Hon member, can you please take your seat for a second? Hon members, seeing that hon Nel is now actually dealing with the budget, the figures, will you allow me to give him, say, an extra five minutes? [Interjections.] Thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: Deputy Chairperson, because the budget was set out in a document and circulated to members, what I will do is just to emphasise the provincial dimension of the budget before sitting down.
The budget of the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development has been segmented into different provincial allocations, even though we are a national department. We do have a network of what we call regional offices in each province.
The total budget allocation per region for the 2011-12 financial year is: Gauteng, R523 million; Eastern Cape, R470 million; KwaZulu-Natal, R440 million; Western Cape, R335 million; Limpopo, R297 million; Free State, R242 million; North West, R222 million; Mpumalanga, R186 million; and Northern Cape, R138 million.
Those amounts are determined based on the number of courts in operation, as well as the number of personnel appointed in a particular region.
With that I pause. Thank you. [Applause.]
Before we proceed, may I at this juncture introduce the delegation from Pakistan who are seated there on the gallery? Welcome to our Chamber. [Applause.]
Ke a leboha Motlatsa Moodulasetulo, Motlatsa Letona le maloko a hlomphehang a Ntlo, re lakatsa hore Voutu ya Ditekanyetso e thuse ho ntshetsa pele boikitlaetso ba rona ba ho tlisa toka bathong bohle, ho nnetefatsa phihlello e lekanang ho bohle. Ho nnetefatsa phihlello ya toka ho batho ba rona bohle, ho tla fedisa mehopolo ya hore mekgwa ya molao ha e kgone ho lwantsha botlokotsebe le manyofonyofo.
Dilemong tse 17 tse fetileng, ANC e behelletse phetoho ya boahlodi sehlohlolong ho latela ponelopele ya tokomane ya tokolloho ya Molaotheo. Tokomane ya Tokolloho ya rona e re; bohle ba tla lekana molaong". Molaotheo wa 1994 o kentse setheo sena Biling ya Ditokelo. ANC e se e kgathile tema ho fetola boahlodi ho tloha ka 1994. Maemong a mokgwa wa molao, Tokomane ya Tokoloho le Molaotheo ke kgokahanyo ya maikutlo a ANC ho tloha ka 1912. Maikutlo ana a teng ho Bili ya Ditokelo ya 1924 le Ditseko tsa Maafrika tsa 1942, moo tokelo ya ho vouta, toka e lekanang le ditokelo tse ding, di ileng tsa tsekwa.
Kamora moo, Freedom Charter e ile ya ananelwa ka 1995 ka sepheo sa ho beha boahlodi boemong bo bo loketseng setjhabeng. Ditokelo tsena hammoho le boitseko ba sepolotiki, di qetelletse ka ho tswa ha ditataiso tsa Molaotheo ka ANC ka 1998, lenaneo la kahobotjha le ntshetsopele le Molaotheo wa 1996.
Ka nako ya puso ya kgethollo makgotla a dinyewe e ne e le disebediswa tsa ho hatella ba sa dumellaneng le mmuso. Dilemong tsa bo 1950 ho ya bohareng ba 1960, mmuso o hlotse dintwa tse ngata tsa boitseko o sebedisa melao ya kgatello. Mohlala, ka 1965, ho kwallwa o le nnotshi, ho ne ho atile molaong wa Afrika Borwa.
Karolo ya botshelela ya Molao wa Boferekanyi ya 1967, e ne e fana ka matla ho mapolesa ho kwalla mang kapa mang ya belaellwang ka boferekanyi. Karolo ena e ile ya nenwa ke mofu Van Niekerk ha a ne a etsa kgweletso ho baahlodi ho se sebelletse mmuso ka ho se tsotelle bopaki ba batshwaruwa ba kwalletsweng ka tlasa karolo ya botshelela ya Molao wa Boferekanyi. Hamorao profesara ya molao e ile ya tjhotjhiswa ka ho nyatsa lekgotla la dinyewe.
Modulasetulo, ha re a tlameha ho lebala hore nakong ya puso ya kgethollo, dikamano pakeng tsa boahlodi le ba phethahatso, di ne di sa hlaka mme ho bonahala boahlodi bo ne bo sa sekametse ntlhakemong ya sepolotiki ya nako eo.
Ka nako ya dilemo tsa phethoho leano la ANC e ne e le ho batla ho kgothalletsa ditheo tsa bohlokwa le puso ya molao jwalokaha di hlahella Molaotheong ho nnetefatsa karohano ya matla pakeng tsa ketsamelao, phethahatso le boahlodi ho kgothalletsa boikarabelo le boikemelo ba boahlodi. Ho bonahala hore sepheo sa leano se tsepame tsamaisong ya toka le mokgwa wa boahlodi.
Phetoho ya makgotla a dinyewe le diphetoho tsa ditheo di a hlokeha hore Maafrika Borwa a be le kuno e lekanang le tshireletso ya molao ho latela tiisetso ya Molaotheo.
Ditekanyetso tsena di tshwanela ho lokisa dikgaello tse teng tse hlokolotsi tsa makgotla a dinyewe tse kenyeletsang Lekgotla la Molaotheo le Lekgotla la Boipiletso tse leng ka sehlohlolong ka bobedi ho fuwa boemo bo hodimodimo ke Molaotheo, e leng se bakang ditsi tse pedi tsa molao.
