No, my time is not up and that's the unfortunate part of it. You must also ask your Whips how they allocate time, before you come and complain here. I think we must wait for the process of Nedlac to be finalised and then, when it's your turn as parliamentarians to deliberate on those proposed amendments, that's when you can also try to convince each other on what that legislation should look like.
I want to say that you must consider what has been said by the public. I have not even said what the public said, but I know that as Members of Parliament you are going to do public hearings; therefore, you must wait for that moment.
I also want to give clarity on certain issues, because it seems as if you are saying that the Department of Labour is working for Cosatu, or whatever. As the Department of Labour we are working with three federations, that is Cosatu, the Federation of Unions of South Africa, Fedusa, and Nactwu.
We also include the organised businesses as our social partners. That is why, in most cases, whenever we deal with labour issues we involve both organised labour and businesses.
If you remember - I do believe that you always watch the news - we had the business summit and later had the labour job summit. Those are the things that I want to clarify because, yes, we may have the alliance with Cosatu, but some of you also have an alliance with Fedusa, but we don't complain about that. It's unfortunate that in most cases you go out and speak on behalf of the federations without their mandate. I think that we must wait for the processes to unfold. [Interjections.]
You also raised the issue of factories being closed in Newcastle because of the Bargaining Council's decisions. As a country we have legislation that allows companies to apply for exemptions. If those companies don't want to do so, we can't force them to apply. Therefore, I think that we need to accept that it was their decision not to apply for the exemptions.
I also want to touch on the issue of labour brokers. I said that there are labour brokers that have negative tendencies. For example, at Shoprite Checkers and Rainbow Chickens in KwaZulu-Natal there were two incidents in which workers were killed by machines.
When the families went there to claim, Rainbow Chickens said that the guy was employed by a labour broker and the company, therefore, can't pay anything for that particular person. They don't even get pensions when they leave these companies, while you as Members of Parliament enjoy the fact that when you leave Parliament you will get pensions. I think that we must look into those issues and determine how we should protect our vulnerable workers in this country. We must also make sure that whoever invests in this country complies with the laws of the country. That's when we will be able to be proud and say that we protect both the employers and the employees, particularly the employees.
By the way, when strikes are taking place in some instances, you must not undermine workers and think that they don't understand the financial implications in those particular companies. Workers know how much profit was made, and therefore, they also want to get something out of that. You can't pay a person a bonus of R1 million while you can't afford to pay just R300, as an increment, for a lower-paid worker in that particular company. I think that we must look at those things.
Lastly, I just want to say that these proposed amendments are based on the international conventions - of which organised businesses and labour from South Africa are signatories - on how we should treat workers as social partners.
I believe, hon Ollis, that you will be in Geneva and you will be able to interrogate those decisions, and even if you are not able to convince other people, you will be bound by those decisions that are going to be taken in the ILO.
Finally, I just want to say to the hon members that, as Members of Parliament, they have the responsibility to do oversight, and oversight is done in different forms. If you want information, you have to tell the department that, as the portfolio committee, you are going to have a meeting and these are the issues you would like the department to come and address you on. That way you will get the correct information, rather than working on assumptions. Thank you. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.