Alleged Corruption By Anc Members (Minister's Response)

USEKELA NGQONGQOSHE WEZOKUTHUTHUKISWA KOMPHAKATHI: Ngiyabonga Sihlalo. Kwilungu elihloniphekile le-Cope, uBaba uKganare, kuyaphazamisa ukuthi uzwe ilungu elihloniphekile lenza sengathi i-Cope yiyona elwa nokukhwabanisa. Kuyaziwa-ke ukuthi i-ANC yiyona ngokwayo elwa nokukhwabanisa kuleli lizwe. Iphumele obala lapho kubonakala khona ukukhwabanisa. Sithi-ke umnyango uvulekile ukuthi sinikezwe imininingwane nakule ndaba yokukhwabanisa akhuluma ngayo uMnu uKganare, hhayi inzwabethi. Ngiyakholwa-ke ukuthi uzoyidlulisela eMnyangweni ofanele imininingwane ukuze sibone ukuthi kuyiqiniso yini loku okhuluma ngakho.

Siyafisa belu ukuthi uma sikhuluma izinto ezifana nalezi, sizihlole nathi ukuthi ngaphambilini ekuphatheni kwethu sashiya senzeni emuva kwethu. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[The DEPUTY MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Thank you, Chairperson. To the hon member of Cope, Mr Kganare, I find it disturbing that you are implying that your party is the one fighting corruption. It is common knowledge that it is the ANC itself that is fighting corruption in this country. It has made its standpoint regarding corruption very clear. The department is prepared to be provided with detailed information regarding the corruption allegations brought forward by Mr Kganare. We cannot entertain rumours. I hope that you are going to submit the details to the relevant department.

Before making allegations like these, we wish that everyone would first reflect on their previous tenure in office and the reputation they established.]

The hon Deputy Minister is insinuating that the fact that we are talking about ... [Interjections.] I have not finished.

Could you just finish, hon member.

My point of order is: Is it parliamentary for the Deputy Minister to insinuate that the fact that I am raising the issue of corruption means that I committed corruption when I was in the same position?

Hon member, this insinuation that you are talking about is neither here nor there. So, I am not allowing that point of order.

You covered me. He must never attribute his thoughts to the Minister's mind.

The ministerial responses are over. Could we please get on with the work of this House. That concludes ... [Interjections.]

Madam Speaker ... Madam Speaker, on a point of order: this is the third time in as many months that I have to address the Chair on the glaring absence of Ministers in these sections of statements. [Interjections.] They can shout as much as they like. The fact of the matter is that the Ministers are disregarding Parliament, where they should be. [Interjections.]

Point of order! Point of order!

The Chief Whip of the Majority Party cannot take a point of order while I am giving ...

Point of order!

Madam Speaker, on two occasions I have raised a point of order on this, and I was promised that the matter would be attended to. It is a shame for South Africa that the Ministers have so little respect for Parliament. [Interjections.]

Hon House Chairperson, the hon Watson is a member of the Chief Whips' Forum. He has a place where he can find out why Ministers are absent. We cannot use this forum to do that. [Interjections.]

House Chairperson, if the Chief Whip took the trouble to attend Chief Whips' Forums, maybe I could ask him.

Alright, could we get on with the business of the House. The Secretary will read the First Order of the Day.

Madam Chairperson, I apologise for interrupting the Table, but I raised a point of order which you have not replied to yet.

I suggest you look at Rule 105/6. Look at that Rule. You ought to know that Rule because you are Chief Whip of that party.

With all due respect, Madam, that is not a ruling. To tell me to read a Rule is not a ruling. Would you please make a ruling.

Chairperson, I think that the hon member does not understand English. In simple English all this means is that you do not have a point of order. [Interjections.] Full stop! There is no ruling to be made.

Mr Watson ...

"Hon" Watson.

The hon Watson, the hon Watson - double hon Watson - I will not take that point of order. Shall we continue.

Could you please explain to me why you do not take it, Madam?

Look, we have ... [Interjections.] Because there are various reasons why Ministers are not here. Do you understand that? [Interjections.]

No, no ...

We've had this before.

Madam Chair, I did not ask ... [Interjections.]

You have been here since 1994. Why are you trying to make a mess of this session of Parliament? Why are you trying ... [Interjections.]

I am tempted to say something, but I will not. Could I just ... [Interjections.]

You know very well what is happening here. You know very well that the Diaspora Congress is going on. All of those things! So why are you inhibiting the work of the Chamber? [Interjections.]

Madam Chair, with all respect due to you, I did not ask you anything to enter into a debate with you.

Yes, you are.

I asked for a ruling. [Interjections.]

Will you please sit down. [Interjections.] Carry on! If you like to sing, sing.