Deputy Chair, I wish to indicate to the hon member that there is the criminal justice review process by the state and there is also a parallel process which is very interesting. Government and big business have established working groups which include an anti-crime initiative consisting of the anti-crime leadership forum which has four working groups. The working group on the review of the criminal justice system is one of them.
The analysis and recommendations which arise from the review undertaken by the working group are the product of extensive and focused consultations including onsite visits with many and varied relevant stakeholders across the criminal justice system. A report of government and big business's working group with recommendations on certain governance structures of the Cabinet's justice, crime prevention and security cluster was presented to the interministerial committee in August and October.
The interministerial committee has considered the report and made recommendations to the justice, crime prevention and security Cabinet committee. We are hoping that in time, after Cabinet has considered this report, we will bring something to Parliament. Let me say that there is a simultaneous process relating to the review of the criminal justice system which is taking place and that it is intersectorial and interdepartmental. From our side, as Justice, the key driver is the director-general. This process deals with ongoing research and various interventions to improve the efficiency of the criminal justice system. That process has not been concluded.
It is necessary for the House to be informed that various short-term solutions were identified during both processes. It is within this context that the justice, crime prevention and security cluster continues to co- operate to find the best ways to deal with the challenge of crime prevention. I thank you.
Thank you, Chairperson. Hon Minister, I thank you for your response. We shall await your report. However, in respect of the simultaneous process, this review being conducted by your director-general, I refer to the digital recording system known as the Direct Communication Radio Services, the DCRS, which has been installed in over 2 000 courts. Does the Minister intend to extend this to more courts? And how has the DCRS assisted service delivery of the department?
Chairperson, all courts in South Africa now have the digital recording system. I must say that we are pleased to indicate that it is actually working very well. It enhances fairness and eliminates human error. I must say that there is a good reaction to having these systems in place, from the magistrates and the prosecutors.
Quarterly briefings for public and media on readiness of SA Police Service for 2010 World Cup Tournament
358. Mr V B Ndlovu (IFP) asked the Minister of Safety and Security:
Whether he will conduct quarterly briefings for the public and media on the state of the SA Police Service's readiness for the 2010 Soccer World Cup tournament; if not, why not; if so, when will the first briefing take place? NO2352E
Thank you. No, the security plan for the 2010 Fifa World Cup forms part of a comprehensive plan covering various areas such as accommodation, transport, health, tourism, stadiums, infrastructure and events. Regular briefings are held by government and the local organising committee on progress concerning the plan, including the security plan.
Thank you very much, sir. Minister, does the plan include Interpol and the structures that are supposed to deal with those people who are coming into the country? I am asking this question because there will be different languages and different people that will be coming into the country. Are we ready with all the languages and the involvement of Interpol?
There is a broad plan that was adopted. In fact, if you were to go and read the bid book from when we were still trying to secure the tournament for South Africa, you would see some of the things that were suggested regarding protection of that tournament and, of course, also the people who would be coming to South Africa.
We are working together with a number of international policing agencies. You should remember that this tournament is not actually a South African tournament but that we are simply hosting it. It is a Fifa World Cup. Therefore, even from the point of view of Fifa, there are arrangements that are in place.
With regard to the southern portion of our continent, we have what is called the Southern African Regional Police Chiefs Organisation, and that organisation, which is a SADC instrument, has also been meeting, where issues relating to the security of the 2010 World Cup are being discussed. So, we are comfortable in the knowledge that everything is being done to address issues that relate to safety and security during that period.
Thank you, Chairperson. Minister, in the run-up, surely the briefings should include the latest crime statistics, quarterly or even more regularly, so that visitors planning to attend the 2010 event will know what to expect when they land on our shores? If you disagree with this, what possible explanation do you have for excising the most relevant piece of information possible from such public briefings?
Hon member, earlier on in the life of our democracy, we hosted the Rugby World Cup the finals of which are going to be played in France on Saturday, this time around. During that time in 1995, we were able to host that tournament and we were able to provide protection for that tournament and as a consequence of that, we were asked again to host another world cup tournament when, in 2003, we hosted the Cricket World Cup.
Apart from that, in 1996, again - this was earlier on in the life of our democracy - we were asked to host the African Cup of Nations. Again, we provided very good protection for that tournament.
Now, between 1995 and 2003, crime levels were higher than the situation is today, but we were able not only to give good protection to those events but, in fact, we protected the World Summit on Sustainable Development in 2002. The United Nations, coming as they did from Seattle - do you remember the problems of Seattle, Genoa and Melbourne - to South Africa, found that whereas in Seattle, Genoa and Melbourne there were big problems, in South Africa we were able to provide significant and effective protection. The United Nations asked us to assist in training people for the purposes of that kind of protection.
