Order! I now call upon the hon M Mabuza. Hon member, just remain seated, please. Yes, hon member? [Interjections.] Order, hon members! I indicated at the beginning of the proceedings that only the microphones in the front were working. So, hon member, please move to one of those microphones so that what you say can be recorded. [Interjections.] Order!
Thank you, Chairperson. While the hon Minister was speaking, an ANC member took a photo using his cellphone. It's the member directly behind the Minister, in the back row and with a red tie on. He took a photo while the Minister was speaking. [Interjections.]
Order, hon members! Order! [Interjections.] Hon members, order! [Interjections.] Hon members, order! Members on my left: I do not require your assistance. If I do, I will ask for it. Thank you. [Interjections.] Order! Hon members are aware that the taking of photos in the House is not allowed. I ask the hon member to delete that image. While the Rule on the use of ICT equipment has been relaxed, that was done essentially to assist members with their speeches and not for any other purpose. So, could we abide by that, please?
Hon Chairperson, Minister of Public Works, members of executive councils present here, hon members, officials from the Department of Public Works, ladies and gentlemen, in the working environment, integrity, commitment and respect can allow a human being to be productive, content and effective in doing his or her work.
Minister, your efforts to assist the department in making sure that the systems are in place and that there is renewed commitment will allow the department to carry out its mandate. The committee commends the Minister in undertaking a consultation process to ensure that all members of the department and stakeholders participate in the turnaround strategy.
The main policy priorities of the department are well known and are set out in the 2012 state of the nation address, as well as in the department's strategic plan and annual performance plan. The areas of focus for Public Works remain the creation of job opportunities and poverty alleviation through the Expanded Public Works Programme, infrastructure development, an accurate and accessible immovable asset register, as well as skills development.
Government has the largest immovable asset portfolio in the country. The department is the custodian of government's immovable assets and is also responsible for providing accommodation to national departments. In the past few years, the department has relied on the private sector to fulfil a portion of this responsibility. However, the department plans to change this and to reduce its leasing portfolio by rehabilitating, constructing and upgrading its buildings. Examples are the construction and upgrading of 205 departmental accommodation sites; the management of 54 dolomite risk areas; the redevelopment of 154 border - post centres that consist of office space and accommodation for officials; the upgrading and construction of 150 prestige accommodation sites; and the development of five national government precincts. But, hon Minister, what plans are being put in place by the department to make sure that the programme of reducing its lease portfolio and implementing these capital-intensive infrastructure programmes are realised?
The committee is also aware of the commitments that have been made by the department to address the concerns raised by the Auditor-General, particularly the disclaimer of opinion for the 2010-11 financial year. The committee notes particularly the underspending by the Immovable Asset Management programme and the EPWP - two of the main delivery programmes of the department. This underspending affects the priorities of job creation, skills development and infrastructure development.
The Auditor-General highlighted underspending of R235 million, which prevented the department from achieving its objective to fast-track the construction of selected schools and energy-efficient interventions. This speaks directly to the reduction of mud schools and unsafe structures, aimed at providing schoolchildren with decent and safe facilities in which to learn. The other objective not achieved is the implementation of energy- saving interventions, which is critical to prevent a situation in which we again have rolling blackouts. This also forms part of the response to climate change.
In this regard, Agrment South Africa is one of the department's entities that has responded to the reduction of unsafe structures and to improving energy efficiency by certifying innovative products. These products are cheaper and faster to use when building than conventional construction materials and have been used in building two schools in the Eastern Cape, which the committee visited in 2011.
The department should therefore expedite the tabling of legislation to constitute Agrment South Africa as a juristic person. This will assist it in continuing to carry out the role of certifying innovative technology. These technologies, as I've already mentioned, are used to assist in reducing the large backlog of mud schools and unsafe structures. This form of construction requires very little skill. In addition, the technology's lifespan in relation to conventional construction methods remains untested.
The committee is aware that this model does not adhere to the core principles of the EPWP, such as labour intensity, skills development and offering work opportunities of longer duration. A balance will therefore have to be found between rapidly reducing the large infrastructure backlogs, while, at the same time, ensuring the use of labour intensity on projects and the transfer of skills.
In addition, R500 million was underspent in terms of the infrastructure grant to provinces and municipalities. The department reported to the committee that the underspending in this area, which is the result of underreporting and poor performance by bodies eligible for the incentive grant, has been addressed by providing technical assistance, such as data capturers, where needed. It is hoped that these interventions will improve the accessing of the incentive grant, which will translate into the creation of more work opportunities for unemployed and unskilled people.
As we are aware, the halving of poverty and unemployment is one of the key concerns of government and therefore every effort that is made to address this is welcomed. The contribution of the EPWP non-state sector, with the Independent Development Trust as the implementing agent, has been one of the successes of the programme, as reported by beneficiaries of nonprofit organisations and faith-based organisations during the Non-State Sector Summit held in Johannesburg in April 2012. The committee recommends that the participants in the nonstate sector be provided with a platform from which they can share their best practices with other sectors and come up with strategies to increase the areas they are working in. Two other entities reporting to the department, namely the Construction Industry Development Board and the Council for the Built Environment, also assist in implementing the department's key priorities. The announcement in the 2012 state of the nation address of the massive multiyear capital infrastructure development budget is an opportunity to ensure the development and participation of the emerging contractor sector in these programmes. The large numbers of contractors registered on the Construction Industry Development Board database can be provided with an opportunity to improve their skills. Contractors who move from the lower levels of Grades 1 to 3 up to Grades 4 to 9 will provide a wider pool of skilled and professional contractors, which can be called upon to address the large backlog in infrastructure.
In addition, the CBE, apart from the responsibility of facilitating the transformation of the built environment, is also expected to strengthen and implement a public protection regime. In this regard, it has six professional councils responsible for the registration of professionals in the built environment. These built environment specialists, such as architects, engineers and quantity surveyors, will be required to successfully implement the government's infrastructure programme.
The committee therefore believes that the Council for the Built Environment Act, Act No 43 of 2 000, needs to be amended to include enforcement powers. The strengthening of the CBE's enforcement role is intended to strengthen its management capacity and to assist in the transformation of the built environment professions.
For all the above programmes to be successfully implemented, hon Minister, governance issues and proper procurement measures, as well as management and reporting systems have to be in place. As we are aware, the Auditor- General made a number of recommendations for remedial action to be taken by the department, following the disclaimer of opinion. What progress has been made to date in some of the areas highlighted by the Auditor-General? The highlighted areas include proper financial planning and management, reporting on feasible and attainable targets, and improving the procurement processes.
Hon Minister, only once these issues have been addressed can there be real progress. The committee is encouraged by the priorities that the department intends to implement as noted above, particularly the tightening of its financial controls and procurement processes, the filling of key vacancies at management and technical levels, and priority being given to the completion of the Immovable Asset Register.
However, the real concern of the committee is that the department's programme might be affected by factors such as its current skills shortage, the implementation of its turnaround strategy and the forecast made by National Treasury that the country will see 2,7% growth in 2012, instead of the 7% required to see real growth in the country.
Finally, I'd like to thank all members of the portfolio committee, the Department of Public Works officials, all stakeholders, the committee staff and you, Minister, for the smooth working relationship. Although we as the committee know that is not always smooth sailing all the time, the lyrics of R Kelly's song go: "Everything's Gonna Be Alright". The ANC supports the budget. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mnr die Voorsitter, die mandaat van di departement is om staatseiendom te bestuur ... [Tussenwerpsels.] ... en in die staat se akkommodasiebehoeftes te voorsien. [Tussenwerpsels.] Dit is die staat se eiendomsagent.
Die derduisende eiendomme wat die staat besit, is miljarde rande werd. Trouens, di departement se eiendomsportefeulje is sewe keer groter as di van sekere privaatfirmas. Die departement sit letterlik op 'n goudmyn, maar hierdie departement het probleme. Groot probleme! Minister Themba Nxesi s self ... (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Ms A M DREYER: Chairperson, this department's mandate is to manage state property ... [Interjections.] ... and to provide for the state's accommodation needs. [Interjections.] It is the state's estate agent.
The thousands of properties owned by the state are worth billions of rand. In fact, this department's estate portfolio is seven times larger than those of certain private firms. This department is literally sitting on a gold mine, but this department is experiencing problems. Big problems! Minister Themba Nxesi himself says ...]
This department is in the intensive-care unit.
Die direkteur-generaal s:
If MPs knew the full extent of the problems, we would be shocked.
[Tussenwerpsels.] Om die waarheid te s, hierdie departement is disfunksioneel. Wanfunksionerende instellings vergemaklik egter korrupsie. [Tussenwerpsels.] Die direkteur-generaal bevestig dit ook wanneer sy s:
The scale of corruption is so wide and it goes so deep, it is scary.
[Tussenwerpsels.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.) [The director-general says:
If MPs knew the full extent of the problems, we would be shocked.
[Interjections.] To tell the truth, this department is dysfunctional. Malfunctioning institutions, however, facilitate corruption. [Interjections.] The director-general also confirms this when she says:
The scale of corruption is so wide and it goes so deep, it is scary.
[Interjections.] How did this happen? How did this happen? A member of the National Planning Commission, Prof Karl von Holdt, ascribes the current disintegration of public institutions to a lack of professionalism and an ambivalence towards skills and budgetary discipline.
Prof Ivor Chipkin of the University of the Witwatersrand says that the ANC government has replaced the basic, but unglamorous, tasks of planning, organising, staffing, reporting and budgeting with an ideologically driven management system. [Interjections.]
The National Planning Commission underlines the importance of a capable state in delivering quality services. Without a capable state, there can be no service delivery.
Die verval van dienslewering in hierdie departement het skrikwekkende gevolge vir dienslewering, en ek noem slegs twee voorbeelde. [The decline of service delivery in this department has appalling consequences for service delivery, and I'll name just two examples.]
