Thank you, Deputy Speaker. Hon member, the answer is 1 497 police officers. When a member loses an official SAPS firearm, he or she must apply, in terms of Standing Order (Stores) 48, for a new firearm to be issued on his or her personal inventory. Alternatively, a firearm from the station inventory may be issued to the member, if he or she complies with the prescribed criteria in terms of competency and fitness.
The commander of the station or unit under whose command the member serves must then evaluate the application before a firearm permit may be issued to the member. The commander must take the prescribed criteria and the circumstances that led to the loss of a previous firearm issued to the member into consideration, before he or she makes a decision on the matter.
However, in addition to these processes, I have instructed police management to ensure that each time a police officer loses his weapon, there must be a full investigation into the circumstances surrounding the loss. I have instructed that the police inspectorate be tasked with the responsibility of conducting such investigations. I thank you.
Thank you, Deputy Speaker. May I firstly apologise on behalf of Rev Meshoe for his absence.
Arising from your response, hon Minister, it is clear that the issue of lost firearms is a matter of grave concern to all of us, given that such lost firearms usually end up in the hands of criminals who use them to commit crime. We are grateful for what you have advised us, but 1 497 is clearly an alarming number. We welcome the fact that you are taking additional steps.
You might not be in a position to do so now, but could you possibly advise us whether disciplinary action is instituted in cases, and if so how many? Then, of course, could you advise us whether the police department is taking, generally, steps to improve management and control mechanisms in order to reduce the high number of firearms lost in the Police Service as we go forward? Thank you, Deputy Speaker.
Deputy Speaker, yes, I fully agree with the hon member that this is an alarming number. Over and above that, and with all the disciplinary steps, etc, that are in place, we have felt that there has to be an overhaul of this particular area. In fact, the entire Central Firearm Registry, CFR, has to be overhauled.
That is why, in November last year, we publicly pointed out the gaps we had discovered within the CFR. We also indicated what we thought should be done to turn around the entire CFR. That would have included even issues of how the entire environment had been managed.
Those things are being put in place and are being effected in order to ensure exactly what the member has said, so that we don't end up with legal firearms - be they from the police or civilians - in the hands of the wrong people. Thank you very much.
Dankie, agb Adjunkspeaker. [Thank you, hon Deputy Speaker.]
Hon Minister, the Police Service has about 12 control measures, because the police controls more than 264 000 firearms. Despite the 12 control measures, they have lost more than 20 000 firearms. One of those control measures is the Firearms Control Act.
Now, when I as a civilian lose my firearm, I am criminally charged and, if it is found that I have been negligent, I lose my licence and everything. Hon Minister, why does this not apply to members of the police? The police are supposed to set the example.
The Firearms Control Act was passed by Parliament and says it is the civilians that do not control their firearms, thereby enhancing crime. Now it seems as if it is the police who are increasing crime. How many officers have been charged under the Firearms Control Act? If not, why not? Thank you, Chair.
Thank you, hon Deputy Speaker. Starting with the last question, the member knows that it is one that should be asked properly, because, standing here, I can't say how many officers have been charged. That information can be provided to the member as he has asked.
Hon member, it is precisely when we introduce changes that they have to be introduced throughout the entire environment. Remember that, over and above police officers having individual firearms, there is also the registry itself. Because of that, we have put systems in place to ensure that firearms are being dealt with, not only from the registry, but also at the level of officers. In future, we are no longer going to issue firearms to the police stations, but rather to individual members, along with Integrated Ballistics Identification System, IBIS, testing, to ensure that an individual is responsible for a firearm.
Concerning the Firearms Control Act and what may seem to be the gaps within it, it is well within the powers of Members of Parliament to propose changes and amendments to the Act itself. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Deputy Speaker. Following on your reply, Minister, I think the issuing of personalised firearms to police officers would be a measure supported by this side. With regard to your statement about competency tests that are done, do you remember one case in which a police officer, as a result of negligence in handling a firearm, was declared incompetent to handle a firearm and was then allocated a particular responsibility within the police office?
Hon member, that's a very important question you have asked. However, you would know that you were testing the waters with this particular question. It is a question which, if asked, would be responded to. It might not be just one case, as you have asked, but the question would be welcomed if you asked it. Thank you very much.
Thank you, hon Deputy Speaker. Hon Minister, I must say that I am glad to see that there are many parties who are supporting the proliferation of small firearms, unlike in the past, even if they place emphasis on the firearms of the police.
