Madam Deputy Speaker, good afternoon. The hon Bhoola lives on another planet. Such confusion emerging from him is quite surprising. I thought he understood things slightly better than what he is displaying these days. He needs some treatment, but I don't know where. Comrade Minister, many years ago the ANC indicated its intention of building a nonracial, nonsexist, democratic and united country and society. So the first reference, in as far as we are concerned in the ANC, is that that unity will emerge and come from the state system operating in a coherent, united manner.
We hope that the contributions that are going to be made will be with a view to developing a coherent state system that answers the needs of the majority of the people in this country who are poor. That is why we will agree with you that perhaps we need a framework that will guide our actions, inside the state, and across the board, but especially giving flesh to the name of the department.
That is why we learned from others. Before Samora Machel died he complained bitterly - as part of the reconstruction and development of Mozambique - that the departments were not going together to communities to deal with people's problems. As a result, communities were frustrated. And even as he was saying that - this was many years ago - it was not only in Mozambique where he felt they were experiencing such inabilities, unwillingness or problematic relationships amongst departments in working together to generate a coherent response to people's needs.
I would like us to provide answers to those questions. Part of the problems we were confronting is precisely the incoherent way in which we interact with communities with regard to the stress of especially local government. So the White Paper, ultimately, on this matter of co-operation will speak, we hope, to those concerns in terms of giving meaning to collaboration and co-operation.
Before we start doing anything, let us ask each other who else is affected by what we are going to do. What are the consequences of going ahead without reference to them and what they are doing? How can they add value to what we are going to do? In that sense, I suspect we will be beginning to work towards achieving the goals we want to achieve of better collaboration and co-operation across the three spheres.
Hon Doman, you spoiled your good appreciation of the Minister's intentions here by calling it a mistake when he goes with a Member of Parliament to a constituency he serves - after you said you appreciated his appreciation of these institutions of public representatives. We are public representatives, even outside of this Chamber. It is appropriate that even when Ministers go out in the constituencies, they interact with Members of Parliament who service those constituencies. It makes sense to me, and I would have thought it would be a logical extension in respect of your appreciation, though not for political expediency because you disagree with some of the things that Mr Fransman said - that he should not be included in the consultation process.
We appreciate, Mr Minister, your indication of your intention to initiate this process. One of the reasons why it is important to indicate your intention of developing this is that we are then in a position to go back to our constituencies, to the departments that we interact with, to raise issues that, in our opinion, will contribute to a meaningful debate, discussion and dialogue on what we think collaboration and co-operation are. This is the value of indicating your intention here, so that we can be better prepared to engage with the process.
The question that the hon Dudley asked is what you said earlier in the announcement on the work of the department that is in the process of being done. So these things are going to happen simultaneously, as I understand, in that the support that the municipalities are receiving towards the formulation of comprehensive infrastructure plans is work in progress. Therefore, it cannot be expected that municipalities must first sort this out and then later on think and reflect about the White Paper on collaboration.
In our opinion, it is correct that even as we take action, learn from that action, develop a process of giving that meaning in a framework that guides the work going forward, we think that basic stuff such as respect shown by bureaucrats, efficiency and so on go without saying. This is what Ministers and their leadership in the department do on a regular basis. Where there are failures, they must be attended to. But those cannot be used as a basis for denying the significance of a process to unleash a consultative process to invite Members of Parliament and organisations outside Parliament to contribute to the question of how best we can respond to collaboration on the ground.
What are the experiences that we have as MPs, as organisations of civil society, as departments on the problems of collaboration and co-operation, because they lie at the heart of ineffective delivery of resources that are limited? We will benefit, sir, I believe, from such co-operation that will emerge.
It is also appropriate in my opinion that this is the Fourth Parliament run by the ANC. Also, after 15 years it is appropriate that we review how we have done things in the past. We must learn from that past so that we do not repeat the mistakes of the past. We have repeated them often enough. Ons is nou moeg [We are now tired] of repeating those mistakes. It is appropriate that now we must provide some answers on paper that can continue to guide us going forward, whatever its colour is. Thank you very much, Minister. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.