisintu leso kithi. Kodwa ngokwemithetho yobuqotho yaseNtshonalanga, sekufanele umemezele, ubike ngoba kuzobakhona ukusoleka, kubesengathi kukhona okunuka santungwana.
Siyazibuza-ke ukuthi kule nkulumompikiswano yokuvuselelwa kwezimilo kukhona yini esizokucosha okuyimithetho yobuqotho neyokuziphatha ezokwazi ukuthatha okwase-Afrika, ngoba phela singama-Afrika asibona abantu baseNtshonalanga. Sizithola sisenkingeni nje ngoba ezinye zezindlela esiqhuba ngayo izinto akuzona ezalapha ekhaya kodwa sizebolekile. Ngiyathokoza (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)
[... hon President, it is true that our struggle for freedom is a struggle of the whole world and is referred to by others as an internationalised struggle. Whilst we were in the struggle for freedom, we adopted some ways of life, namely values and morals. And in the process we discarded some of our values in the sense that if you bring together some of our African values and Western ones, the results become criminalised.
For example, if Nxamalala pays a visit to the KwaPhindangene household, and then the iNkosi of the Buthelezi clan slaughters a sheep as a welcome gesture, to us that is humanity. However, according to Western values, this should be declared in public because there will be some suspicions as if there is something fishy about it.
Therefore, we ask ourselves whether, in this debate on moral regeneration, there might be any values or morals which we can adapt to those of African origin, because we are, in fact, Africans and not Western people. We find ourselves in trouble today just because we deal with certain issues, which are not ours, in a foreign manner. Thank you.]
Speaker ...
... isikhulumi esihloniphekile, sesiyiphendule ngokwaso inkulumo. Enye yezinto edala ukuthi sithi akube khona ingxoxo yikho lokho - ukuthi kunezinto ezingamasiko ezenziwa abantu abathile, kanti kukhona abathile abazibukela phansi nabacabanga ukuthi uma uzenza usuke ukhohlakele. Kodwa ube ungakhohlakele ngokosiko lwakini. Yikho phela lokhu engikushoyo ukuthi asiyivuleni le ngxoxo ixoxwe le ndaba. Kufanele ukuthi abantu baphefumule basho ukuthi bathini ngalolu daba. Lokhu sikwenzela ukuthi kulungiswe izinto.
Ingabe siyokuhlonipha nini ukuthi uMthethosisekelo wethu uthi siyisizwe esibumbene kodwa esinamasiko nezinto zethu esizenzayo eziyimikhuba yethu ezahlukahlukene? Ngoba sifuna kuhlonishwe okunye, okunye kungahlonishwa.
Le ngxoxo-ke engithi ayibe khona phakathi kwesizwe, ayiveze lezo zinto. Bezwakale abakwaDlamini ukuthi eyabo imikhuba ithini, nokuthi iyahlonishwa yini? Uma ngabe ingahlonishwa, kungani ingahlonishwa? Kungani kuhlonishwa eyakwaSwart? Uyayibona into enjalo nje. Kungani kuhlonishwa eyakwaSingh? Usukhulumile Sibalukhulu, ngikuzwa kahle, ngena engxoxweni zivele lezi zinto. Ngiyabonga Somlomo. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)
[... the hon speaker has already responded to the debate. That is another factor which is the reason for our call to have this moral regeneration debate - that there are some things which are practised as common customs by people, whilst there are other people who look down upon them and think that they are immoral when they perform these customs, even though they would not be regarded as being immoral in their own culture. That is why I am saying we should open this debate and discuss this issue. People need to air their views about this issue. We are doing this to correct issues.
When will we respect the fact that our Constitution states that we are a nation united in diversity, with diverse cultures and customs that are performed differently? I am saying this because we want some people's cultures and customs to be respected, but not those of others.
The debate I want the nation to engage in should then highlight such issues. Let us hear the Dlaminis tell us about their customs and whether those customs are respected. And if not, why are they not respected? Why do we respect the Swarts' cultures and customs? You see such things. Why do we respect the Singhs' cultures and customs? You have said a mouthful, Sibalukhulu, I get you. Get into the debate and highlight these issues. Thank you, hon Speaker.]
Mr Speaker, given some of the facts - the revelations - that we have discussed in the House here today about political leaders and members of the executive who have been entrusted with the responsibility of delivering services and opportunities to the people of this country, but who have instead used their political connections for the purpose of personal enrichment, would the hon President concede that this government, and in fact any government, is the last body that should control, seek to dictate and influence people's so-called morality?
State-led efforts to control what citizens think and believe in the privacy of their own homes are the preserve, actually, of authoritarian governments.
Has the hon President, in fact, only made this call for a national debate on morality as a direct consequence of the negative public reaction to certain revelations about his personal life? If not, why not; and if so, what are the relevant details?
Finally, does the constitutional principle of freedom of speech not empower South Africans with the freedom to hold whatever opinion they choose, without the government attempting to influence those opinions, based on certain narrow provisions? Thank you. [Applause.]
Speaker, no, the fact that I say there must be a debate is not influenced by any publicity. I've had this view for a long time, and I think I have said it in public when I spoke about this for the first time.
Last year already, I felt we needed to enter into debate and by so doing we are not dictating. The problem is that there are South Africans, from different professions or whatever, who give themselves authority and the right to judge others - that's a problem - and degrade other people's practices, beliefs and everything because they hold certain beliefs, and that's not correct. That's the point I am making.
Let us debate this. Let us accept what our Constitution says, namely that we live in a country of diversity. How do I get respect if I share a particular belief which you do not share? Should you stand up and say this is totally out of order; this person is wrong, even criminalise the activities of somebody else? We are saying - I am saying - that that is wrong. Let us debate this and agree that this is what has happened.
Also, let us be guided by our history. As you know, in South Africa, some of the things we did as South Africans, were said by some to be were barbaric; that we must be stopped, and other values imposed on us. I don't think we have had an opportunity to speak. I am saying for the first time: Let us speak. What is it that we do? At times people in this country were forced to do their own thing on the quiet, because they were afraid; because they were declared abnormal, as not being right.
One of the things we did in 1994 was to liberate religion and beliefs, to say everybody has a right to worship, in whatever way. Before that you couldn't worship anything, except if you were a Christian. Then you were recognised. If you were a Muslim, everything you did was recognised. There are many other things we did not address then. We addressed this aspect.
I am saying the debate must help us to address those issues, so that South Africans should know that what they say publicly about certain cultures at times injures those people who are practising them, and they have nowhere to go. I am saying: Let us set the standard. Let us utilise democracy and free debate to address those issues, and people are going to have every right to express their views in whatever way.
That's what I am encouraging, so that we do not injure other people's souls without realizing it, because we believe what we believe in is superior, is everything. What you believe in, I believe is nonsense; I do not like it. That's what I say we must deal with, as a country, so that we cement the unity and diversity and have cohesion and respect for other people's beliefs and cultures. All that I am calling for is that we debate and come to an agreement. I think it is the correct thing to do for us as South Africans. I think the time has come to do so. Thank you.
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