A crisis is brewing in Du Noon, where there is a critical need for a new community health care centre. In 2009 already, the Western Cape provincial government identified a piece of land belonging to the national Department of Public Works. After repeated requests, access to the land for planning purposes was achieved. However, to address the critical need for health care services in Du Noon in the interim, the City of Cape Town is now, at great cost, transporting patients to the clinic in Table View, which is some distance away.
Tweedens, Minister, toe die DA regering in die Wes-Kaap bewus word van 'n dringende behoefte aan 'n nuwe laer- en horskool in Grabouw, het hulle dadelik geskikte grond, onder beheer van die nasionale Departement van Openbare Werke, gedentifiseer. [Tussenwerpsels.]
Na drie jaar se pogings om oordrag te kry, deur formele briewe, foonoproepe, e-posse, persoonlike ontmoetings met opeenvolgende Ministers - soos die Premier van die Wes-Kaap wat self met Minister Geoff Doidge gepraat het - en vier geskeduleerde maar gekanselleerde afsprake met Minister Gwen Mahlangu-Nkabinde, is Minister Nxesi se antwoord aan Premier Zille slegs ...: (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Secondly, Minister, when the DA government in the Western Cape became aware of an urgent need for a new primary and high school in Grabouw, they immediately identified suitable land, which is under the control of the national Department of Public Works.
After three years of attempting to obtain transfer by way of formal letters, telephone calls, e-mails, personal meetings with successive Ministers - such as the Premier of the Western Cape herself speaking to Minister Geoff Doidge - and four scheduled but cancelled appointments with Minister Gwen Mahlangu-Nkabinde, Minister Nxesi's answer to Premier Zille is merely ...]:
The issue is still in progress.
[Tussenwerpsels.] Op 12 April vanjaar skryf Provinsiale Ministers Robin Carlisle, wat daarbo in die gallery sit ... [Tussenwerpsels.] ... en Donald Grant saam 'n brief aan Minister Nxesi, waarin hulle die ernstige krisis weereens onder sy aandag bring en dringend vra vir okkupasie van die grond, hangende die toestemming tot oordrag, sodat hulle onmiddelik met die konstruksie van die skool kan begin om dit teen einde volgende jaar te kan voltooi.
Twee weke later het Minister Nxesi egter nog nie aan die versoek voldoen om binne 14 dae te reageer nie ... [Tussenwerpsels.] ... waarna die twee Wes- Kaapse provinsiale Ministers vir Minister Nxesi weer ernstig versoek het om hom dringend te ontmoet. Tot dusver was hulle onsuksesvol ... [Tussenwerpsels.] ... en nou oorweeg hulle ander opsies. Intussen sit 600 leerders sonder klaskamers by die oorvol Umyezo Wama Apile-skool. [Tussenwerpsels.]
Die jammerlike verbrokkeling van dienslewering in di departement is direk daarvoor verantwoordelik dat die armstes en die kwesbaarstes onder ons die ergste benadeel word. [Tussenwerpsels.] Is die Minister dan verbaas dat ... [Gelag.] ... in sy eie woorde, (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Interjections.] [On 12 April of this year, Provincial Ministers Robin Carlisle, who is seated up there in the gallery ... [Interjections.] ... and Donald Grant together wrote a letter to Minister Nxesi, once again bringing this serious crisis to his attention and urgently requesting occupation of the land, pending approval for transfer, so that they could immediately commence with the construction of the school in order to have it completed by the following year.
However, two weeks later Minister Nxesi had not yet acceded to the request to react within 14 days ... [Interjections.]... after which the two Western Cape provincial Ministers once again requested an urgent meeting with Minister Nxesi. Up to now they have been unsuccessful ... [Interjections.] ... and they are now considering other options. Meanwhile 600 learners are left without classrooms at the overcrowded Umyezo Wama Apile school. [Interjections.]
The woeful disintegration of service delivery in this department is directly responsible for the poorest and most vulnerable among us being the worst prejudiced. [Interjections.] Does it surprise the Minister that ... [Laughter.] ... in his own words,]
Nobody wants to associate themselves with this department. Our major clients are running away from us because they don't get the service they expect. [Interjections.]
Die vraag is nou, kan ons di departement met ons belastinggeld vertrou? Die begroting vir administrasie, wat personeelsalarisse insluit, groei met 15%, terwyl die departement erken dat hulle topswaar is en proporsioneel te veel senior bestuurspersoneel het.
Die item Regeringsonthale ... [Tussenwerpsels.] ... met ander woorde, partytjies ... [Gelag.] ... onder die program Aanvullende Dienste groei met 50%, terwyl die toewysing vir infrastruktuur met slegs 3% groei, waarskynlik omdat die departement in die vorige boekjaar 55% van die geld vir infrastruktuur nie bestee het nie. Dit lyk dus of partytjies belangriker is as infrastruktuur. [Tussenwerpsels.]
'n Verder verdoemende feit is dat, weens die komplekse aard van die foute in die departement se finansile state, ouditfooie van R26 miljoen tot R31 miljoen toegeneem het. [Tussenwerpsels.] Soos die DG s: (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[The question is, can we trust this department with our tax money? The budget for administration, which includes staff salaries, has increased by 15%, while the department admits that it is top heavy and proportionally has too many senior management staff.
The item Government Functions ... [Interjections.] ... in other words, parties ... [Laughter.] under the programme Supplementary Services has increased by 50%, while the allocation to infrastructure has only increased by 3%, probably because in the previous financial year the department did not spend 55% of the funding for infrastructure. It would therefore seem as if parties were more important than infrastructure. [Interjections.]
A further damning fact is that, because of the complex nature of mistakes in the department's financial statements, auditing fees have increased from R26 million to R31 million. [Interjections.] As the DG says: "If this department were a business, it would have been bankrupt." [Interjections.]
Openbare Werke kan werk soos in die Wes-Kaap, waar begrotings nie op eie status of partytjies toespits nie, maar die regte prioriteite weerspiel. [Tussenwerpsels.]
Byvoorbeeld ... [Tussenwerpsels.] Luister hier! Provinsiale Minister Robin Carlisle se begroting vir sy eie ministerile kantoor is vandag 20% kleiner as twee jaar gelede toe hy sy pos aanvaar het. [Tussenwerpsels.] Luister! Teenoor die nasionale departement se onderbesteding op infrastruktuur, het die begroting vir infrastruktuur in die Wes-Kaap met 36% gegroei. [Tussenwerpsels.]
Provinsiale Minister Carlisle erken dat sy departement nie maklik is om te bestuur nie, maar hy het dit nogtans op die pad na sukses geplaas deur basiese beginsels van toegewyde personeel, harde werk en aandag aan detail toe te pas. [Tussenwerpsels.]
Om die DA se steun te kry, moet die Minister ten minste drie kernprobleme oplos. Eerstens is daar die ernstige vaardigheidskrisis wat die departement erg belemmer. Die regering se rasbeheptheid het talle kundiges verdryf. Ander, soos mnr Hennie Smook van die Noord-Kaap, 'n spesialis-ingenieur met jare ervaring en talle toekennings van die departement self, is onregmatig afgedank. 'n Hofbevel verplig die departement om mnr Smook weer in sy pos aan te stel, maar die departement ignoreer dit. [Tussenwerpsels.] Hy wil bitter graag sy pos terug h, terwyl die departement met 'n vaardigheidskrisis sit. Minister Nxesi, hoe verklaar u dit? U het tog self ges: (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Public Works could operate as it does in the Western Cape, where budgets are not focused on one's own status or parties, but reflect the correct priorities. [Interjections.]
For instance ... [Interjections.] Listen to me! Provincial Minister Robin Carlisle's budget for his own ministerial office is 20% smaller today than it was two years ago when he took office. [Interjections.] Listen! Compared to the national department's underexpenditure on infrastructure, the budget for infrastructure in the Western Cape has increased by 36%. [Interjections.]
Provincial Minister Carlisle admits that his department is not easy to run, but he has nevertheless placed it on the road to success by applying basic principles of dedicated staff, hard work and attention to detail. [Interjections.]
To gain the DA's support, the Minister needs to resolve three core issues. Firstly, there is the serious competency crisis that is badly hampering the department. Government's obsession with race has chased away many experts. Others, like Mr Hennie Smook of the Northern Cape, a specialist engineer with years of experience and many awards from the department itself, have been wrongfully dismissed.
A court order has compelled the department to reinstate Mr Smook in his post, but the department has ignored this. [Interjections.] He would dearly like to have his post back, while the department is stuck with a competency crisis. Minister Nxesi, how do you explain this? It was you who said:]
This department is a technical department. It requires skilled people such as architects, engineers and quantity surveyors, yet this department has almost none.
[Interjections.]
Die tweede kernprobleem is onrelmatighede met die verhuring van eiendomme. In talle gevalle ontbreek huurkontrakte, word huurgeld, eiendomsbelasting asook water- en elektrisiteitsrekeninge nie betaal nie, of is die huurbedrag aan die privaateienaar, oftewel die ANC-kader, buitensporig hoog. Dit lei tot grootskaalse korrupsie, soos met die huurskandaal van die veelbesproke polisiegebou in die middestad van Pretoria. [Tussenwerpsels.]
Minister, ons is bly om te hoor u s dat daar 'n ondersoek is. Ons is bewus daarvan, maar wat belangrik is, is die gevolge vir mense betrokke. [Tussenwerpsels.] Gaan hulle tot verantwoording geroep word? Gaan u krimenele klagtes teen di mense l? [Tussenwerpsels.]
Die derde probleem is dat die departement grootliks nie weet wat hy besit nie, waar hierdie eiendomme is nie, wat die toestand of waarde daarvan is nie, wie die eiendomme bewoon nie en of dit leeg staan en vergaan nie. [Tussenwerpsels.] Dit is omdat die departement sedert 1994 nie 'n betroubare bateregister het nie. Dit is soos 'n groot bank wat nie weet waar die sleutel vir die kluis is nie. [Tussenwerpsels.]