Makgotla a Phahameng, le ao a sa tswa fetola mabitso hore a bontshe mabitso a diprofensi tseo a leng ho tsona, a ntse a sebetsa ho latela meedi ya pele ho 1994 ya mahae a phutlameng a Transkei, Venda, Bophuthatswana, Ciskei, TVBC, le RSA. Ke kahoo Lekgotla le Phahameng la Gauteng Leboea le tshwere dibaka tsa Transefala ya mehleng, tse kenyeletsang Mpumalanga, Limpopo, Brits, North West, Potchefstroom, tseo kaofela e seng karolo ya Gauteng ho ya ka Molaotheo.
Re tlameha ho nnetefatsa hore kabo ya dinyewe makgotleng e etswa hantle ho sa natswe bong, mmala kapa tumelo. Sepheo ke ho fedisa mehopolo ya hore dinyewe tsa setjhaba di behelwa dihlopha tse itseng tsa batho. Ho na le katleho e bonahalang ho nnetefatsa kemedi e lekaneng le phihlello ya toka ke bohle. Boemedi ka mmala le bong di hlakile. Sepheo ke ho tsetela boahlodi hara batho bao bo ba sebeletsang ho latela nalane le botjhaba ba bona. Melao e mengatangata e amanang le diphethoho tsena, e entswe dilemong tse 17 tse fetileng.
Ho na le meralo ya melao le mekgatlo e shebaneng le phihlello ya toka ke bohle ka kotloloho. Khomishene ya Ditshebeletso tsa Baahlodi e laola ditaba tsa boitshwaro le khiro, melawana le maemo ho nnetefatsa botshepehi le boahlodi le ho se sehe mpa ka lehare.
Ditekanyetso tsena di tlameha ho nnetefatsa phihlello ya toka ke dihlopha tse kotsing ya tlatlapo tse kang basadi, bafutsana, bana le batho ba holofetseng, hammoho le basebetsi. Ke motlotlo ho bolela hore re se re hatetse pele haholo mabapi le phihlello ya toka ho tloha makgotleng a tlase ho fihlela lekgotleng la Molaotheo. Batho ba bonngwe, bafutsana le batho mahaeng le ba mapolasing, ba ka ipopa ho ipiletsa kgahlanong le diqeto tsa Mafapha a Mmuso, diqeto tse itseng tsa makgotla a dinyewe, jwalojwalo.
Khomishene ya Ditokelo tsa Botho ya Afrika Borwa, Legal Aid SA le Lefapha la Toka le Ntshetsopele ya Molaotheo, ba ikemiseditse ka matsholo a thuto ya Molaotheo ho nnetefatsa hore setjhaba se fihlella toka mme le mosebetsi o hloka tjhelete.
Ditho tse amanang le boikarabelo ba boahlodi, bosiyo ba leeme esita le boikemelo, ke tsa bohlokwa. Karolo ya 165 e hlalosa hore makgotla a dinyewe a ikemetse mme a tlasa Molaotheo le molao feela, oo a tlamehang ho o sebedisa ntle le tshabo [Ha ho utlwahale] kapa ho etsa qeto e fosahetseng. Karolwana ya 4 e hlalosa hore makala a naha ka mokgwa wa ketsamolao le mekgwa e meng, a tlameha ho thusa le ho sireletsa makgotla a dinyewe ho nnetefatsa boikemelo, bosiyo ba leeme, seriti, phihlello le tshebetso e kgabane ya makgotla a dinyewe.
Naha e nang le Molaotheo wa demokerasi, boahlodi bo ikemetseng bo a hlokahala ho dumella ho nkuwa ha diqeto ho se nang leeme lehlakoreng la bahlanka ba boahlodi. Ho ya ka tshekatsheko ya bona ya mabaka le kutlwisiso ya bona ya molao ntle le ho thibelwa ke eng kapa eng. Ditshusumetso, ditshoso kapa ho itshunyatshunya. Boikemelo ba boahlodi bo tla thusa baahlodi le bommaseterata ho bontsha hlompho ya ditokelo tsa motho ka mong le tsa batho ka kopanelo le ditabatabelo.
Boikemelo ba boahlodi bo arohanngwe le boikarabelo. Molaotheong wa demokrasi, ho fapana le mehleng ya maswetso, baahlodi le bommaseterata ba ke ke ba ba eba marena metseng ya bona haele hore hantlentle ba tshwanetse ho ba makgotleng a molao ho sebeletsa setjhaba.
Leano la ANC le thusitse haholo ho etsa tlhokomediso ka seabo le mesebetsi ya makgotla a dinyewe mme Maafrika Borwa a na le tshepo ho feta pele. Boahlodi le setjhaba ba kgotse molemo diphethohong tsa tsamaiso. Ka mokgwa o jwalo, dipuisano tse matla le boahlodi, di atisa ho bonwa di le hlokolosi ebile di amana le Bebele. Bathong ba bang, baahlodi le bomaseterata ba nkuwa e le mahlomela a Modimo a sa tshwanelang ho nyatswa. Tlwaelo ena e ka nna ya sitisa diphethoho tsa boahlodi nakong e tlang.
