Voorsitter, Adjunkminister, lede en kamerade, ek het vyf blaaie hier gehad, maar die Minister, soos die agb voorsitter van die komitee alreeds ges het, het omtrent alles verduidelik.
Ek het tog 'n paar interessante punte wat ek self wil ophaal. Die skrapping van hierdie wetgewing is eintlik om die demokrasie te verbreed. Nou wil ek ook darem aan die opposisie noem dat ons as die ANC die meeste voordeel uit hierdie wetgewing getrek het en ons het volstaan by die skrapping hiervan, maar ek hoor nie die agb Worth wens ons geluk en s vir ons dankie dat ons darem 'n goeie ding ook doen en dat ons nie net na die party se aanwins kyk nie. [Tussenwerpsels.]
Julle moet ons darem nie net altyd kritiseer nie, agb Watson. S darem ook as ons 'n goeie ding doen, want dis wat die demokrasie verbreed.
Agb Minister, hierdie oorloopwetgewing het veral die Wes-Kaap baie onstabiel gemaak, maar ons het 'n spesiale afgevaardigde van die Wes-Kaap wat seker verder hieroor sal uitbrei. U weet, ons vorige LUR, die agb Richard Dyantyi, het die munisipaliteite in die Wes-Kaap "maak-'n-las- munisipaliteite" genoem, en alles wat dit tot gevolg gehad het was nog net negatief en al die redes soos u dit genoem het, is bekend aan ons almal.
Ek wil net op een ding fokus, naamlik die negatiewe uitwerking wat dit op die amptenary gehad het. Toe die mag in 'n munisipaliteit verskuif het, was die munisipale bestuurder sy pos kwyt en amptenare was hul poste kwyt. 'n Baie bekende geval was di van Mgoqi in die Kaapse Metro, en wat is die uitwerking daarvan op dienslewering? Nou wil ek amper vra of dit gaan stop. Ons skrap nou hierdie oorloopwetgewing, maar moet ons nie miskien kyk hoe ons die termyne van amptenare ook in pas kan bring sodat hulle nie net enige tyd afgedank of vervang kan word nie en daar in 'n mate ook stabiliteit onder die amptenary is wat beleid betref? Die termyne van amptenare is ook belangrik.
Daar is ook 'n ander punt waarop ons moet fokus. Koalisievorming is ook iets wat die onstabiliteit veroorsaak het en was die gevolg van oorloopwetgewing. Nou wil ek die agb Watson se vere 'n bietjie omkrap. 'n Mens kry gevalle waar minderheidspartye bymekaarkom en dan 'n regering vorm wat die meerderheidsparty, wat immers die meeste stemme op hom verenig het, die reg ontneem om te regeer. Is dit nou demokrasie in werking, waar die meerderheid mense die meerderheidsparty ontneem word omdat 'n paar klein partytjies met een of twee manne saamkom om te regeer? [Tussenwerpsels.] Ja, ek het geweet ek gaan die vere 'n bietjie omkrap!
Die ander punt waarop ek ook u aandag wil vestig, het die agb Watson juis genoem. U sien, oorloopwetgewing is nou uit die weg geruim, maar daar is nou 'n nuwe tendens - raadslede bedank nou en dwing 'n tussenverkiesing af. [Tussenwerpsels.] Dit kan demokraties wees, maar in hoe 'n mate gaan ons koalisievorming en bedankings om 'n regering of enige wetgewer om te krap en te destabiliseer reguleer? Kan ons daarna kyk, want bedankings kom nou voor uit suiwer politieke motiewe, nie met die doel om die mense of demokrasie te dien nie. Dit is van die nuwe goed wat nou gebeur. Ons stop die oorloopwetgewing, maar nou kry mense alternatiewe. Ons is in 'n land waar ons leer.
Ons het nou uitgevind oorloopwetgewing is nie goed vir die demokrasie nie, maar daar is ander goed. Een van die goed, agb Watson, wat ek nogal verbaas is om te sien, en ek het dit in die komitee genoem aan my kollegas, is dat ek sien die DA adverteer in die koerante dat as 'n mens dink jy is LP- materiaal en jy kan dit motiveer, kan jy ... Daar is 'n advertensie in die koerante. [Tussenwerpsels.] Nou wonder ek net, hoe ... (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Mr N J MACK: Chairperson, Deputy Minister, members and comrades, I had five pages here, but, as the hon chairperson of the committee has already said, the Minister has explained just about everything.
I still have a few interesting points that I would like to mention myself. The scrapping of this legislation will actually broaden democracy. But now I want to mention to the opposition that we as the ANC actually benefited most from this legislation and that we have contented ourselves with its scrapping, but I don't hear the hon Worth thanking and congratulating us on this good move and on not having just considered the party's gains. [Interjections.]
You shouldn't always just criticise us, hon Watson. If we do something right, just say so, because that is what broadens democracy.
Hon Minister, this floor-crossing legislation has made the Western Cape in particular very unstable, but we have a special delegate from the Western Cape who will surely elaborate on this. You know, our previous MEC, the hon Richard Dyantyi, called the municipalities in the Western Cape "make-a- nuisance" municipalities and what this has led to has only been negative, while the reasons, as mentioned by you, are known to us all.
I just want to focus on one thing, namely the negative effect this has had on the officials. When the power within a municipality shifted, that municipality's manager would lose his position and officials would lose their positions. A very well-known case was that of Mgoqi in the Cape Metro, and what was the effect of that on service delivery? I almost want to ask if this is now going to stop. We are now scrapping this floor- crossing legislation, but shouldn't we perhaps also be looking at aligning the terms of officials so that they can't be discharged or replaced at just any time and so that there can be a degree of stability among the officialdom as regards policy? The terms of officials are also important.
There is also another point we must focus on. The forming of coalitions, another factor that creates instability, is also the result of floor- crossing legislation. And now I want to ruffle the hon Watson's feathers a bit. There are cases when minority parties come together to form a government, denying the majority party, which of course amassed the most votes, the right to govern. Would that be democracy in action, when the majority of the people are denied their majority party because a few small parties with one or two people have come together in order to govern? [Interjections.] Yes, I knew I would be ruffling a few feathers.
The other point to which I would like to call your attention has just been mentioned by the hon Watson. You see, floor-crossing legislation has now been removed, but now there is a new trend - councillors are resigning and forcing by-elections. [Interjections.] It may be democratic, but to what extent are we going to regulate resignations and the forming of coalitions to upset a government or legislature? Can we take a look at that, because resignations are now occurring with purely political motives, not in order to serve the people or democracy. These are some of the new things that are now taking place. We have stopped the floor-crossing legislation, but now people are finding alternatives. We live and learn in this country. We have now come to realise that floor-crossing legislation is not good for democracy, but there are other things. One of them, hon Watson, which I was quite surprised to see, and in the committee I have mentioned this to my colleagues, is the DA advertising in the newspapers that if you think you are MP material and you can motivate accordingly, then you can try ... There's an advertisement in the newspapers. [Interjections.] I'm just wondering how ...]