In teenstelling hiermee, voldoen die Wes-Kaapse provinsiale departement na slegs twee jaar reeds volledig aan al die vereistes van die Government Immovable Asset Management Act, Act No.19 of 2007. [Tussenwerpsels.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
The second core problem concerns irregularities with the leasing of properties. In many cases leasing contracts are missing, while rentals, property taxes plus water and electricity accounts are not being paid, or else the rental paid to the private owner, or ANC cadre, is excessively high. This leads to large-scale corruption, such as with the rental scandal with the widely debated police building in central Pretoria. [Interjections.]
Minister, we are glad to hear you say that there is an investigation. We are aware of it, but what's important are the consequences for the people involved. [Interjections.] Will they be called to account? Will you lay criminal charges against these people? [Interjections.]
The third problem is that the department in general does not know what it possesses, where these properties are situated, what the condition or value is, who is occupying these properties and whether they are standing empty or are in a state of disrepair. [Interjections.] This is because since 1994 the department has not had a reliable register of assets. It is like a big bank that doesn't know where the key to the vault is. [Interjections.]
In contrast with this, after only two years, the Western Cape Provincial department is already fully compliant with all the requirements of the Government Immovable Asset Management Act, Act no.19 of 2007. [Interjections.]]
We don't expect Minister Nxesi immediately to create a department as effective as the one in the Western Cape ... [Interjections.] ... but when will he be able ... [Interjections.] But when ... [Laughter.] [Interjections.]
Order! Order!
We don't expect Minister Nxesi immediately to create a department as effective as the one in the Western Cape, but when will he be able to say that his department also complies with this basic law? [Interjections.]
In conclusion, Minister, at least three things must be done: qualified technical staff must be appointed; the leasing of properties must be professionally managed in an open and clean manner; and a reliable Immovable Asset Register must be developed and maintained. In the meantime, this department remains deadly sick. [Applause.]
Chairperson, Minister and hon members, Cope is encouraged by the honest and public acknowledgement by the Minister that this department has failed in its constitutional mandate and its obligations. We believe that the turnaround strategy is long overdue. The public acknowledgement of the dysfunctionality of the department is meant to say that all stakeholders must find a way to help.
This department is key, given its asset portfolio and its ability to generate revenue from those assets. Hence, we cannot afford wastage, corrupt activities and maladministration, which paralyse and minimise the effectiveness of the department. We wish to state categorically that the call from the Minister to the Treasury and to the Auditor-General to assist was the correct one. However, we wish to raise our concern about the staff who contributed to the downfall of this department still being in the department. We agree that not all of the staff were involved, but regarding those we can identify, why not put them aside to allow for a hindrance-free turnaround strategy to be effected?
This department has been getting a qualified audit report almost every year. This financial year, of 2011-12, the department received a disclaimer, meaning that the Auditor-General does not know what is happening in this department. Every department that depends on this department has a problem, including its own entities created by this department. Some departments have decided to perform the functions of this department themselves.
Hon Minister, the staff of this department are the very ones who were in the employ of the department when the first qualified audit report was tabled. What have they done differently? Nothing. Come the next financial year, they will do the same. They will continue to do the same in the next financial year and we will get the same result: a qualified audit report. [Interjections.]
In 2011-12, they decided to go deeper because no one is holding them accountable. [Interjections.] Now that we have a disclaimer, the question is: What will happen? Are we still going to get the same inefficient service from the same inefficient staff? [Interjections.]
Hon members! Order, please! The level of noise is too high. Please reduce the level of noise.
I will repeat my point. In 2011-12, they decided to go deeper because no one was holding them accountable. Now that we have a disclaimer, the question is: What will happen? Are we still going to get the same inefficient service from the same inefficient staff, but expect different results? The answer is no.
We, as Cope, disagree with the situation. Hon Minister, a word of caution: Administration is key to your department's ability to provide the quality service that is required by your client departments and South African citizens at large. The performance of the department is a reflection of the performance of the Minister, and a disclaimer of the department is a disclaimer of the Minister.
We, as Cope, would like to see your turnaround strategy being successfully implemented. But in order for that to happen, we challenge your department to be tough on corruption and maladministration by firing all corrupt and inefficient staff, recruiting the requisite skilled staff and retaining only hard-working staff who are willing to provide quality services that all your client departments deserve.
In conclusion, hon Minister, if this department was a private business, it would have been liquidated with its first qualified audit report, because that is when it showed signs of being unprofitable. The South African taxpayers and its citizens deserve better service from this department, and Cope challenges the hon Minister to provide that service. I thank you. [Applause.]
Hon Chairperson, the IFP reluctantly supports this Vote. [Applause.] The reason for our reluctance is that we believe in the Minister's leadership and ability to correct the problems within this department, but the Minister should not take this vote of confidence for granted, because we expect results.
We also take this opportunity to congratulate the Minister and the department on the implementation of this departmental turnaround strategy. I hope the department has finally reached its lowest ebb by being run, indirectly, under administration and that it will now rebound into a fully functional and healthy entity.
However, I must warn the Minister that one cannot expect results with the same inputs. In this case I am referring to senior departmental officials. I am talking about the same officials who were there during the tenure of Minister Sigcau, who were there during the time of Minister Doidge, who were there during the time of Minister Mahlangu-Nkabinde. They were there when the department was continually being embarrassed by qualified audits from the Office of the Auditor-General and they were there when there was a failure to keep a proper register of all departmental assets.
On 27 October last year, I stood here before this House in utter dismay and expressed great shock on behalf of the IFP when it was revealed that the Department of Public Works had just received disclaimer status from the Auditor-General. The department had sunk to an all-time low, but it is said that the tide turns at its lowest ebb. So, we are eagerly awaiting the tide to turn events around.
It is of paramount importance that the turnaround strategy addresses the departmental staff component and poor staff performance if it is to make any impact. What strategies are in place to ensure that poor work performance by officials, as well as corrupt and inept staff are summarily dealt with by the department? If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. Disciplinary action must be swift and officials who have been found guilty must have their contracts terminated, not like the case of Director-General S Dongwana, who is still receiving a full salary and benefits while the case against him slowly proceeds.
A spirit of teamwork, loyalty and commitment to the department and its projects must be cultivated in the corporate culture of the department. Integrity and a strong work ethic must dominate the work space if we are to succeed. Strong, dedicated and unwavering leadership from senior department officials must be the order of the day. The recruitment of disabled people must also be increased because everyone in this country should have equal opportunity to find employment.
It is no secret that the Department of Public Works is owed many millions of rand by client departments. I therefore stand here today and directly challenge all client departments to settle their debts with the Department of Public Works.
The capacitation of municipal staff must occur seeing as the EPWP has not as yet been implemented in our municipalities owing to a lack of capacity. [Interjections.] What is the plan, Minister?
Ngqongqoshe, ngikufisela uhambo oluhle kule ndlela ehlabayo enameva nezipikili. Sihlalo, awukho uMnyango owake waba noNgqongqoshe abathathu ngethemu eyodwa, ungowokuqala lo. [Uhleko.] Ngaleyo ndlela-ke sikufisela uhambo oluhle mfo wakithi. Ngiyabonga. [Uhlombe.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[Hon Minister, I wish you a good journey on this challenging and tough road ahead. Chairperson, there has never been a department that had three Ministers in a single term - this is the first one. [Laughter.] We wish you a good journey, my brother. Thank you. [Applause.]]
Chairperson, hon Minister and hon members, the UDM supports Budget Vote 7. [Applause.] A lot has changed since this department was dubbed the worst-run department in the country. Since the Minister took over, there have been a number of noteworthy improvements in how the Department of Public Works conducts its affairs. These improvements could be ascribed to the department's turnaround strategy.
We are encouraged by the department's bold decision to conduct an internal skills audit. The UDM has always been consistent in calling on the government to conduct a skills audit in all spheres of government. A skills audit is the only way in which the department can establish whether or not it has the capacity required to deliver services to the people. A skills audit will help ensure that the government is able to identify its skills base together with its skills gap and thus enable it to take corrective steps.
Despite the aforementioned achievements, a lot still needs to be done to rid the department of its woes. The department needs to resolve the controversial and often costly lease agreements for public offices. It needs to reclaim its mandate of providing government building infrastructure to other government departments.
We call on the department to fast-track all legislation that is intended to transform the construction and development industry, particularly that relating to the Construction Industry Development Board.
The UDM would like to pledge its support to the Minister and senior management in the Department of Public Works.
Mphathiswa, siyabulela ngokuba uthe wonyulwa njengoMphathiswa weli sebe wenza neenguqu, kodwa kukho ingxaki xa sifuna ukubanga olu gunyaziso ... (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)
[Hon Minister, we are thankful that you have been elected as the Minister for this department and for the changes you have made. However, there is a problem when we want to determine the authority ...]
... in terms of which Basic Education erects buildings. Worst of all, you have a very good entity ...
... ebizwa ngokuba yi-Independent Development Trust ekwaziyo ukwakha nenerekhodi elaziwayo lokwakha kodwa kusetyenziswa iSebe leeNkonzo zoLuntu noLawulo kulwakhiwo. Siyacela ungenelele nakumaphondo kuba le ngxaki inkulu kwaye inzima kuba aba bantu esifuna ukuba baphuhliswe abaphuhliseki ngenxa yaloo nto.
Enye ingxaki enkulu, yile ibithethwa yale nkqubo intsha yokwakha izikolo. Intle yona kuba ixabiso layo liyafikeleleka kwaye iyakhawuleza kodwa iyabetha ekuphuhliseni abantu bethu. Siyacela ukuba uyijonge le ndlela intsha yokwakha izikolo. Siyi-UDM siyakubulela kuba oko uthe wangena kwesi sikhundla kuyabonakala ukuba kukho into eqhubekayo. Siyakukhuthaza ukuba uqhube kakuhle ukuze sakhe uMzantsi Afrika wethu kuba ngowethu kunye nabantwana bethu. Enkosi. [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)
[... called the Independent Development Trust, which builds properly and has a good track record in construction. Yet the Department for the Public Service and Administration is the one used for construction. We request your intervention in the provinces since this is a big and difficult problem because the people, whom we would like to be developed are not being developed as a result.