I want to say to you that we are not going to do anything new, except that this time around we are going to be assisted by the various nations of the world to protect 2010. To go around raising statistics of this, that and the other is not part of that plan. [Applause.]
Voorsitter, ek wil vir die agb Minister iets vra. Nasionale kommissaris Jackie Selebi het vroer vanjaar by 'n portefeuljekomitee van Veiligheid en Sekuritiet ges hy weet nie of hy die mense sal moet arresteer as hulle in die openbaar drink of hul skuldig maak aan prostitusie tydens die 2010-Wreldbekerreeks nie. Nou vra ek vir die agb Minister, wat s u, agb Minister, gaan die mense gearresteer word as hulle in die openbaar drink en as hulle hul skuldig maak aan prostitusie tydens die 2010-Wreldbekerreeks? (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[Mr P J GROENEWALD: Chairperson, I want to ask the hon Minister: His National Commissioner, Commissioner Jackie Selebi, said earlier this year, at a meeting of the Portfolio Committee on Safety and Security, that he did not know whether he should arrest people if they drink in public or make themselves guilty of prostitution during the 2010 World Cup tournament. Now I want to ask the hon Minister: What do you say, hon Minister? Are the people going to be arrested if they drink in public or make themselves guilty of prostitution during the 2010 World Cup tournament?]
Thank you very much. Hon member, anybody who breaks the law will be arrested. [Applause.]
Thank you very much. Minister, at the beginning of the year, as hon Groenewald indicated, the police made their presentation to the portfolio committee on their preparedness for 2010. Among the issues raised was the issue of training. My question is: What measures are being put in place to train a larger number of SA Police Service members in crowd control with a view to the 2010 World Cup? I thank you.
Thank you very much. Training generally for members of the SA Police Service is an ongoing project. This one that relates to larger numbers of people who are going to be deployed is also receiving attention. Mind you, we are not only dealing with the police; there is another category of people we are helping to bring up because, at the venues where the matches will be played, you will have two types of deployments. The police will work on the outer perimeter of those stadia while inside it will be security companies that take charge. This is in terms of the normal rules of Fifa.
That is what we are going to do but, this time around - we did not do this in the previous tournaments, for instance - we are also going to be training those security guards that will be responsible for protection inside the stadiums. So the issue of training is uppermost in our programme for the preparations for 2010.
Progress made in implementation of Safe Schools Programme
355. Mr M S Moatshe (ANC) asked the Minister of Safety and Security:
What progress has been made with the implementation of the Safe Schools Programme as part of the crime prevention initiatives of the SA Police Service? NO2348E
The Safe Schools Programme is an initiative of and is led by the national and provincial departments of education. The SA Police Service plays a supporting role to the departments and school communities to ensure school safety.
Progress in respect of the implementation of the state school's programme as a crime prevention initiative includes the following: Firstly, the identification by the national Department of Education of 584 schools in all provinces that needed particular support with regard to safety; secondly, visits to each province, focusing on one school per province, were conducted in co-operation with the SAPS to engage provincial education departments to identify specific needs and inform national planning and budgeting; thirdly, a draft strategic plan on safe schools, including the signpost for safer schools and to address violence in schools, has been compiled in consultation with the Department of Education. The strategic plan is going to be rolled out to all the provinces soon.
The programme facilitates trust among the SAPS, learners and the school community. Consequently, the learners have found it easier to report child abuse cases. The SAPS works with the Department of Social Development and the Department of Education on the national Substance Abuse Prevention Programme called Ke Moja which specifically focuses on children, the youth and schools.
On 4 August 2007 a sports event against drugs was held in Mamelodi. Schools from Mamelodi, Mamelodi East, Eersterus and Silverton participated. A drug expert addressed the children on the dangers of drugs. A reduction in crime was noted in areas where the programme was implemented. Thank you.
Chairperson, I want to thank the Minister for his comprehensive response. In the past few months we have seen disturbing incidents of violence at schools among learners. In the most severe instances learners were killed. Will the Safe Schools Programme be able to address these instances, and if so, how?
Yes, that project is going to ensure that there is safety in our schools. I want to repeat a call that I have made on several occasions, here in Parliament, that it is not always just sending the law-enforcement agencies into situations that would help in the end but it is when all of us, including the communities and those who are in those schools, participate in that project because we require information to be able to do the things we want to do.
Secondly, some of the characteristics of the project mean that now and again the law-enforcement agencies ought to enter the school premises, among other things, to do searches and so on. There has to be an understanding, therefore, and fortunately Parliament has passed a law that relates to this, that they be allowed to do that work because in the end it is going to help to reduce some of the crime that is happening in our schools.