Minister, you have mentioned the IBIS testing that the police are introducing, and I think it would be helpful if you could explain what the IBIS testing entails.
Secondly, can you indicate to us whether the police are implementing the separate marking of the different parts of firearms, in order to ensure that, when firearms are stolen from the police or when they get lost, it will not be possible to use the parts afterwards?
On your question, hon member, yes, together with the IBIS testing. Deputy Speaker, I think the member made a mistake earlier on when she spoke about the proliferation of small arms rather than saying ending the proliferation of small arms. Is that it? Thank you. [Laughter.]
Official duties of security personnel attending to Judge President, with specific reference to tasting of his water
7. Ms M Smuts (DA) asked the Minister of Justice and Constitutional Development:
(1) Whether the security personnel attending the Judge President of the Western Cape, Judge John Hlope, tastes his water before he (a) ascends the bench, (b) drinks water in his office and (c) drinks or eats at any other place; if so,
(2) whether there have been any attempts to poison (a) the Judge President or (b) any other judge; if so, what are the relevant details;
(3) whether such activities form part of the official duties of the security personnel attending to the Judge President; if not, (a) what are the (i) duties of the security personnel and (ii) costs involved in providing these services and (b) which department or state entity is responsible for carrying these costs; if so, on which law or regulation is relied on in making provision for such protection to the Judge President? NO974E
Deputy Speaker, the answer to the first part of the question is that I have no knowledge of the information that is being asked, nor am I aware of such practices. The answer to the second part of the question is that no incidents have been reported to the department. Therefore, the third part of the question is not applicable.
However, I just want to mention that the duties of close protection officers that are attached to the judiciary are to provide them with protection and security. Information about the job descriptions of these security officials is obtainable at the Department of Police.
With regard to the cost of the vehicle, it is about R25 500, and cellular phones about R4 900 that is being paid from the budget of the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development. But salaries and other related benefits can be obtained from the Department of Police. The decision to provide such protection services was taken by Cabinet in 2004.
Madam Speaker, arising out of the hon Minister's reply, we heard the argument made earlier today that any South African can ask for a threat assessment and security services. That was an attempt to justify security services given to Mr Julius Malema. We would not like to see the Judge President of the Western Cape being treated as a kind of Julius Malema of the judiciary. We find the Minister's answers lacking in detailed information.
With respect, sir, if no attempt has been proven, demonstrable or otherwise, or reported to your good self, to poison the Judge President's water, then where is the credible threat lurking in the water jug on the bench? How are services justified, which include evidence seen by what is described as a "heaving pack of journalists" in the Mail & Guardian last December, that security services are tasting the water of the Judge President of the Western Cape? We would like better answers please, sir.
The question defies logic. I have indicated that this is not a special matter for the Western Cape. All judges president have similar protection through out the Republic of South Africa. Maybe, if the colleague is not happy with the services that are provided to the judiciary, she must say so, but not single out one judge president.
Plans to extend jurisdiction of regional courts
21. Mr J B Sibanyoni (ANC) asked the Minister of Justice and Constitutional Development: What plans are in place to extend the jurisdiction of regional courts to include child and family law matters? NO990E
Deputy Speaker, the answer is that the regional courts have jurisdiction to deal with divorce matters and matrimonial property matters, flowing from such divorce matters.
It is not the intention of the Act to confer jurisdiction in relation to maintenance and children's court to the regional courts. It is our view in the department that these matters are appropriately located in the district courts, as these relate more to service delivery matters than to complex legal issues.
The district courts have the necessary capacity and the infrastructure to deal with the voluminous maintenance and children's enquiries. Regional courts, by their own nature, are entrusted with the trial of serious cases which are criminal or civil in nature that require an in-depth interpretation and application of the law.
Therefore, there are no immediate plans to confer regional courts with jurisdiction to deal with maintenance matters, children's court and domestic violence applications under the Maintenance Act and the Children's Act. Thank you.
Integration of all eligible members of MK, the SADF and armed wings of the PAC and Azapo into the SANDF
19. Mr V B Ndlovu (IFP) asked the Minister of Defence and Military Veterans:
Whether all eligible members of Mkhonto we Sizwe (MK), the SA Defence Force (SADF) and the armed wings of the Pan Africanist Congress (PAC) and Azanian People's Organisation (Azapo) have been integrated into the SA National Defence Force within the period specified by the Act; if not, (a) why have they not all been integrated and (b) why was the integration not completed by 31 March 2002, as specified in the Termination of Integration Intake Act, Act 44 of 2001; if so, how many?