Another big problem is the new school building project that was mentioned. It is quite good because the price is manageable and it is faster but it fails in terms of developing our people. We request that you keep an eye on the new school building project. As the UDM, we commend you because progress is in evidence ever since you took over in this position. We encourage you to keep on doing well so that we build our South Africa because at the end of the day it is our country and that of our children. Thank you. [Applause.]]
Hon Minister of Public Works and hon Ministers and Deputy Ministers who are here, hon members, hon Chairperson, as the ruling party the ANC believes that the epitome of a successful government is good service delivery. However, in order for service delivery to be a success, it must uphold certain standards, such as grappling with core issues and leading to a spirited drive to respond to the needs of the people and to transform their lives for the better. Therefore, the department has a role to play in responding to these needs.
For the department to be able to fulfil its mandate of managing the accommodation, housing, land and infrastructure needs of the national departments, leading and directing the implementation of the EPWP and promoting growth, job creation and transforming the construction and property industry, it must have sufficient human capacity. We appreciate the progress made by the department to fill the vacant posts, as there was an improvement in the decline of vacancies from 22% to 16% in 2008-09. The department intended to fill all vacant funded posts by 30 June 2011.
Out of 1 363 vacant posts reported by the department in 2010-11, the department has been able to fill 420 posts. Although there was progress, we appreciate what has been indicated by the Minister, namely that the vacant funded posts will be filled as soon as possible. After all, if too much time is taken to fill vacancies or vacancies are not filled at all, service delivery will be impeded and the operation and performance of the department will be affected. We appreciate the commitment made by the department of intending to fill 95% of its posts over the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework, MTEF, period.
Section 38(1)(f) of the Public Finance Management Act, PFMA, Act No 1 of 1991, when read with Treasury Regulation section 8.2.3, mandates the department to pay creditors within 30 days from receipt of the invoice. This prompted the department to make a commitment by initiating the Reyapatala programme to adhere to these prescripts.
Progress has been made by the department as it was able to pay 66,7% of service providers on time, but it has to put more effort into ensuring that all service providers are paid within 16 days from receipt of the invoice to avoid interest accruing, which will result in wasteful expenditure and must be avoided at all costs. Minister, I think that in the 2010-11 financial year, R6,6 million was paid to service providers after 30 days. Payment of service providers on time will stimulate the growth of emerging and small enterprises.
One of the mandates of the department is to provide office accommodation to national departments and its entities. Therefore the department is expected to pay the landlords. The client departments should pay the Department of Public Works. From March 2008, the money owed by the departments was R419 million and R48 million was owed by entities. These amounts were outstanding for a period of more than two years.
As at February 2012, the department paid an amount of R3,4 billion to the landlords, but the department was able to pay back R2,5 billion, meaning that the outstanding amount is R839 million plus. These amounts keep on increasing year after year.
This problem of nonpayment by client departments is one of the factors that led to the department getting the disclaimer audit opinion. Furthermore, the failure of the departments to pay the Department of Public Works has a negative impact on the implementation of departmental programmes as it compromises service delivery and other programmes. The department, through the accounting officer, has to take appropriate action to make sure that the money owed is collected, and the portfolio committee and Treasury must intervene by calling all the defaulters to account.
There are other staff members who owe the department. In 2009-10, the amount owed was R4,5 million, which has increased to between R4,5 million and R9 million in 2010-11. The department has to make sure that this money is collected from the implicated staff officials.
We appreciate the fact that the department has been able to consistently spend over 90% of its budget. As the committee, we don't expect any underspending, but the spending of the department is satisfactory.
The supply chain management framework, when read with the preferential procurement policy framework of 2000, indicates that the procurement system must be fair, transparent, competitive and cost-effective. The department has to improve in terms of compliance. If quotations are needed for the procurement of goods, let it be so. If some officials ignore the policies, let disciplinary steps be taken on time against the transgressors. An amount of R1,2 million resulted in irregular expenditure because officials had deviated and failed to get quotations from bidders, as required by law, in the 2010-11 financial year.
Treasury regulation 9.1.1. indicates that accounting officers must take effective and appropriate steps to prevent and detect wasteful and fruitless expenditure and report to Treasury. Let the accounting officer comply with this regulation.
We appreciate the progress made by the department in ensuring that some employees declare their interests to the executive authority, as required by the Public Service regulations of 2000. Those who have not done so must do the right thing at the right time, failing which they have to be punished.
The department is commended for its efforts to increase revenue generation from R3,8 million in 2009-10 to R4,8 million in 2010-11. The intervention strategy to increase revenue generation has borne fruit. South Africa's major challenge is the shortage of skills. We appreciate the programme of the department to train interns in engineering and spatial planning through the infrastructure skills development grant. An amount of R281 million has been allocated over the medium-term expenditure framework to provide training to over 2 000 graduates. This programme and the department initiative of using retired built - environment professionals and certified artisans will bridge the gap in the shortage of technical skills, which are mostly needed by the department and municipalities to accelerate service delivery and to ensure effective implementation of infrastructural development. The revival of departmental workshops to train artisans in all the regional offices, in partnership with the Department of Higher Education and Training, will improve skills transfer and create jobs.
Considering the budget allocated for consultants - which is R55,5 million and which will increase during the MTEF period to between R61,6 million and R65,3 million in 2013-14, to provide support to municipalities in the implementation of infrastructural projects on the EPWP - the unlimited use, Minister, of consultants will compromise the transfer of skills and job creation, as you have indicated, while the department is in need of technical skills. Owing to the shortage of skills, the department has opted to use consultants. This is a good idea, but more focus must be placed on building internal capacity to minimise the overuse of consultants, which sometimes compromises job creation. That is because money that is supposed to be used to create jobs is spent on consultants. It is wasteful and fruitless expenditure to hire people to do the work, while, at the same time, continually appointing consultants to do the same jobs. Clear terms of reference, as you have indicated, should be developed for consultants to transfer skills. When they exit, the department should have the capacity to continue where the consultants left off.
The internal audit unit needs to be adequately resourced to ensure that the unit is able to identify internal control deficiencies and make recommendations on time. Also, the office of the chief financial officer needs to be capacitated to strengthen the internal controls to avoid cases of officials without the delegated powers signing for amounts to talling R1,6 million in 2010-11. Warning letters alone will not be a solution. The Public Finance Management Act, Act No 1 of 1999, was passed in 1999. It is now 2012, so no one can claim not to understand the Act.
Hhayi-ke, uma kunjalo Ngqongqoshe kumele wenze okuthile ngalokhu. [If that is the case, hon Minister, then you need to do something about it.]
Minister, you must act.
The Public Audit Act, Act No.25 of 2004, gives effect to the provisions of the Constitution of establishing and assigning functions to the Auditor- General to audit government departments at all levels and public entities and to report to Parliament. Minister, the Auditor-General has made some recommendations. Let those recommendations be implemented.
In conclusion, I want to indicate that the Employment Equity Act, Act No 55 of 1998, was passed to address disparities in employment, as has been said by my colleagues. Little has been done to recruit people with disabilities. However, the department has made some improvement.
Minister, I want to say that, as the ANC, we support this Budget Vote. While some people are dreaming of success, others, such as the ANC, wake up and work hard for it. The department is functional. Challenges are part of life, and we have to confront them. Minister, we trust the department. I thank you. [Applause.]
Agb Voorsitter, ek gaan nie vandag met die agb Minister baklei nie, want hy het nou die dag eers die Minister geword. Ek dink die Minister het redelik durf en moed aan die dag gel om te erken dat die departement disfunksioneel is, dat daar basies totale chaos is en dat die agb Minister 'n ministerile taakspan aangestel het om na die probleem te kyk. Ons s in Afrikaans - en dit lyk op die oomblik ook so, nadat ek na die Minister geluister het - dis die regte man, op die regte plek en op die regte tyd. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[Mr P J GROENEWALD: Hon Chairperson, I am not going to fight with the hon Minister today, because he became the Minister only the other day. I think that the Minister has showed guts and courage by admitting that the department is dysfunctional, that it is basically in total chaos and by appointing a ministerial task team to investigate the problem. As we say in Afrikaans - and it also seems to be the case at the moment, having listened to the Minister - he is the right man in the right place at the right time. [Applause.]]
The English idiom, hon Minister, is "Cometh the hour, cometh the man".
Ons sal volgende jaar kyk of die agb Minister presteer het. [Next year we will be able to see whether the Minister has performed.]
Hon Minister, you quoted the editorial of The New Age, which said you had to act swiftly. You also said that the MECs of the provinces were present here tonight. I hope the MEC for the North West is here as well, because I am going to give you an opportunity to act swiftly. You will be able to act swiftly, because I want to put a problem on your table and, when I'm finished here, I am going to give you the documents.
Agb Minister, ek noem dit die Kameeldrift-probleem. Kameeldrift is 'n stuk landbougrond wat net buite Brits l. Op die oomblik is daar mense wat net eenvoudig Kameeldrift toestroom en net daar plak. Ek wil 'n bewering maak. U het ges u gaan korrupsie uitskakel in u departement. U het gepraat van 1 277 sake by die polisie. Ek maak die stelling en bewering dat daar korrupte amptenare is wat geld onder die tafel kry, vir wie mense moet betaal en dan gaan plak hulle onwettig op landbougrond wat aan Openbare Werke behoort.
Minister, ek gaan vir u die volledige dokument gee van die raadslid van die VF Plus, Elsa Lourens, in Madibeng. Ek gaan u vra dat daar mre opgetree moet word, dat die LUR van Noordwes moet kyk of daar iets in sy pype is, om teen hierdie mense te kan opstaan en hulle af te kry van grond wat onwettig beset is. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Hon Minister, I call this the Kameeldrift problem. Kameeldrift is a piece of agricultural land situated just outside Brits. At the moment, people are flocking to Kameeldrift and simply squatting there. I want to make an allegation. You said that you will eliminate corruption in your department. You mentioned 1 277 cases that are with the police. I want to make the statement and allegation that there are corrupt officials who are accepting money under the table, whom people have to pay, and then they can go and squat illegally on agricultural land belonging to the Department of Public Works. Minister, I shall give you the complete document from the FF Plus committee member, Elsa Lourens, in Madibeng. I am going to ask you that action be taken tomorrow, that the MEC of the North West should see whether he has what it takes to take a stand against these people and remove them from the land that they are occupying illegally.]