Voorsitter, Minister, ek dink dit is baie meer dieperliggend as waar dispute tussen leerders op die skoolgronde tradisioneel met 'n vuisgeveg, of in die geval van jong meisies, deurmekaar in die hare te vlieg, besleg is. Dit is 'n aaklige nuwe tendens om van gevaarlike wapens - messe of selfs vuurwapens, gebruik te maak om verskille te besleg.
Ons het dit gesien in die dood van verskeie leerlinge die afgelope ruk. Wat kan u as Minister van Veiligheid en Sekuriteit vandag s om die vrese in ouerharte te besweer dat ons kinders nou ook nie eens meer op die skoolgronde veilig is nie, asseblief? (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Mr R J KING: Chairperson, Minister, I think it is much more deep-rooted than playground disputes between learners being settled with traditional fisticuffs or, in the case of young girls, with catfights. It is a dreadful new tendency to settle differences through the use of dangerous weapons - knives or even guns. Recently we have seen this resulting in the deaths of various learners. Please, what can you, as Minister of Safety and Security, say today that will allay the fears in the hearts of parents that our children are now not even safe at school?]
Thank you, hon member. Indeed, what you say is true. These are some of the things that do happen. The school environment is a microcosm of our life in South Africa and the reason we have a situation where this kind of criminal behaviour happens in our schools has to do with the broader society and the things that happen within this broader society. Again my appeal is that, indeed, the law- enforcement agencies will do their work but it would be even better if we were able to mobilise the communities.
Parents who have children in these various schools should work together with the law-enforcement agencies in order for us to at least, have an early-warning signal. The early-warning signal will be of two kinds. Firstly, some of those children, as I have indicated in my initial response, will tell us if there are problems in their homes. They will tell us about problems in the environments where they live and in the schools where they are, when they have confidence that their parents are participating in a programme like the Safer Schools Programme.
I would like to make a call to the members that we should all be preaching the same thing over and over again and involve our people right through the country in measures that are designed to reduce the levels of crime in South Africa because it is only when we have that kind of response which will be a national response to the scourge of crime that, in the end, we will succeed.
Application by a certain person to attend MK Veterans Association conference at Luthuli House
359. Mr J Selfe (DA) asked the Minister of Correctional Services:
(1) Whether a certain person (name furnished) applied for permission to attend the recent MK Veterans Association three-day national conference held at Luthuli House; if not, why not; if so,
(2) whether any conditions were attached to the said person leaving the Cape Town Magisterial District in this regard; if not, why not; if so, what conditions;
(3) whether the said person was required to report to anyone; if not, why not; if so, to whom;
(4) whether the said person did indeed report to the relevant person; if not, why not; (5) whether any other parolees attended this conference; if so, who are they? NO2354E
Chairperson, the response to the first part of the question is yes. A certain person recently applied to attend the recent MK Veterans Association's three-day national conference which was held at Luthuli House. Secondly, yes, his application was approved on condition that he reports back to the head of community corrections in Cape Town on an agreed date.
The response to the third part of the question is no. He was invited to attend the MK Veterans Association conference which was in Johannesburg. The fourth part of the question is not applicable and with regard to the fifth part, I am not aware of any other parolees attending this conference. Thank you.
Chairperson, obviously this question refers once again to Mr Tony Yengeni. I have noted your responses, Minister. While it is an accepted fact that parolees who travel outside the magisterial district to which they are confined will have some restrictive conditions including the need to report to designated officials, I see you have said no to whether the said person was required to report to anyone. I don't know why he wasn't required to report to anyone.
However, will the hon Minister be willing to furnish evidence of compliance on the part of the affected parolee concerning this matter? Will he do so to Parliament through the Portfolio Committee on Correctional Services? [Interjections.]
Chairperson, as I said in one of the responses, after approval there was a condition that he reports back to the head of community corrections in Cape Town. I have said that, hon Shah. In terms of compliance, all parolees have to comply with their regulations. If they don't, a report will be furnished to the Minister and only he has the power to say: Within 72 hours, haul that parolee back to prison. I haven't had to do that to anybody at the present moment.
Key results of study of prevalence of HIV and AIDS, and steps taken to incorporate them into comprehensive HIV and AIDS programmes and services
350. Ms W Ngwenya (ANC) asked the Minister of Correctional Services:
(1) Whether the HIV and AIDS prevalence study has been completed; if not, why not; if so,
(2) whether the results are available; if not, (a) why not and (b) when will they be available; if so, what are the key results of the study; 3) what steps have been taken to incorporate the results of the study to ensure improved access to comprehensive HIV and AIDS programmes and services within his department?