Re tlameha ho sebedisa karolo ya ditjhelete tsena ho kenya thuto ka dikamano tsa boahlodi bo ikemetseng le boikarabelo setjhabeng sa demokerasi ka mokgwa o sa ferekanyeng maikutlo. Thuto ena e tlameha ho rerelwa ditho tsa boahlodi, setjhaba le baphatlalatsi ba ditaba.
Kgatelo pele e nngwe e entsweng ke ya hore makgotla a mangatanyana a dinyewe a ahilwe ke mmuso wa ANC setjhabeng ho ya ka mokgwatsamaiso wa toka ya bohle. Ditoloko tse makgotleng a dinyewe di ba teng bakeng sa moqosuwa e mong le e mong. Ka tsoseletso ya mokgwa wa molao, ho hlakile hore phetolo ya boahlodi e tla fihlellwa dilemong tse hlano tse tlang. Seo se tlamehang ho etswa ke ho lekanya phetolo ya baahlodi le ho ngoka diofisiri le ho iswa ha mosebetsi wa bona mafisa molemong wa ba bang ba bona bakeng sa ho ntlafatsa bophelo ba bohle. Re amohela lewa la phetoho le poloko ya ditshebeletso le tlang ho kenngwa tshebetsong selemong sena le se tlang, ho kenyeletsa ho akofiswa mekgwatsamaiso ya dikopo le ditefo; mesebetsi e amanang le diprojeke tsa phetoho le poloko ya ditshebeletso e behilweng ka pele bakeng sa Medium- Term Strategic Framework, MTSF, e akga ho fuputsa makgotla a dinyewe a ka Moqebelo a amanang le tjhelete ya letheka le ditho tse ding tse amanang le malapa; ho thehwa ha ditshebeletso tsa bonamodi dinthong tse amanang le tjhelete ya letheka; ho hlophisa thupelo ya boqhetseke ho bookamedi le basebeletsi ba sebetsanang le tjhelete ya letheka ka mokgwa le maemo a tjhelete eo.
Ka sebele re a di amohela diprojeke tse kgolo tsa moralo wa motheo tseo lefapha le di rerileng tse kang Lekgotla le Phahameng la Dinyewe la Limpopo le Polokwane le Lekgotla le Phahameng la Dinyewe la Mpumalanga le Nelspruit. Ho ahwa ha makgotla ana a dinyewe ka bobedi, ho tla thusa tlhahisong ya mesebetsi diindastering tsa meaho tsa dibaka tseo mme ha di se di sebetsa, ho tla hlokeha diofisiri le batsamaisi ba boahlodi.
Re thoholetsa lefapha ka ho hlwaya thekenoloji ya tlhahisoleseding e le yona e tlang ho thusa haholo. Leha ho le jwalo, ho tokotswa ha tjhelete ho amme merero ya poloko ya IT e le maemong a matle. Re ipiletsa hore ho ahwe botjha makgotla a rona a dinyewe, meralo ya motheo ya thekenoloji ya tshireletso ho fedisa dipaleho. Re tlameha ho fedisa ditjeo tsa ho eketsa tshireletso dibakeng tsa phano ya ditshebeletso ka ho sebedisa tshireletso ya sepolesa sa naha ho e na le bahlanka ba tshireletso ba khampani ya poraefete e jang tjhelete e ngata.
Modulasetulo, tshebetso ya makgotla le tshallo morao ya dinyewe nako e telele e sa hlokahaleng ya kgutlisetso morao ya dinyewe, dib a le seabo mehopolong ya hore makgotla a rona a ntse a sa fihlellwe ka botlalo. Tekanyetso ena e tshwanela ho thusa makgotla a rona ho shebana le tshallo morao ya dinyewe mme ka ho fetisisa, makgotleng a mabatowa ka lebaka la boikarabelo bo ekeditsweng ba makgotla ana ho shebana le tlolo tsa molao tse mpe ka ho fetisisa. (Translation of Sesotho paragraphs follows.)
[Mr T M H MOFOKENG: I thank you, Deputy Chairperson, Deputy Minister and hon members of the House, we want this Budget Vote to contribute to our commitment to justice for all our people to ensure universal and equal access. Ensuring access for all our people will debunk any perception that the criminal justice system, CJS, is ineffective in dealing with crime and corruption.
Over the past 17 years the ANC has prioritised transformation of the judiciary, inspired by the vision of the Freedom Charter and the Constitution. Our Freedom Charter said: "All will be equal before the law." The 1996 Constitution entrenched this principle in its Bill of Rights. The ANC has made progress in transforming the judiciary since 1994. In the context of the criminal justice system the Freedom Charter and the Constitution represent a consolidation of views expressed by the ANC since 1912. These pervaded the 1924 Bill of Rights and the 1942 Africans' Claims, whereby the right to vote, equal justice and other rights were demanded.
Subsequently, the Freedom Charter was adopted in 1995 and sought to place the judiciary in its proper position in society. These rights and a politically oriented struggle resulted in the ANC producing the constitutional guidelines in 1998, the Reconstruction and Development Programme and finally the 1996 Constitution.
