Speaker, I just had a temporary lapse. I would like to start with the hon member, and my attempt to bring a point of order to the House. The President, in fact, received the census report from the Minister of Development and Planning in a public engagement, where he was very excited about the outcome of the census, because for the first time we were able to get a glimpse of South Africa as it is. More importantly, we were able to see the impressive improvements that have been brought about by the ANC government in that particular census. [Applause.]
The President congratulated the census people, calling the chief of the team the "Yellow Man". The matter was brought before Cabinet. Cabinet in turn congratulated the census team, because we are exceedingly happy. It keeps us on our toes, understanding what it is that we are doing and what it is that we are not doing. But more importantly, that we, as government, are succeeding. Read that census.
I would like therefore, as a point of order, to indicate that the hon member misled the House. It is against the Rules of this House that he should say what he said when he knows very well that it is not true. If he didn't, I am pointing it out now, and I would like him to please withdraw that remark. [Interjections.] [Applause.]
Hon member?
I have, I have ... I was still on the floor, not unless it is ...
Yes, she is still on the floor.
Speaker, on a point of order: There is absolutely no way in which the Minister can call on our member to withdraw a statement that he made in the House. [Interjections.] The ANC tries to control everything, but they will not control the content of debate in this House. Thank you. [Interjections.]
Mr Speaker, I would like to address you on the point of order raised before you rule. This issue has been raised now for the third time in this House - whether or not a point of order can be raised in respect of the allegation of a member that he or she has said something which is not true. It is a serious matter. We cannot be held by the standard of truth, assessed from the one side or the other side of the aisle. If we get into discussions on whether something said by a politician is true, we are going to have an infinite number of points of order with no improvement in the quality of debate.
Hon member, it is no longer a point of order. It is now a statement. Take your seat, hon member.
No, Speaker, I would urge you therefore to rule that it is not unparliamentary. Thank you.
Mr Speaker, the Rules of this House are very clear: misleading the House is unacceptable. I therefore request that you study the Hansard. I therefore request that you study what the member has said. It is not a question of who said what; what he is saying is blatantly untrue - misleading the House.
Hon Minister, I will study the Hansard and come back with a ruling on this matter.
Speaker, on a point of order: Can the Minister please just explain to us to which Rule she is referring? [Interjections.]
Hon member, please take your seat. I have made a ruling. I will study the Hansard and come back on this issue.
Speaker, thank you ...
Your time has expired.
Speaker, no, my time has been eaten up with other business - it is a second matter, Speaker. May you allow me to indicate? The hon Maynier ...
That means that the hon Minister after you won't be able to say anything. You can make use of his time. Continue, hon Minister. That would be the end of Minister's Responses. Minister Sisulu, continue. Leave the other Sisulu behind you. You continue. [Laughter.]
Speaker, on a point of order: Under chapter 9 of the Rules, Rule 105(6), it is very clear that a Minister only has two minutes to respond and no more.
Per question! [Interjections.]
Order, hon members! There are six opportunities for Ministers' Responses, according to the handbook that you have in front of you. Five have responded, and a Minister can take the slot of another Minister. That is why I said he will not get an opportunity. [Applause.] Order, hon members!
Speaker, I had a very educational experience here, when I did not want to use the word "rubbish". That is what I meant, but I cannot use it in Parliament. I was assisted, very ably assisted, by the hon uMtwana ka Phindangene, former Minister, who said that in Parliament, you can say "hogwash". I was also assisted by Koos van der Merwe, who said it could be called "balderdash". Both of them apply to the hon Maynier. [Laughter.]
Mr Speaker, I insist that I took 35 flights. Your flight of fancy, wherever you meet your journalists, or wherever you get your information, wherever you are handled from, there were 35. I have referred the matter ...
Order, hon members! Order!
I have referred the matter to the presiding officers and the Leader of Government Business, and they will respond to that tomorrow. So, you can keep your flea-infested body at peace and sit down. [Applause.]
Order, hon members, order! That concludes Ministers' Responses.
Speaker, on a point of order: The Minister indicated that the hon Maynier had a "flea-infested body," which I think is a verbal insult on a hon member's integrity. I would like her to withdraw that statement, sir.
I will study the Hansard and come back with a ruling. [Interjections.] Order, hon members! Order! Order!