Hon Minister, you are the custodian and you have to protect the assets of the government. This is an opportunity to prove to the people that you are serious when you say that you will act and that you will act swiftly.
Hier het die Minister 'n geleentheid om te bewys dat daar opgetree kan word. U moet ontslae raak van daardie korrupte amptenare. Ek het gehoor wat die ander sprekers ook ges het. Eers as u van hulle ontslae geraak het, sal u sukses bereik. Ek dank u. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[This is an opportunity for the Minister to prove that action can be taken. You need to get rid of those corrupt officials. I have listened to what the other speakers have said as well. You will only achieve success once you get rid of them. I thank you. [Applause.]]
Chairperson, the debate on the Public Works Budget Vote takes place less than a week after the Auditor-General, Terence Nombembe, criticised the government and public servants because of what he called "the dire situation that has been weakening the pillars of government protecting South Africa's democracy".
He said further:
Things are serious, and they are even more serious than we thought they are. They are more serious because the people that are employed by the government to do work are least prepared and equipped to do it ... The accountability for the results is not taken as seriously as it should be. Bad results are regarded as a norm and when people get a disclaimer or qualified reports, little happens to them to show that this is unacceptable. This is the culture that we need to be concerned about.
When delivering his 2010-11 general report on national audit outcomes at a briefing in Pretoria, the Auditor-General said that he was unable to obtain sufficient and appropriate audit evidence to provide a basis for an audit opinion and, as a result, he gave the department his worse possible verdict, which is a disclaimer. He said that unauthorised, irregular, fruitless and wasteful expenditure had grown from R3,9 billion in 2009-10 to R4,5 billion in 2010-11.
In June 2010, the building of the R52-million Diepsloot Police Station came to a halt after the department cancelled the tender when the contractor experienced cash-flow problems. Two years later, the police station, which was 70% complete when the project was stopped, is still standing today, as a white elephant. The backlog of police stations that must still be built by the Department of Public Works is hindering service delivery in communities that are ravaged by crime. Many police officials are still locked out today because of the department failing to pay appropriate rent.
For a number of years now, the department has been experiencing a high vacancy rate. In spite of the pronouncement made by the President in the 2011 state of the nation address that all vacancies in the Public Service must be filled within six months, the Department of Public Works has still not done so. Actually, at the beginning of 2010, they still had 943 vacancies.
Now we ask: How can the department fulfil its mandate and obligations with such a deficit of staff? While I appreciate the progress that has been spoken about by the Minister ... [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Hon members, I would like to remind the House that it is a convention of the House not to walk between the Chair and the speaker when the speaker is on the floor. Thank you.
Chairperson and hon members, South Africa aims to create job opportunities through infrastructural development. That makes the Department of Public Works key, not only to the maintenance and creation of infrastructure but because their role is directly linked to what South Africans aspire to.
When we look at different departments and what is needed in each of those in order to optimally serve South Africans, infrastructural development always comes up. The UCDP is aware that the Minister is fighting against the tide, in respect of the department being fraught with corruption. To his credit, he has come out clearly saying that he has his hands full and that he is using his broom to sweep out of the department all the clots, both within and without the department, before the department dies from a thrombosis. Good luck, Minister.
In his state of the nation address, the President raised three issues of concern, namely poverty, joblessness and inequality. The Department of Public Works fits in in this regard. They should employ engineers and all staff full time and have armies of men and women working permanently for the department, even in menial jobs. In the process, the department will people to qualify for pensions as government employees. They should rid the department of tenderpreneurs. The Department of Public Works has to rise to the occasion and provide quality infrastructure and jobs.
We note, however, that the Minister has had no success in some of the areas I have just mentioned. Despite claims that employment is rising, there is undeniable evidence that South African unemployment and poverty are very high by international standards. The unemployment rate, using a broad definition, sits at 41%, while poverty is somewhere between 40% and 45%. Different strategies have been used to tackle these problems.
There has recently been a focus on the EPWP. While Public Works' programmes are a valid component of a social protection policy, an EPWP is unlikely to have a significant impact on the problems of poverty and labour-market access or the associated growth unless the government expenditure allocated to the programme is substantially increased. The Minister indicated that, as one says in IsiZulu:
ISabelomali sabo silingana nenso yenyoni. [Their budget allocation is very small.]
The associated institutional constraints are addressed. On that note, the UCDP supports the Budget Vote of the Department of Public Works. [Applause.]
Sihlalo, ngithanda ukuthatha leli thuba ngibingelele uNgqongqoshe ovela kuMnyango wezemiSebenzi yoMphakathi, abasebenzi boMnyango wezemiSebenzi yoMphakathi, izivakashi ezikhona kanye nabahlonishwa. [Chairperson, I would like to take this opportunity to greet the Minister and the employees from the Department of Public Works, visitors present and hon members.] This speech is on government immovable asset management. This programme is the largest one and is allocated R5,4 billion, which constitutes 67% of the total department allocation of R7,9 billion. It has 12 subprogrammes in it. I will be touching on a few of the subprogrammes.
The first subprogramme is strategic asset investment analysis. This subprogramme is meant to be responsible for the management of an accurate, accessible and comprehensive asset register. I must say that the department is still struggling to complete its verification of all immovable assets.
A national definitive plan was developed in order to finalise the confirmation of ownership of state land in conjunction with the Department of Rural Development and Land Reform and provincial custodians.
I must also mention that provinces are still struggling to complete their asset registers. [Interjections.] As the portfolio committee, we are concerned that since the Government Immovable Asset Management Act, Act No 19 of 2007, is not extended to include the local sphere, where it is believed most of the immovable assets reside, a large proportion of assets is still unaccounted for or not in the national asset register database. It is unclear whether the department lacks capacity in handling verification and regarding the continual requirements to update the national and provincial asset registers. This means that the implementation of the Act itself is not effectively and efficiently co-ordinated.
When doing oversight work as the portfolio committee, we find that there are empty, dilapidated buildings whose ownership is unclear. Some buildings are occupied illegally. Certain people collect rent from the occupants. Most of our inner cities are turned into slum areas because of such buildings. This is where drugs and stolen goods are found, hence we are saying, as a committee, that the Government Immovable Asset Management Act, Act No 19 of 2007, should be extended to local municipalities. It looks like some of our local governments are not capable of handling such buildings. That impacts negatively on the country as a whole.
The department is still faced with the challenge of buildings in the former TBVC states, that is Transkei, Bophuthatswana, Venda and Ciskei. No one is taking care of these buildings. There are also assets situated internationally, and they need to be known to the department. There is no accurate information on such foreign assets. The portfolio committee was briefed that the Department of International Relations and Co-operation was in control of such assets. To us, that sounded as if there was no clear information from the Department of Public Works. They only rely on Dirco. It seems the two departments do not talk to each other. Dirco has no technical competency in foreign countries.
However, Minister, the department's strategic plan target is to ensure a complete and accurate Immovable Asset Register by 31 March 2014. As the committee, we appreciate that. We will continue doing our work, monitoring the progress made on a quarterly basis.
With regard to the vesting of land, some progress has been made by the department, in conjunction with the Department of Rural Development and Land Reform. During the financial year 2011-12, 2 000 hectares of land were released, and the Department of Public Works will continue releasing more land during the MTEF period. This land was released for purposes of human settlement. This means that the poorest of the poor benefited from the land.
We therefore congratulate the Department of Public Works on the number of land parcels vested. The number has increased from 8 388 land parcels vested in 2010-11 to 25 127 land parcels vested in the 2011-12 financial year. We are hoping that by the end of the 2014-15 financial year, the process of land parcels vested shall be finalised, as stated in the annual performance plan.
With regard to the custodian asset management plan, the department has a key role to play in supporting client departments to produce a custodian asset management plan for the continued safeguarding of the interests of the state in respect of immovable assets. We acknowledge the work done by the department to ensure that such assets are effectively and efficiently managed throughout their life cycle and meet the service delivery requirements of users. However, as the portfolio committee we are not satisfied to be told that some of the client departments are not paying their rent. We therefore urge all client departments to do the right thing and pay their rent.
Coming to inner city regeneration, I believe the purpose of the subprogramme is to rejuvenate inner towns and inner cities through the provision of improved physical working environments to national government departments in various inner cities. The project, which was supposed to start in Tshwane, is called "Re Kgabisa Tshwane". I want to point out that we have been briefed since I became a member of the portfolio committee, but there has been no movement. We have also been briefed that the project is to expand to other cities. According to the annual performance plan, the service level agreement was signed with the City of Tshwane in the 2010-11 financial year, in the hope that the department would get moving in this regard.
A memorandum of understanding was concluded with one city during the 2011- 12 financial year. I must point out that as the committee we do not know which city this memorandum of understanding was concluded with. Memoranda of understanding are to be concluded with eight cities during the MTEF period, and we hope that as the committee we will be briefed which cities these are.
Secondly, we will be doing monitoring on a quarterly basis. One of the department's strategic objectives is to promote an enabling environment for the creation of both short and sustainable work opportunities, so as to contribute to the national goals of job creation, poverty alleviation and skills development. The department aims to have created 800 jobs in the construction sector by the 2014-15 financial year, using the construction management methodology. That will promote an enabling environment for the creation of both short and sustainable work opportunities so as to contribute to the national goal of job creation and poverty alleviation.
We hope that those jobs will include women, youth and people living with disabilities. I mention this, Chairperson, because when doing our oversight as a committee, we saw that these sectors of the community are being ignored and are not catered for adequately. In some places there are no facilities for people with disabilities. Thank you, hon Chairperson. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, other hon Ministers and Deputy Ministers in the House, hon members, the officials of the department, ladies and gentlemen ...