Under apartheid rule, the courts were used as instruments to suppress opponents of the regime. During the 1950s to mid-1960s many struggles were defeated by the regime through tough repressive laws. For example, in 1965 detention under solitary confinement was common under South African law.
Section 6 of the Terrorism Act of 1967 provided that the police could detain anyone suspected of being a terrorist. This section was criticised by the late Prof Van Niekerk in calling upon judges not to become footmen by ignoring the evidence of detainees held under section 6 of the Terrorism Act. The law professor was later prosecuted for contempt of court.
Chairperson, we must not forget that during apartheid rule the relationship between judges and the executive was not clearly demarcated and there seems to be a certain degree of judicial loyalty to the political status quo of the time.
During the years of transition the ANC policy sought to promote fundamental principles and the rule of law as expressed in the Constitution to ensure the separation of powers between legislature, executive and judiciary to promote accountability and judicial independence. It appears that the objective has a focus on the administration of justice and the judicial system.
Transformation of the court system and institutional reforms are necessary if South Africans are to enjoy equal benefits and protection of the law guaranteed by the Constitution.
This budget must address some of the salient deficiencies of the court system, which involve the following. The Constitutional Court and the Supreme Court of Appeal are both accorded supreme status by the Constitution, thus providing two centres of jurisprudence.
The High Courts, despite their names having been recently changed to reflect the names of the provinces in which they are situated, still function in terms of territorial jurisdictions of the pre-1994 boundaries of the defunct TBVC homelands and RSA territory, hence the North Gauteng High Court exercises jurisdiction over the old Transvaal, which included Mpumalanga, Limpopo, Brits and Potchefstroom, all of which are, in terms of the Constitution, not part of Gauteng.
We must also ensure that the allocation of court cases is done properly without considering gender, race or religion. This is to debunk the perception that civil cases tend to be preserved for certain groups of people. There are noticeable achievements to ensure equal representivity and access to justice for all. Representation in terms of colour and gender is evident, the aim being to root the judiciary among the people they serve in relation to their history and culture. Significant numbers of pieces of legislation with a bearing on these goals have been passed in the last 17 years.
There is a legal framework and bodies that deal directly with justice for all. The Judicial Service Commission regulates matters of conduct and appointments, rules and standards to ensure judicial integrity and impartiality. This budget must ensure access to justice for the vulnerable groups such as women, the poor, children, persons with disabilities, and workers.
I am proud to say that we have made great strides in relation to access to justice from the lower courts to the Constitutional Court. Individual persons, poor and rural and farming communities can organise themselves and appeal various courts' decisions with regard to government departments, certain decisions of particular courts and so on.
The SA Human Rights Commission, Legal Aid South Africa and the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development are committed, through education campaigns about the Constitution, to ensure access to justice for our communities and this work requires financial resources.
The notions of judicial accountability, impartiality and independence are fundamental. Section 165 states that -
The courts are independent and subject only to the Constitution and the law, which they must apply impartially and without fear, favour or prejudice.
Subsection (4) states that -
Organs of state, through legislative and other measures, must assist and protect the courts to ensure the independence, impartiality, dignity, accessibility and effectiveness of the courts.
In a constitutional democratic state, an independent judiciary is necessary to allow for impartial decision-making on the part of judicial officers, in accordance with their assessment of the facts and their understanding of the law without any restrictions, inducements, influences, threats or interferences. The independence of the judiciary will help judges and magistrates to promote respect for individual rights and collective rights and interests.
Chairperson, judicial independence is inseparable from accountability. In a constitutional democracy, unlike in medieval periods, judges and magistrates cannot become kings in their own palace when in fact they are supposed to be in courts of law to serve communities.
The ANC policy has contributed significantly to promoting awareness about the roles and functions of courts and South Africans have more confidence than ever before. Both the judiciary and the public have benefited from the transformation of the system. Be that as it may, vigorous engagement with the judiciary tends to be seen as mechanical and biblical. In some circles judges and magistrates are perceived to be in the same position as God, and should not be criticised. This tendency might stifle judicial transformation in the near future.
We must use part of this budget to promote education on the relationship between judicial independence and accountability in a democratic society in a manner that is unsentimental. This education must target members of the judiciary, the public and the media.
Another indication of progress made is that a significant number of courts have been built by the ANC government in communities in line with the principle of justice for all. Court interpreters have been made available for every accused person. With the revamp of the criminal justice system, it is quite likely that transformation of the judiciary will be effectively realised in the next five years. What must not be done is to equate transformation of the judiciary with co-option of individual officers and outsourcing of their function for expediency, rather than for a better life for all.
We welcome the turnaround strategy for maintenance services that will be implemented this year and next year, including expediting application procedures and processing payments. Prioritised activities related to the maintenance service turnaround project for the Medium-Term Strategic Framework, MTSF, period include: investigating Saturday courts for maintenance and other family related matters; introducing mediation services for maintenance matters; and facilitating skills training for maintenance line managers and front line staff on maintenance norms and standards
Indeed, we welcome the department's planned major infrastructure projects, such as: the Limpopo High Court in Polokwane and the Mpumalanga High Court in Nelspruit. Building both courts will contribute to the creation of jobs in the local construction industry and, once operational, the courts will need judicial officers and administrators. We commend the department for identifying investment in information technology as a key enabler. However, budget cuts have affected the IT maintenance plan. We appeal for reconstruction of our courts' security- related technological infrastructure to combat escapes. We must curb the costs of increasing security at service delivery points by making use of state security police instead of expensive private companies' security guards.
