Madam Deputy Chair, thank you very much. I too would like to extend my congratulations to those who have made maiden speeches here this morning, and also to the Deputy Minister on her appointment. I noted with interest her remark about "he is my friend", and would like to remind her that some other person in this line of policing said, "He is my friend, finish and klaar!"
One wonders if the new Ipid is going to have the ability or the spine, when a National Commissioner of Police of steps out of line, to be prepared to take the national police commissioner to task. That really is where the nub of this matter lies.
Independence itself is not a matter of degree; either a body is independent or it is not. The criteria determining independence are judged as set out in the heads of argument filed by the Helen Suzman Foundation in the recent appeal before the Constitutional Court in the Glenister litigation, in which the reinstatement of the Directorate of Special Operations is sought.
The question, therefore, remains: Who will guard the guardians? For those of you who know a bit of Latin: Quis custodiet ipsos custodes, which is also the national motto of our intelligence agency.
The existing Independent Complaints Directorate in South Africa is not functioning well. This has been admitted by the Deputy Minister, and I think that we all agree that it has severe shortcomings. But any body formed to investigate and adjudicate upon a criminal activity needs to enjoy a measure of independence for it to function properly and in accordance with those requirements of law.
Fairness is at the core of the rule of law. I listened with some interest to some of the remarks made, especially by my colleague in the Western Cape legislature, Mr Patrick "Promises" McKenzie, who said that we are arguing a technicality; but we are arguing about constitutional law. The Constitution of South Africa is not a technicality.
This House is here to protect the rights and responsibilities of the provinces, both to hold it in judgement and, at the same time, to support the powers of provinces. The argument made by the hon MEC for Community safety did just that.
As far as the Western Cape is concerned - just to put your minds at ease about whether we just took unilateral decisions or not - what we did was to hold four public hearings. We had over 40 community police forum chairpersons who attended the public hearings. We had inputs and evidence from lawyers, from departments and the like. We gave that information.
We also had input from the two sponsors of the two Bills. We gave the findings of those hearings to the various sponsors and, in the case of the Independent Complaints Directorate, they declined to answer the arguments as raised in the hearings by the public and simply said that the department supports the adoption of the Ipid Bill.
In other words, they weren't prepared to even discuss the technicalities or arguments that had been raised. They are simply trying to force through a Bill, despite the fact that there is a very credible legal argument - specially as far as the Independent Police Investigative Directorate Bill is concerned - that proper independence is not involved.
The Bill says that the directorate functions independently of the SA Police Service. It is the opinion of the Western Cape Standing Committee on Community Safety that the independence afforded by the IPID Bill is grossly inadequate.
The directorate, although removed from the SAPS, continues to reside under the Ministry of Police. The Minister is therefore the political head of both the SA Police Service and the directorate. The Minister in question is therefore the responsible Minister against whom complaints may be lodged in terms of the Bill.
If one is concerned about whether the Minister may or may not involve himself in the matters of policing, I refer you to an article of 10 November 2010 which reported that Minister Nathi Mthethwa issued an instruction for the boys to be arrested, and that this was done. That was in regard to that case of those youngsters who filmed each other having sex, and it was a case of rape. They arrested the kids and then had to let them go because due process had not been followed. I thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
UMntwana M M M ZULU: Phini kaSihlalo waleNdlu, namalungu ahloniphekile, Phini likaNgqongqoshe noma selingasekho, njengenhlangano ye-IFP siyawemukela ngokupheleleyo loMthethosivivinywa Wophiko Lwamaphoyisa Lophenyo Oluzimele ngoba uyinto enhle kakhulu ekusebenzeni.
Kwakungamele nakancane kuvunyelwe amaphoyisa abengonqeqe bezazi zomthetho, bavele badubule abantu bakithi. Sebekhulumile abanye abafowethu abangaphambili kwami kunomuntu oyedwa odlala imidlalo eminingi ngingeze ngagxila kukho lokho ngoba akufuneki umuntu anikeza ukuba abantu benze okuthile kwabanye bese etshela abanye ukuthi benze okuthile kwabanye. Into edidayo-ke leyo.
Into esifuna ukuyiphakamisa eqenjini elibusayo uma behlongoza okuthile okuhle kumele sikuxhase lokho, ukuze ezweni lethu kuzoba khona ukuchaza nokuzibophezela kuzo zonke izinhlaka zikahulumeni. Ukungaziphathi kahle kwamaphoyisa akuzukwamukeleka, uma ngingenza isibonelo esisodwa, kukhona umfana esifundeni sakwaNongoma endaweni okuthiwa uSuthu, kwathiwa lomfana wadlwengula intombazane encane.
Lo mfana wayengesona isigebengu wayeyisakhamuzi sendawo, eziphuzela amambawa njengawo wonke umuntu. Ngalolo suku wathola lengane ishiywe ngabazali bayo wase uyayithatha, uhamba nayo endlini. Emva kwalokho wase eboshelwa ukuthi uyidlwengulile. Amaphoyisa amshaya waze wafa, lelo kwakuyicala elikhulu.
Ngalawo magama Ngqongqoshe ohloniphekile ngifuna ukuthi osopolotiki abangagxambukeli emsebenzini wamaphoyisa.
Ngoba uma singagxambukeli emsebenzini wamaphoyisa, amaphoyisa angenza umsebenzi omuhle.
Loluphiko olusha lwamaphoyisa kumele lwethulwe kuNdunankulu ngamunye wesifundazwe ngasinye ukuze sazi ukuthi kumele aziphathe kanjani. Uma kumele sichaze kuMkhandlu kaZwelonke Wezifundazwe noma kuphi akusho lutho ukuthi iPhalamende lihlezi kuphi.
Kumele sikhombise abantu bethu ukuthi iPhalamende akulona izulu. Sifuna ukwazi ukuthi kwenzakalani kusifundazwe ngasinye futhi abantu kufanele bazi.
NjengeIFP siyayesekela leMithethosivivinywa emibili ukuqapha ukuziphatha kwamaphoyisa. Ngiyabonga. (Translation of isiZulu speech follows.)
[Prince M M M ZULU: Deputy Chairperson of this House, hon members and the Deputy Minister in absentia. The IFP fully accepts this Independent Police Investigative Directorate Bill because it is good.
The police were not supposed to be allowed to be super experts in legal matters, who just randomly shoot at our people. My fellow brothers who have spoken before me, there is a person who plays a lot of games but I would not concentrate on that because that person is sending mixed messages. This is confusing.
What we want to say to the ruling party is that if they propose something good, we must support it, so that there can be accountability and commitment in all spheres of government. Inappropriate conduct by police officers is not going to be tolerated. If I can give just one example, there was a boy in the district of Nongoma in a place called uSuthu, who was alleged to have raped a young girl. This boy was not a criminal; he was a member of the community who used to drink beer like anyone else. On that particular day, he found this child abandoned by her parents and took her to his home. Thereafter he was arrested because it was alleged that he raped her. The police fatally beat him up, which was a serious crime.
With those words, hon Minister, I want to say that politicians should not interfere with police work. If we don't interfere, the police would do an excellent job.
This new police unit must be presented to the premier of each province so that we know what to expect from them. If we have to explain this to the National Council of Provinces or anywhere else, it doesn't matter where Parliament will be sitting.
We must show the people that Parliament is not heaven. We want to know what is happening in each province and people should be informed.
As the IFP we support the two Bills on monitoring the conduct of the police. Thank you.]