Ek wil eers begin deur vir u te s dat die verkiesing nog op pad is. [Gelag.] Dit is nie nou verkiesingtyd nie. [Tussenwerpsels.] In die Wes- Kaap praat hulle van grond wat aan die nasionale departement behoort, maar die Wes-Kaap het self soveel grond net "next door" [langsaan], waar hulle 'n skool wil bou. [Tussenwerpsels.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[I would like to start by telling you that the election is still on the way. [Laughter.] It is not election time now. [Interjections.] In the Western Cape there is talk of land belonging to the national department, but the Western Cape itself has so much land just next door, where they want to build a school. [Interjections.]] South Africa is almost entering its third decade of freedom, with the strengthening of democracy and the acceleration of the programme to improve the quality of life for all South Africans. Steadily the dark night of white minority political domination is receding into a distant memory, yet we are only at the beginning of a very long journey to a truly united, democratic and prosperous South Africa, in which the value of citizens is measured by their humanity without regard for race, gender and status.
Public Works is the leading component in the provision of government building infrastructure. It plays a critical role in providing an enabling environment for the effective and efficient implementation of social and economic infrastructure.
The questions that come to mind with regard to Public Works are: How do we make sure that what is supposed to be done is done, with speed, quality, impact and value for money; and what kinds of institutional measures and regulations should we be fostering to accelerate service delivery?
We all realise that investment in Public Works is an important aspect of a successful developmental state. Our people, however, expect Public Works to be of a high standard and executed in terms of construction policy regulations that can be trusted.
To ensure that benefits of growth and the improvement in quality of life are shared by all, also at community and household levels, this government is implementing Public Works regulations and programmes designed to eliminate the construction of shoddy and dangerous structures of inferior quality. Central, therefore, to the Budget Vote must be the necessary provision for property and construction industry policy regulations, whose purpose are to promote the growth and transformation of the construction and property industries.
The board of Agrment SA evaluates and approves the fitness for purpose of non-standardised construction products. Its mandate is to facilitate the safe introduction, application and utilisation of satisfactory innovation of technology development in the construction industry. It is the internationally acknowledged centre, providing assurance of fitness for purpose of technologies that optimise resource utilisation and realise cost savings in the industry. Centrally, Agrment SA promotes the government's objective of economic development. Agrment SA has the responsibility of raising standards in the construction industry by introducing modern, more efficient and advanced construction products. Furthermore, it develops new objectives for quality management, monitoring and evaluating of all aspects of the quantity of outputs. It tests and approves construction products and systems. In this way, it brings about improved methods of construction.
Through skills transfer and training, which are part of its responsibility, it contributes to the national goal of job creation. By devising innovative technologies suitable for fast-tracking rural development, it introduces appropriate systems which have been used successfully in other parts of the world, thus improving public services, especially in rural areas. In this way, the ANC-led government delivers in terms of the development of affordable and improved housing and infrastructure in a healthier habitat.
The Agrment South Africa Bill will therefore be tabled in Parliament by March 2013, establishing it as a juristic person, thereby improving its corporate governance and accountability. Approval for the creation of a public entity in this regard would, by that stage, already have been obtained from the joint evaluation committee.
However, as far as Agrment SA is concerned, the following valid questions need to be asked: How many beneficiaries of youth development are receiving bursaries; and how is it involved in the upgrading of informal settlements, job creation, water provision and the fight against corruption and crime?
Disappointment is also being expressed at the fact that Agrment SA has not made headway in increasing the numbers of people with disabilities in its staff complement and at an explanation not being given for the increase in executive levies.
The Construction Industry Development programme creates an enabling environment for transforming the construction industry by developing appropriate regulatory mechanisms and implementing monitoring mechanisms for the sector. The Property Industry Development programme, in turn, provides leadership and guidance on the transformation of the property industry and promotes uniformity and best practice on immovable asset management in the public sector through policy development. It also sets best-practice standards for the compilation and maintenance of immovable asset registers and for the administration of rights over state and private land through its guidelines.
This programme aims to ensure effective and efficient strategic leadership in immovable asset management and the delivery of infrastructure programmes through the development of life cycle property management policies and to table in Parliament an expropriation Bill by March 2012 to ensure consistency with the Constitution and uniformity in the expropriation of property. Considering the urgency of the matter, the question of why it should take almost a year to table this important Bill is unavoidably being asked. Surely, the mechanics to fast-track a Bill do exist and should be applied in this case?
Between 2012 and 2015, amendments will be made to the legislative framework of the Built Environment Professions Bill by the tabling of the Bill in Parliament. Over the same period, there will be the development of a green building programme for government, aimed at green job creation and economic growth. Life cycle guidelines will be rolled out to national and provincial custodians. These guidelines are meant for the management of state immovable assets.
In his 2012 state of the nation address, President Zuma placed emphasis on "a massive infrastructure development drive" for the year 2012 and beyond. This will underpin economic growth and job creation and will be pivotal in supporting enterprise development and enhancing transformation of the construction industry. Key to this will be enhancing procurement and delivery management systems for all public-sector procurement.
Agrment SA and the Construction Industry Development programme will play an integral part in addressing the challenges that the industry currently faces and in the opportunities that will arise through the ANC - led government planned infrastructure investment programme. In conclusion, it is not enough to indicate an increase in the budgeted expenditure, nor is it enough to pinpoint specific actions required and proposed within the budget. Success will only be achieved when we can demonstrate that the actual expenditure has taken place together with the achievement of improved delivery targets. All indications are that the turnaround strategy of Public Works will ensure that these targets will be met. We also want to congratulate our Minister. The ANC supports this Budget Vote. I thank you. [Applause.]
Chairperson, the DA welcomes all initiatives and government strategies aimed at creating jobs. The DA is affected by the high rate of unemployment, which is hovering around 25%. It is estimated that 8 million people in South Africa are unemployed. The DA came up with an 8% growth plan to help reduce unemployment in South Africa.
The DA wants to focus on the growth path to strengthen the EPWP. We believe that it is through growth that jobs and job opportunities can be created. The DA noted with concern how people are employed in the EPWP projects. We visited several municipalities and rural areas and discovered that poor people at local level are segregated when it comes to the hiring. The process that is used really discourages people. The majority of poor people say that the EPWP is used as a political tool and not for all South Africans. It is used to benefit members of the ruling party. Modulasetulo, ditaba t?a mo?omo ke t?e bohloko set?habeng. Batho ba bot?i?a gore go diregileng ka kwelobohloko le gore ke ka lebaka la eng seo Mopresidente a se bolet?ego mabapi le go hlolwa ga me?omo set?habeng se sa diragale. Bahloki ba Limpopo bomasepaleng ba Sekhukhune, Makhuduthamaga, Elias Motsoaledi le Fetakgomo, ba lla ka me?omo yeo e t?eago dikgwedi t?e tharo fela. Ba bot?i?a gore ke there?o gore mmu?o o ka fokot?a goba go fedi?a bodiidi ka tsela yeo?
Ba bangwe ba bao ba ?omago go lenaneo la Expanded Public Works Programme, EPWP, leo le lego Mmasepaleng wa Mogalakwena, ga ba hwet?e t?helete ya tefo fela ba fiwa dijo. Ba bot?i?a gore ana ba ?omela dijo go swana le nakong yela ya aparteiti? Bona ba re taba yeo e ya ba makat?a empa ga go yo a ba fago t?hedimo?o. Ba lekile go bot?i?a mmasepala ... [T?hwahlelo.] (Translation of Sepedi paragraphs follows.)
[Chairperson, the issue of jobs is a problem. People are concerned that the President has promised to create jobs but that promise is not being fulfilled. Poor people in the municipalities like Sekhukhune, Makhuduthamaga, Elias Motsoaledi and Fetakgomo in Limpopo province are complaining about jobs that last only for three months. They would like to know whether the government will succeed in reducing or ending poverty with these kinds of jobs.
People who are working in the, EPWP in Mogalakwena Municipality are not getting paid but they are getting food. They are questioning whether they are working for food as they did during the apartheid era and nobody is responding to that question. They tried to enquire from the municipality ... [Interjections.]]
Agb Voorsitter, op 'n punt van orde: Ek verneem net graag hoekom die Afrikaanse tolkdiens nie beskikbaar is nie. Ek wil graag hoor wat die agb lid s. Ek verwelkom dit dat hy in sy moedertaal praat, maar ek hoor nie die tolkdiens nie. Is daar 'n probleem? (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[Mr P J GROENEWALD: Hon Chairperson, on a point of order: I would just like to enquire why the Afrikaans interpreting service is not available. I very much want to know what the hon member is saying. I welcome the fact that he is speaking in his mother tongue, but I am unable to hear the interpreting service. Is there a problem?]
I am not entirely sure that that is a point of order, but I am sure that the technical staff will look at that for you, hon Groenewald. Thank you. [Interjections.]
... ba bot?wa gore ga ba ?omele mmasepala eup?a go na le motho yo ba mo ?omelago go t?wa go Independent Development Trust, IDT. Ba?omi ba bot?i?a gore ana motho o phelela go ja fela, ga a na dinyakwa t?e dingwe t?eo a swanet?ego go di reka ka t?helete? Batho ba lla ka sepit?a seo se ?omi?wago ge go thwalwa batho me?omong ya nakwana ya mmu?o. Ba re go thwalwa ka karata ya mokgatlo wa dipolotiki wo o bu?ago. Ge motho a sena karata yeo, gona motho yoo ga a hwet?e mo?omo; mohlala ke Mmasepaleng wa Elias Motsoaledi, motseng wa Kgaphamadi. (Translation of Sepedi paragraphs follows.)
[Mr M M SWATHE: ... they were told that they were not working for the municipality but for somebody from the Independent Development Trust. The workers are asking whether food is the only need in their lives and whether they do not have other needs that require money.