Chairperson, the court processes, case backlogs and undue length of remand tend to contribute to perceptions that our courts are still not entirely accessible. This Budget Vote must help our courts deal with the case backlog, which is significantly higher in the regional courts due to the increased jurisdiction of the court to deal with more serious offences.]
Hon member, can you conclude? [Interjections.]
Mong: T M H MOFOKENG: Ke nnete, ho a bonahala eka sepheo selemong sena, ke ho nnetefatsa hore ho thehwe maemo a tshebetso. Ona ke mohato o motle o lebileng pele ka kgothaletso le tjhebelopele ho fedisweng ha tshallo morao ha dinyewe.
ANC e tshehetsa ditekanyetso tsena.
Ke a leboha. [Mahofi.] (Translation of Sesotho paragraphs follows.) [Mr T M H MOFOKENG: Indeed it seems the intention, this year, is to ensure that performance standards are established. This is good step forward to promote good performance in order to eradicate the case backlog.
The ANC supports this budget.
I thank you. [Applause.]]
Hon members, when I speak to someone who is debating, I don't need your help. So, can you please keep those remarks to yourselves?
Hon Deputy Chairperson, allow me also to add my voice to those of thousands of South Africans expressing condolences to the Sisulu family. Mama Sisulu was an inspiration to the nation. May her soul rest in peace and rise in glory.
It is indeed an honour for me to debate Budget Vote No 24-Justice and Constitutional Development. The Department of Justice and Constitutional Development is to uphold and protect the rule of law, and to allow all South Africans an equal and accessible system of justice for a safer, more secure country in a constitutional democracy.
A rehabilitation programme needs to be implemented for people released on parole. When they are released, they are expected to go back into a society that they once lived in before committing a crime. It is not so easy for a person who is released on parole just to fit into the community that he or she left behind 10, 15, 20 or even more years before.
Finding employment is an impossible mission for such a person. Needless to say, when such persons are out, what happens next is that many of them end up committing another crime and finding their way back to jail because of not being able to adjust and not being given an opportunity to find a decent job.
There are few opportunities for people who have been released on parole. Some of them get involved in crime within the first few months of their release and commit another offence. The department needs to mentally prepare all people who will be released on parole for the challenges that are awaiting them once they are released.
I have a few of these cases in my constituency. It is not easy to keep them motivated and to try to assist them in finding employment. While they are in prison people's skills are developed, but unfortunately they are not utilised once they are released. Many thousands of rand are spent on different training and skills development programmes. This should be linked with community organisations, nongovernmental organisations and community- based organisations to pursue their development once they are released.
A big part of the budget is spent on the cost of transporting awaiting- trial detainees to and from courts for the postponement of cases. This can sometimes continue for months, if not years. A huge amount can be saved if awaiting-trail cases were resolved as quickly as possible. Section 159 of the Criminal Procedure Act, Act 51 of 1977, was amended, and this will resolve the unnecessary wastage.
Juvenile prisons are also a concern because so many kids become part of the awaiting-trial process and get exposed to prisons at a very young age. The awaiting-trial period should be speeded up, as some of these children are kept for longer periods then the actual period they should be kept for. The prisons are overcrowded and it is not a conducive place for many of the children to be in. Rehabilitation and skills development must also take place in juvenile prisons. The department needs to form a partnership with schools to help the kids to be accepted back into schools. Opportunities must be created by the department to improve their wellbeing once they are released.
The department's budget for Masters' services for the financial year 2011- 12 is R324 million. A training and education model needs to be implemented in local communities to teach them how the department operates and also how they can utilise it. The department needs to arrange workshops regarding the Masters' Offices in all communities. The community needs educational programme around what is encompassed by the Master's Office.
Some deceased estates take a long time to wind up. Improvements need to take place in this division to assist the families that remain behind. Maintenance and child support are a legal duty and the law must be enforced when that is expected. Legal advice is free for parents that need it, but unfortunately this is not as easily available as it should be.
South Africans can dial 17737 from their landlines for free. This is the important Presidential Hotline number. Unfortunately it is not as hot as it is supposed to be. The department has identified skills shortages and also the underrepresentation of women and people with disabilities. The staff's low productivity and low morale need to be improved to make this hotline hot, as this will assist with service delivery. This department was spearheaded by the President and it is not functioning properly. How do we expect South Africans to have faith in utilising the Presidential Hotline when it is actually not as hot as it should be?
In conclusion, I would like to take this opportunity to appeal to all South Africans, especially our members, who have not yet complied with the Regulation of Interception of Communications and Provision of Communication- related Information Act to do so now before 30 June. The finalisation of cases needs to improve in order to give everyone the opportunity of the right to a fair trial. I would like to quote the famous William E Gladstone, British statesman and prime minister, who said: "Justice delayed is justice denied." Also allow me to quote the following verse from Proverbs 21:15 in the Bible:
When justice is done, it brings joy to the righteous but terror to evildoers.
Siyabonga. [We thank you.] [Applause.]
