Chair, I did apologise for that.
Ek is ook doodseker ... [I am also very sure] ... that we will try our best to address some of these issues. However, I'm also making a call to artisans who are retired and are out there - plumbers and other people, and even amongst the offenders we do have some of these artisans - to come forward so that we can give them some work to do so as to help the others to gain these skills. I'm making that call, but I'm making that call also to offenders, because we have plumbers who are offenders and they do work within our facilities and we do pay them a certain stipend.