People are complaining about cadre employment in temporary posts in government. They are concerned that only card-carrying members of the ruling party are getting the jobs. Those who are not card-carrying members are not getting the jobs. A good example of this is Elias Motsoaledi Local Municipality in Kgaphamadi village.]
The DA would like to remind the government that the EPWP is the government's initiative to reduce poverty and enhance economic growth by providing work opportunities to all. We support the initiative. That is why the DA in the Western Cape turned out to be the only province that used it well. [Interjections.] It is the only province that used its entire allocated budget - exceeding its budget, in fact.
The DA noted from the National Development Plan that it is possible to eliminate poverty and reduce inequality by 2030. That can only happen through successful implementation of the EPWP as an antipoverty mechanism. The issue of bread and butter cannot be ignored because it is where people get life.
Re le ba DA, re tshepa gore Kgoro ya Me?omo ya Set?haba e na le karolo e kgolo ya go phethagat?a le go hlola me?omo set?habeng. Mananeo a dikgoro t?a mmu?o a swanet?e go fiwa bahloki, e sego kgethollo go ya ka dipolotiki. Batho ba swanet?e go fiwa menyetla. Kgoro ya Me?omo ya set?haba swanet?e go beakanya t?e nt?i go hlola me?omo le go hlahla baswa.
Go na le meago e ment?i ya mmu?o yeo e nyakago hlokomelo le go mpshafat?wa. Go na le baswa ba diketekete mebileng bao ba ka hlahlwago go ba baagi gomme ba ?omela mmu?o. Re rata go bona set?haba seo se ?omago Afrika Borwa gomme se se ka diragala ka thekgo ya mmu?o. Re lemoga gore meago ya mmu?o go thoma ka dikolo, dipetlele, dikgolego, dikantoro, le mabala le ditsela, ke dithoto t?a mmu?o. Re le ba DA, re bona pu?o e sa hlokomele set?haba eup?a e t?wela pele ka go tlai?a bahloki. Re bona taba ye e le go ?omi?a t?helete ya mmu?o bo?aedi.
Set?haba se lla ka fao dithentara di ?omi?wago ka gona. Se se hlolwa ke lebaka la gore batho bao ba ?omago go EPWP, bont?i bja bona ba lemoga gore ba ?omela motho yo a it?ego ka gore ke yena yo a humanego thentara. Motho o tee o fiwa t?helete e nt?i mola diketekete t?a batho di tlai?ega ka tlala. Re le ba DA, re re batho ba Afrika Borwa ba swanet?e go hlomphiwa. Ba swanet?e go fiwa dibaka t?a gore ba ?ome.
Dinaga t?e dingwe di ?omela dit?haba t?a t?ona. Ge motho a lebelela China le India, o bona dit?haba t?e kgolo eup?a set?haba sa dinaga t?eo se a ?oma go godi?a ekonomi ya t?ona. Mo Afrika Borwa re bona ba?omi ba mmu?o le baetapele ba sa hlokomele set?haba seo se ba kgethilego. Bont?i bja batho ga ba ipshine ka temokrasi le naga ya bona ka ge ba hloka mo?omo gomme ba a diila. Bodiidi ke lenaba set?habeng, bo t?ea tlhopho le seriti sa motho. (Translation of Sepedi paragraphs follows.)
[The DA believes that the Departments of Labour and Public Works have to play a major role in the creation of jobs. Poor people must have access to the programmes within the government departments. People should not be discriminated against on the basis of their political affiliation. Opportunities must be made available to the people. The Department of Public Works has to plan for job creation and for the training of young people.
Many government buildings need to be renovated and maintained. There are many young people in the streets who can be trained to be bricklayers and work for the government. We want to see a working nation in South Africa and this can only be achieved with the support from the government. We are aware that government buildings - from the schools, hospitals, prisons, offices, the stadia and the roads - are government assets. The DA feels that the government is not taking care of poor people and instead continues to oppress them. This is abuse of state money.
The public is complaining about the tender procedure. Many people who are working in the EPWP are aware that they are working for somebody who got the tender. A lot of money is given to an individual while thousands of people are experiencing poverty. Job opportunities have to be created for the people of South Africa.
Other countries are taking care of their nations. Countries like China and India have big populations but the people in these countries are working to enhance economic growth. In South Africa the public servants and the government leaders are not taking care of the citizens who elected them into office. Many people are not enjoying democracy or their land because they are poor as a result of the lack of jobs. Poverty is an enemy because it steals human dignity and respect from a human being.]
The DA implemented all the requirements of the EPWP. Poor people in the Western Cape have benefited from the EPWP. The hiring process is fair and open to all the people. The local people benefited from the Western Cape EPWP. All municipalities comply with the EPWP and implement it. The DA used the vision of an open-opportunity society vision to cater for all the people who wanted to work under the EPWP.
Our concern is that in most municipalities, the EPWP is not yet implemented. Some municipalities use the EPWP grant for their own programmes. The short time period of three to six months does not give employees enough time to learn and gain experience. The issues of sustainability and decent jobs are exposed. The DA believes that the EPWP jobs must be looked at or reviewed and other models that may create sustainable and decent work should be considered.
Work gives people dignity. Those people who are employed get wages and salaries, which they use to maintain their families. We need to check the impact of the EPWP on the lives of the people. We question whether the department will ever manage to reach the target of employing 4,5 million by 2014. [Interjections.] According to the Post Summit Report of the Municipal Summit 2011, only 244 out of 278 municipalities reached their EPWP targets.
Order, hon members!
The issue of municipalities not complying was highlighted, because there were municipalities that had not yet identified suitable and trained officials to implement the EPWP within their municipalities. [Interjections.] The lack of technical support from the Department of Public Works to ensure labour incentives ... [Interjections.]
Order, hon members! The member has the right to be heard.
Thank you, Chairperson.
Set?haba sa ge?o se tloga se le mathateng mabapi le taba ya go se ?ome gabotse ga EPWP go dimasepala t?e dingwe mo nageng ya gabo rena. Re lemoga gore go na le dimasepala t?e dingwe t?eo e lego gore EPWP ya gona ga e ?ome gabotse, mo e lego gore dimasepaleng t?e dingwe, batho ba ?oma fela dikgwedi t?e tharo ba sa hwet?e tefelo ka lebaka la ge thentara yeo ba e file leloko la mokgatlo wo o bu?ago.
Bjale re re, ana ke ba bakae ba ANC bao le ba filego dithentara t?a EPWP; e ka ba bao le ba filego ba ANC ba lefa batho; le gore ke ka lebaka la eng re bona batho ba EPWP lefaseng le ka bophara, mo diporofenseng t?e seswai, ba gwanta, ba gwantela gore ga ba godi?wa? Ke a leboga. [Nako e fedile.] [Legoswi.] (Translation of Sepedi paragraphs follows.)
[The public is in trouble because of the EPWP that is not functioning properly in some of the municipalities in the country. In some of the municipalities people work for three months without getting paid because the tender has been allocated to a member of the ruling party.
We wonder how many ANC members have been allocated EPWP tenders, whether they are paying the workers properly and why the people in the EPWP in the eight provinces are marching as a result of not getting their wages. Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]]
Hon Chairperson, hon Minister T W Nxesi and other hon Ministers present, hon chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Public Works, hon members of the portfolio committee, acting director-general and distinguished guests, in 1994 the ANC introduced the Reconstruction and Development programme. This programme included an important component, the National Public Works programme. Its design was to ensure job creation. The NPWP had two strategic thrusts. The first thrust related to a community- based Public Works programme, whose intention was the swift provision to - and visible relief for - those in society who were the most economically marginalised and destitute.
The second thrust related to building the capacity of communities for development. In this programme public expenditure was channelled into infrastructure projects and programmes using labour-intensive methods. These programmes were designed to bring into the labour cycle those workers who were either semiskilled or unskilled.
The ANC's 51st national conference in 2002 resolved that there should be a large-scale expansion of the use of labour-intensive construction methods to alleviate unemployment and to address the backlogs in infrastructure in previously disadvantaged areas.
The goal of the EPWP was to alleviate unemployment for at least one million people between 2004 and 2009. This goal was to be achieved by generating work opportunities in four sectors of the economy. That is infrastructure, the environment, the social sector and the economic sector. Labour- intensive methods were to be used in the provision of public goods and services.
The first five years of the EPWP, known as Phase 1, started in April 2004 and ended in March 2009. Phase 2 of the programme was launched in April 2009 at the University of the Western Cape. At the time, President Jacob Zuma said that through the EPWP, government aimed to make use of public- sector funding to expand the job absorptiveness of the various procurement services that government was involved in on a regular basis. He also called on the municipalities to identify and implement labour-intensive projects that would enhance the spirit of the EPW Programme and fulfil its original objectives.
The strategic difference between Phase 2 of the EPWP and earlier models relates to the Phase 1 incentive grant model, which was a Schedule 8 incentive model. The challenge with the Schedule 8 incentive model was that in order for one to access an incentive grant, one was supposed to spend one's own capital budget as an institution to create job opportunities and then later claim the incentive grant. This model only allowed metros and capacitated municipalities to access incentive grants, leaving poor municipalities without a revenue base and not able to access the incentive grant. That is why in the 2010-11 financial year, only 48% were accessed by provinces and municipalities.
Although the model was made to promote hard work in the institutions implementing the EPWP, it ended up having the unintended consequences of promoting and supporting the haves and leaving poor municipalities as they were. The new model has an improved and simplified schedule. The method of allocation is also different in the sense that the old model of incentive allocation was regarded as indicative only. The new model gives greater certainty.
With the previous model, public bodies planned the number of jobs to be created from the existing budget allocations. With the new model, planning for job creation will be mainstreamed within existing planning processes. In addition, the department will implement "assisted and simplified EPWP planning" and guide planning by setting out focus areas and project selection criteria. With the new model, 40% is paid at the beginning of the year on approval of the public body's EPWP business plan, and further payments are conditional on the public body implementing its EPWP projects and spending its initial allocation of 40%. Emphasis is on meeting job- creation targets.