Deputy Chairperson ... [Interjections.] Hon member, this is not a statement; it is a debate.
Let me first commend the Presidential Hotline, which is very hot, and also commend the department on progressively resolving the issues that have come out of that hotline.
We as the ANC cannot afford to rest on our achievements, but need to vigorously continue with our unwavering commitment to the pledge we made, which is to be found in the Constitution, that "South Africa belongs to all who live in it, united in our diversity."
The transformation process that we have embraced is intended to fulfil this undertaking. This commitment has in the past years of freedom afforded an ever-expanding mass of our people greater access to justice.
The 1997 Mafikeng conference, affirmed by the Polokwane conference, and reaffirmed by the national general council last year, stated that the ANC reiterated its commitment to adhering to the basic law of the land; to implementing both the letter and spirit of the Constitution, including the principle of multiparty democracy and the doctrine of the separation of powers; to upholding fundamental human rights for all citizens; to respecting the rights of linguistic, religious and cultural communities, and to striving for social equity within the context of correcting historical injustice.
The Harare Declaration stated:
South Africa shall have a new legal system which shall guarantee equality of all before the law.
It continued:
South Africa shall have an independent and nonracial judiciary.
We are convinced that the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development is on track to realising these noble aspirations of our forebears.
Even during this budget year it remains our goal to fulfil the mandate of the ANC's 52nd national conference, which is to establish a single, integrated, accessible and affordable court system; position the Constitutional Court as the country's apex court for all matters, constitutional and nonconstitutional; rationalise the High Court system into a single High Court; and align our traditional courts with our new constitutional dispensation and pay particular attention to the incorporation and development of our indigenous law. Hon Minister, the department's budget also must speak to all of these matters.
Our Constitution guarantees the right to equality before the law for everyone. This means that all South Africans are equally entitled, not only to recourse to the law, but also to full access to information so that they can understand their constitutional rights.
Hon Minister, access to justice embodies more than just the issue of legal representation in formal court proceedings. The notion of justice is also about the proximity of justice facilities to citizens and their communities, and about the length of court proceedings. It is about language, gender and victim support measures as well.
The Constitution expressly recognises 11 languages. The old practice - where English and Afrikaans were used exclusively in our courts - undermines the spirit of the Constitution. Hon Minister, ordinary South Africans interacting with the legal system still experience difficulties communicating in their language of choice. In many instances the interpretation services are inadequate. There are many examples where interpreters not only misinterpret the evidence given by accused persons, but also at times openly harass the accused.
Such practices, hon members, are inconsistent with the constitutional right to a fair trial. It is therefore necessary to review the current practices with regard to the use of language in court. The current language policy practised in courts is designed to benefit the presiding officers and not the litigants. The Constitution provides the right of access to courts and other independent tribunals or forums. Every litigant has the right to use their language in all matters.
At present, the state provides interpretation services in criminal cases. The state must investigate the means of providing interpretation services in civil matters.
Hon Minister, we are informed that there are currently nine ongoing projects involving the construction of new courts and office accommodation. That is very encouraging and is accepted. The expansion of the Supreme Court of Appeal in Bloemfontein has been completed - and we congratulate the department - while the new Katlehong and Ntuzuma Magistrates' Courts are under construction, as well as the High Courts in Polokwane and Mpumalanga. Deputy Chairperson, judicial appointments in South Africa, regarded by some as a major tool in the transformation of the judiciary in South Africa, often engender not only much interest but an equal amount of controversy, generally within South African society, and particularly among judges themselves. To fully appreciate the importance of this process and the interest it generates, it is necessary to view the process of the appointment of judges as integral to the transformation of the judiciary. That must, in turn, be viewed in its historical context and that of the transformation of South African society generally, as envisaged in the Constitution.
Hon Minister, courts must therefore function effectively so that judges can dispense justice to all most competently. Fundamental to this principle is that when judges are being appointed consideration must be given to the need for the judiciary broadly to reflect South Africa's racial and gender composition. We applaud the appointment of the first woman Judge President on 5 May last year. [Applause.]
We would like to draw the department's attention to what is happening in Pretoria. Pretoria's court system still has few African judges, and that must be attended to with haste, as well as some areas - in the Western Cape, of course - where the organisation of courts within the municipal boundaries will happen.
Deputy Chairperson, throughout the history of South Africa traditional leaders have established dispute resolution institutions. These institutions have, in general, been successful in resolving disputes in rural areas.
Hon Minister, with the repeal of the Black Administration Act of 1927 it is imperative for the department to urgently fast-track the processing of the Traditional Courts Bill, as presented here earlier on. The Bill will facilitate the conforming of the role of traditional institutions in the resolution of disputes affecting rural communities with the Constitution of the country.
Cabinet has approved a law that will create community service for legal graduates along similar lines to those of doctors. The Bill will provide a legal framework for the creation of community service. We as the ANC welcome the Cabinet's decision to have law graduates complete compulsory community legal service. Hon Minister, we want clear details going forward as to how far this will go and how long it will take for us to see in its vision the resolution of what is happening now.
The department should continue to protect the principled values contained in our democratic Constitution. Together we can do more. The ANC supports the Vote.