Grants should address the issue of public bodies that are not earning their allocations and enhance "packaged" technical support to the public bodies, particularly small and rural municipalities.
The new EPWP conditional grant operates similarly to a normal Schedule 5 or Schedule 6 grant. The grant allocation is determined by taking into consideration past performance, the potential to create work, and the need to inject employment opportunities and funding into poor rural municipalities. Public bodies will need to mainstream the EPWP into their existing planning processes and plan to use the grant in line with the criteria set by the Department of Public Works.
There is a special focus on supporting poor rural municipalities in this new model. A structured technical support programme will identify structures and agree on the support for public bodies. It aims to prioritise support to those municipalities as part of the special dispensation. So, hon Minister, we welcome the R1,4 billion allocated to infrastructure and the R1,4 billion for the EPWP incentive grant for job opportunities. This means that we are going to increase job opportunities in our country. [Applause.]
Although many achievements have taken place, there are still challenges, hon Minister, in terms of the EPWP. The biggest challenge facing the EPWP is how to mobilise relevant national, provincial and local government bodies to implement the programme. A deepening of consciousness is needed to overcome the tendency for the EPWP to be regarded as a Department of Public Works programme rather than as a programme of government.
The tendency for people to view unemployment as the responsibility of somebody else remains a challenge. In addition, we still find people involved in infrastructure programmes maintaining that their task is to deliver infrastructure projects, not to alleviate unemployment.
We must address the widely held perception that labour-intensive methods are more difficult to manage, take longer, are more costly and result in inferior - quality products. This incorrect perception must be tackled as part of the implementation programme and allocation of funds to programmes.
Also, there is a challenge, hon Chairperson and hon Minister, in terms of the inequality of the stipend within the EPWP programmes or projects. Some provinces and municipalities are getting different stipends for the same job in the same sector. This leads to rural people subsidising people in the urban areas. You will find that in the rural municipalities they get a minimum of R60, but when it comes to the cities they are paid up to R150 or R160. This is because the determination is between R60 and R160. This can be abused if we are not careful about it. We therefore request the hon Minister and his department to review this determination and to have a common national approach around the issue of the stipend in order to guide everybody.
Creating more and better jobs must lie at the heart of any strategy to fight poverty, to reduce inequalities and to address rural underdevelopment. Moving forward during 2012, the challenge is to ensure that the expansion of the EPWP has as wide a scope as is financially possible. The EPWP has been designed to function within the budgetary constraints of the MTEF.
Key initiatives, as outlined in this year's state of the nation address and in our macroeconomic framework, the New Growth Path, mean that going forward the EPWP must promote Public Works programmes in infrastructural development and create productive, labour-intensive approaches. Creating jobs and reducing poverty lie at the heart of these programmes.
The ANC is the only hope for all the people of South Africa. [Interjections.] [Applause.] It is the only organisation that will change the lives of the people of our country for the better. [Applause.]
I want to respond to what the hon Dreyer said. It is not through your wisdom, hon Dreyer, that you know what the challenges of the department are. Remember, these were tabled in the portfolio committee. They told us these things themselves.
Also, hon Dreyer, regarding the issue of capacity and the recommendation you put before this House, the hon Minister presented the turnaround strategy to the portfolio committee in detail, indicating how the challenges of the department would be turned around. So, the recommendations you came up with were tabled by the Minister himself in the portfolio committee. [Applause.] So, hon member, you know that the recommendations you were making to this House were covered in the turnaround strategy by the hon Minister. [Interjections.] What you were supposed to do, hon member, was to say to the hon Minister: "I second what you have tabled before this House", rather than coming up with these things as if they were due to your own wisdom. [Applause.]
Also, the concerns raised by the DA - the shortages of schools, the lack of capacity, poverty, unemployment and inequality - are the legacies of the apartheid regime. These social ills were constructed and forcefully instilled in our people through apartheid legislation. [Interjections.]
Order, hon members! Order, hon members! [Interjections.] Hon member, will you take your seat please?
Hon members on both sides of the House, we will allow interjections, but you can't shout in the House. Let us allow the member to be heard. Also, to my hon members on the right, it's in your own interests to listen to what the hon member has to say. Proceed, hon member.
Thank you, hon Chair. These social ills were constructed and forcefully instilled in our people through apartheid legislation, for example the Bantu Education Act, Act No 47 of 1953 by Verwoerd, and the Natives Land Act, Act No 27 of 1913. Through this Act our people were removed from fertile soil and put in the desert. The Group Areas Act, Act No 41 of 1950, divided our people. [Interjections.]
Order, hon members!
That's the reason we are experiencing the triple challenge in our country today. The DA was part of that apartheid government. [Interjections.]
Babethule sengathi basepasini, bengasho lutho. [They were just silent.] They were just silent. They were quiet, as if they were not part of that past.
Chairperson, I rise on a point of order. The hon member just made a statement that the DA was part of the apartheid government. [Interjections.] It is factually and historically incorrect. She is misleading this House! Thank you.
Order, hon members! Hon members! [Interjections.] Hon member, that is not a point of order. It is a matter for debate. Continue, hon member. [Laughter.] [Applause.]
Thank you. As the ANC, we are inviting everybody to be part of nation-building. The ANC supports the Budget Vote. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Hon Chairperson, let me begin by thanking all the members for their constructive input. I want to thank the opposition parties, the IFP, the UDM, the FF Plus and the UCDP, and I also want to indicate to uBab' Sithole that we are anxious to deal quickly with nonperformance. However, there are procedures in law that we have to follow as part of labour relations. We have to respect those procedures. So we are as anxious as you are, but we have to act procedurally. Also, all the constructive contributions you have made, including those by the ANC, will be considered in our implementation process as we will be revising some of the issues. I am not going to be able to mention all of them one by one in my response.
However, Ntate Moruti Meshoe, as a man of the cloth, I expected that you would pray for us. Instead, you continued condemning us. [Laughter.] [Applause.] I thought it was important that you listened to the debates in the committee and be a member of the committee. Maybe then you would have had a better perspective. I had expected that, as a man of the cloth, you would show us love and sympathy and give us hope. But all you were doing was just condemning and condemning. [Interjections.]
I have decided to use the few minutes I have to respond to the hon Dreyer and her colleague, hon Swathe. Hon Dreyer, what was new in what you were saying? What did we not mention in the committee? What was new? In trying to use my own words against me, I don't think ...
Grabouw in the Western Cape is new. [Interjections.]
I don't think the hon member ...
Order! Hon Minister, will you take your seat, please.
Hon member, please rise. You may not use the microphone if you are not acknowledged by the Chair. Please refrain from doing so in future. You may be seated. Hon Minister ...
Thank you, hon Chairperson. I'm saying that in trying to use my own words against me, I don't think the hon member understood my approach. I take the view that we have to be open and transparent and acknowledge problems. That is the first step towards tackling those problems. Don't attack us for being transparent, because all the information you have, you received from us.
Regarding the lack of professionalism and the need for the correct mix of skills to run the department, I am in agreement with the hon member. But then, in part, that is what my speech and the turnaround strategy are about. Did you listen to my speech?
HON MEMBERS: No!
Where I part ways with the hon Swathe is in relation to his view of the Department of Public Works and indeed of the entire state it is in. [Interjections.] He said that it was totally dysfunctional and should be scrapped. That is not the case. There are productive areas in the department. The EPWP is a case in point. Our professional services unit includes highly skilled people. Despite its flaws and in the face of negativity, the Department of Public Works soldiers on because of the hard work and the commitment of the officials. My job is to help create the right environment that is conducive to that commitment.
The negativity and hopelessness purveyed by the DA is not going to help us. What is required here is clear direction and strong leadership - even here in Parliament, even in the portfolio committee and even from you, hon member. That is also what we are providing at the national department. So we are dealing with those issues.
For the record, hon Dreyer, the issues of Du Noon and Grabouw were raised with me by both the Premier and the Mayor of Cape Town. I was a very important man. For the first time, both of them came into my office. For the record, they raised this issue with me on 16 February this year. I indicated to the premier that I would follow up on the matter in terms of procedure. That did not mean that just because the case came from Madam Premier Zille, I had to jump. It did not mean that. As with all other requirements from all the provinces, procedures have to be followed.
Remember, the question of land is not an easy one, because state land from other spheres cannot simply be transferred unprocedurally. You have to do a lot of investigating. You need to know everything about the particular piece of land, what it is going to be used for and whether there is no alternative land. You must do all that investigation. We need to investigate and, above all, satisfy ourselves. Transferring that land is also a concurrent function with Land Reform. [Inaudible.] Just because the madam has spoken, we must jump. We're not going to do that. [Applause.] [Interjections.] I want to be very honest. You are a messenger to those who have sent you - and they must be honest. They must not get excited by what they see in the media and then become all populist. They even go to the extent of saying that they phoned the Minister but he was still asleep. It doesn't mean that if you don't get me on the phone at seven o'clock, I am still asleep. Don't get excited by what you see in the media, just for the sake of getting excited. Just stick to the facts. [Interjections.] Don't lie. So that is what I am trying to say. Convey that particular message.
We are processing those issues according to procedure. If, as you are threatening, you have other means, you are free to use them, but we will not jump because the madam has spoken. So we are dealing with this matter as the department. Very interestingly, why would the premier want to run the portfolio of another MEC? Is the MEC of Public Works afraid of me or of dealing with these issues? It shows the type of governance you have: other people are just being made into toys. The premier wants to run everything. [Interjections.]
Lastly, the DA should be the last to complain because here in Athlone in the Western Cape, the DA provincial government has been sitting for almost three years on an application to approve a building becoming a Thusong building. They have not yet approved the application because it is ANC people. [Interjections.] If you are asking the question of how you can trust this department and how you can trust me because of what has happened, then let me ask you a simple question: Why did you give me the CV of an engineer when I called for technical people to help me? Why did you give me that CV if you don't trust us? [Interjections.] Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.