Deputy Chairperson, first of all I would like to align myself with those who have paid tribute to Mama Nontsikelelo Albertina Sisulu, a lady who worked selflessly to serve this country.
Hon Deputy Chairperson, all of us know that "justice delayed is justice denied". We also know that every country is judged on the quality of its justice. If the department fails in this regard, the whole country fails. The history of South Africa has been mainly a struggle against injustice. We cannot return to that situation again.
In order for justice to prevail we need to look at what is happening in our magistrates' courts. That is where the bulk of our citizens access justice. It is perturbing that in so many courts those dispensing justice are doing so in an acting capacity.
Deputy Chair, I would also like to mention this. Chapter 9 institutions are cornerstones in the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development. If we want to be known and respected for the legacy we are leaving, we must work like the honourable late Mama Sisulu - she worked selflessly. If we want to do that, we must do what Chapter 9 says. We must protect our Constitution, because Chapter 9 protects our country. We can't still have a situation where a public prosecutor, while doing her work, is followed into the office by the police in order to intimidate her. The Deputy Minister has just mentioned that it is difficult, because of some of the issues, to transform the homeland situation. What are we doing at the present time? We are now 15 years old. We must use all means to try to have our courts running in Venda, Shangaan and Xitsonga - this thing - so that when you enter there you will know that you are safe.
Magisterial boundaries are still a problem in courts. These things must be revisited. We cannot go on like this.
Finally, I would like to say - what exactly is ... [Inaudible.] ... - is that 70%, you said, is for service delivery. I want this thing to be focused on the police boundaries. I know that the relationship between the police and the public prosecutors is not forthcoming. The starting time of the courts largely reminds us that you were just telling us that ... [Inaudible.] ... that we need such type ... [Inaudible.]
The Limpopo High Court is a song. We don't want a song; we want action. Seriously, stop promising, Minister, and do the work. I thank you.
Deputy Chairperson, hon Deputy Minister, hon members of the NCOP and distinguished guests, at the Stellenbosch conference of 2002 the president of the ANC in his address pointed out that while there had been progress in the transformation of other branches of government, the same could not be said about the judiciary.
Furthermore, the conference itself noted the need to speed up the transformation of the judiciary to ensure representivity and access to justice for all, especially rural communities. The conference resolved, amongst other undertakings, to pay special attention to the speeding-up of legislation to create the grievance procedures to deal with complaints against judicial officers; and to expedite the transformation of the judiciary to create a more representative, competent, sensitive, humane and responsive judiciary. Undoubtedly the ANC has moved faster in certain areas in attaining the revolutionary goals set out in the Freedom Charter and other guiding documents.
Justice as an overarching concept is broad. Central to it in our constitutional state is the idea that ordinary citizens should not, for financial reasons, be unable to access courts. The Constitution guarantees access to courts and other independent tribunals or forums. Unless ordinary people have access to courts and other independent forums or tribunals to resolve their disputes, the vision of a society based on the rule of law, as envisaged in the Constitution, will not be realised.
The transformation of the judiciary is a constitutional imperative. It is necessary and it is inevitable. The race and gender composition of the Bench is not the only factor of judiciary transformation, and it is not an end in itself, but has an important relevance for society as a whole and for the competence and effectiveness of the judiciary.
To put it plainly, the picture remains wholly unsatisfactory, despite the passage of time. In a society such as ours, where patriarchy is so deeply entrenched, adversely affecting the everyday lives of so many women, including women in law, the strategic value of women's participation on the Bench and in positions of power and authority should not be underestimated.
Their development management style, the influence of the unique perspectives they bring to the adjudicative task and even the mere symbolism of their presence there, could bring enormous returns for the transformation process itself and respect for women in society at large.
The need for women, both in the judiciary as a whole and in leadership positions in particular, cannot be exaggerated. Although we have come a long way, we must agree that we have just scratched the surface. We must step up our efforts. Some things must change. Mindful of the need to treat the delicate task of judicial transformation with the necessary sensitivity and care, the position of women on the Bench has become rather desperate. That calls for our measures and approaches to become much more creative. The previous tabling of the Traditional Courts Bill, which is going to be reintroduced in the NCOP, as you have said, will enhance the essential role of traditional leaders and customary law in the advancement and consolidation of democracy and justice.
The Bill is set against a continental imperative to undo the distortions effected in African traditional justice systems by decades of colonialism and apartheid, and offer a path of renewed growth and development. As the ANC, we urge you to fast-track the processing of the traditional courts to ensure consistency in the processing of cases in current traditional courts.
The introduction of compulsory community service for candidate legal professionals will not only serve to benefit the poor and vulnerable, but also go a long way in developing socially conscious legal graduates who understand the law in the light of the vision of our Constitution and the goals of transformation. As the ANC, we believe the need for legal professionals to provide legal services to the poor has been critical for the realisation of equality before the law, equal access and benefit of the law. These graduates will at the same time gain the practical experience already required of them while performing such services.
I need at this point to thank you for listening to the voices of the people in the Eastern Cape, particularly in Grahamstown, about the High Court. Although we understand that transformation must be taken forward, it is important for the ANC to reflect that it is governed, as Abraham Lincoln said, "by the people for the people". It is not a party that listens to itself - I think you have demonstrated that in the Eastern Cape in this case.
Therefore, as the ANC we support that the Budget Vote of the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development be passed. Thank you.
Deputy Chairperson, at the outset I want to thank all the members for the very positive and constructive spirit in which this budget has been debated in the NCOP. I also want to reiterate our thanks to the members of the select committee for the ongoing co-operation, support and oversight that we receive from them. Thank you, hon member Mofokeng and members of the select committee.
I want to touch very briefly on a number of points that have been made. Firstly, I want to thank the hon Mofokeng for the manner in which he outlined so clearly the vision that continues to guide us - that of consolidating the vision contained in the Constitution - and for giving us the history that led to the formulation of that vision. I think it is also appropriate that as we move towards celebrating the centenary of the ANC in 2012 we highlight the development of the vision of constitutional democracy, human rights and access to justice that has developed over that century. With regard to the question of access to justice and the Constitution, I would like to share one anecdote with members.
Recently I was in the Western Cape, participating in a maintenance imbizo in Blue Downs. It was attended by about 800 people, mainly women. Blue Downs is a poor, working-class area. The Department of Justice and Constitutional Development and a number of other departments, such as Social Development, the National Prosecuting Authority, NPA, and some of the university clinics, had tables there.
After the event I went to speak to the staff who had been at those tables. I asked them: "What issues did people raise, and what information did they take away?" Obviously, because the forum related to maintenance most of the questions were related to maintenance. However, they said there was a very important trend that they had noticed there, and also at the celebration of Human Rights Day, which had taken place here in Cape Town. The thing that members were most interested in, the thing that they all took away, was copies of the Constitution. I think that sends out a very clear message that for all people in our society, rich and poor, the Constitution has become a central guiding document in their lives.
People no longer view the Constitution as an academic legal document; they view it as something that has a direct impact on their day-to-day lives. I think it's up to us as public representatives and as departments to build on that and make sure that people have access to justice, to our courts and to all of the institutions that help make real the rights that are set out in the Constitution.
The questions about the independence of our courts which were raised by the hon Mofokeng are absolutely vital. That is why we have embarked on the process of giving the judiciary greater control over the administration of our courts. That is also the reason why the President has established the office of the Chief Justice with the status of a department.
The issue of job creation is very important. That is why the Minister has indicated to the department that he wants all vacant positions in the department to be filled as a matter of urgency. However, it is also through the way in which we as the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development do our work. We also promote job creation.
Hon Abrahams, you raised a number of very important and valid points regarding Correctional Services. On a lighter note, I can say that before 1994 the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development was the Department of Justice and Correctional Services under the late Minister Kobie Coetzee, but that is not the case any more. As I said, that's on a lighter note. [Interjections.]
On a serious note, the Minister of Justice and Constitutional Development is the co-ordinator of the Justice, Crime Prevention and Security cluster and we have an extremely tight and close working relationship with all departments in the cluster. That is why, if you were to raise issues of justice with the Minister of Police or of Correctional Services, I'm sure that he or she would also be able to respond. That is why I have no hesitation about talking on Correctional Services matters.
I can say that the Department of Correctional Services does have programmes that focus on rehabilitation. One of the key outcomes in the performance agreement that has been signed by the cluster and the President is the whole question of reducing recidivism and increasing the rehabilitation programmes in our correctional facilities.
I would also like to say that through the Child Justice Act all of those departments in the cluster are co-operating and have developed a national implementation plan and protocols to ensure that children who are in conflict with the law are treated in the manner that our Constitution prescribes and their interests are paramount. I think we have seen the very quick manner in which the Child Justice Act has come into operation. The very first cases that have been dealt with in terms of that Act bear testimony to that.
As far as the hotline is concerned, I would concur with the hon Mokgobi that this hotline is indeed very hot. [Applause.] On the part of the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development our response rate stands at 65% at the moment. There were 80 matters relating to Justice that were logged, and 70 of those were queries. The other 10 were problem areas that were finalised within weeks.
Deputy Chairperson, I hear an unpleasant noise there! I would have wanted the opportunity to deal at length with each of the issues that have been raised, but time does not seem to permit that.
In conclusion, let me say to the hon Makhubela that I was a little bit disappointed. I forgot for a split second that I was in the NCOP and that seating is according to province and not according to party and when I saw him sitting where he was, I started to get very happy! But maybe the future will bring good things. [Interjections.]
With regard to the Limpopo High Court, there is, in fact, a magistrate's court building which has been revamped and is operating as a High Court. Also, the construction of the building is already 30% complete. As the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development, we sing as we work! So, our songs are not promises, but we sing in order to encourage ourselves to speed up the work. It is anticipated that that court will be finished by 2012.
Let me also deal with the issue of language. The department has implemented - if my memory serves me correctly - 22 pilot projects throughout the country, in which indigenous languages are used in those courts. This is in order to test how we can expand that further. We also want to do away with an absurd situation where in a court in the middle of a predominantly Venda, Xitsonga or Zulu-speaking area, the magistrate, the prosecutor, the defence attorney, the accused, and everyone's home language is, for example, Tshivenda, but in court they come and speak to each other in English! We want to move away from that absurd situation.
Hon members, thank you very much for a very constructive and engaging debate. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.