Madam Deputy Speaker, I wish to state first that I've not made a statement that "the amount of research undertaken by the universities constitutes the primary indicator for university funding". It is important that it is noted that the current funding framework distributes funding in particular proportions, which I will not mention here for the sake of time. I will leave the framework for the hon James to see the figures as to how we distribute funding.
Nevertheless, the most important thing I need to say is that no review has been finally decided on yet, although I am considering the possibility of appointing a review of the funding framework during the course of next year. Although the current funding formula has worked reasonably well, it has come under criticism as a result of certain weaknesses which I would like to see corrected. The main weakness of the formula is that it applies to all institutions in a "one-size-fits-all" manner. The former Department of Education has long been committed to a differentiated higher education sector. I, in common with most higher education experts in this country and abroad, agree with this vision. We have different needs as a country, and no institution can meet all of them. Currently we have a formula which applies equally to traditional universities, universities of technology and comprehensive universities. In addition, it applies to both research-rich institutions with a greater number of postgraduate students and those whose research capacity is smaller.
There is currently no consideration to increase or decrease funding of specific categories of university subsidy. The Department is certainly also not planning to reduce research or other funding to any specific university. Institutions will continue to operate on the basis of the current funding formula until it is changed. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]
Chairperson, does the hon Minister not recall from his university days that universities are always about research and teaching, and that this therefore is a matter of emphasis? Therefore, any comment that more attention should be paid to teaching institutions - as reflected in the funding formula - requires a recalibration of that formula as a consequence of a strategic vision and plan. My question is: What is the plan? Will you present the nation with a plan for change in the higher education sector, following which a new formula would result? Thank you. [Applause.]
Chairperson, I agree that universities are about research, but they are not only about research. Even the type of research that universities are taking at the moment - which is one witness in the formula - there is more recognition, for instance, for articles of research published in scientific journals. Yet, there is a lot of research, for instance, that is being done to support communities - for local development, etc - which does not equally get the kind of support and attention. For a developing country like ours, we need excellence in all forms of research that has been done by universities traditionally. But we also need to recognise that there is a new form of research. Some of those researches conducted do not reach any scientific journal, but they are making concrete changes in the lives of ordinary people on the ground. [Applause.]
Chairperson, I hear the Minister is saying that the research funding formula will not change. But for historical reasons, universities of technology are unable to produce the required research outputs. As such, they are forever lagging behind as compared to traditional universities. Does the Minister have any plans to fast-track research capacity development at universities of technology specifically? Thank you. [Applause.]
Chairperson, just to correct the hon member, I did not say that the research funding will not change. I said that in the light of representations that have been made to me, as well as the anomalies that I was talking about, I am considering appointing a body to look into the funding of universities, including the funding of research. Obviously, we have three categories. We have what we call traditional universities, comprehensive universities and universities of technology. So, when we are looking at supporting research at universities, we must also look into supporting all the universities in so far as research is concerned. This will be done in a manner that is aimed at strengthening those institutions that have developed particular specialities, especially in the case of universities of technology and their importance in skills development for our country. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]
Hon Minister, we accept the fact that different universities have different research capacities. We also know that there were deliberate efforts in the past to raise research capacities in some universities, especially in the so-called white universities. If you can go to previously disadvantaged universities you will find that the research capacity leaves much to be desired. My question is: Are there deliberate efforts from your part, hon Minister, to raise research capacities in universities which lack such? Thank you.
Chairperson, the department, for an example, has already been given earmarked funds over the past five years for historically disadvantaged institutions, especially rural universities, to give them support in specific areas - infrastructure, as well as research. Indeed if we are to transform the higher education landscape, we have to continue to have a particular focus to strengthen the research capacities of these universities in line with the mandates that they will be required to carry out, given their regional location or their particular speciality. For instance, one thing we are considering which will interest you, Mr Mpontshane, is that we would like to strengthen the research capacity of the University of Zululand in African languages.
INyuvesi yasoNgoye iyona yodwa ekhiqize isichazimazwi sesiZulu. Sifuna ukusekela futhi siqinise lokho ngoba ingeyokuqala yalolu hlobo lapha kuleli lizwe. Ngakho-ke ngiyethemba ukuthi kuzokujabulisa loko ukuthi nalapha kamakhelwane khona okuhle esikucabangayo ngeNyuvesi. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[The University of Zululand is the only university that has published an isiZulu dictionary. We want to support and confirm that because it is the first of its kind in this country. So, I believe that you will be happy to hear that as neighbours there is something good that we are thinking for the university. [Applause.]]
Hon Minister, with South Africa about to host the fourth World Summit on Arts and Culture and thinking about research being the primary indicator for university funding, obviously this criteria may or may not be used to fund arts facilities where research may not be seen to be such an issue. How will this be looked at? Thank you.
Chairperson, I think I will come back and give an answer to this question at an appropriate time. We have, for instance, committed ourselves with the Minister of Science and Technology that we do need to come up with a comprehensive strategy on how to promote research in higher education institutions and in different areas like arts, including indigenous cultures and all that. But we will come back to this at an appropriate time because we want to look at this in a comprehensive manner, especially now that we have a government that is committed to more co-operation amongst departments and not departments operating in silos.
Medicines destroyed by public hospitals in Free State
54. Mr D A Kganare (Cope) asked the Minister of Health:
(1) Whether he has been informed of medicines that were destroyed by public hospitals in the Free State last month; if not, what is the position in this regard; if so, (a) why were these medicines destroyed and (b) what was the cost of these medicines;
(2) whether any action has been taken against any official in this regard; if not, why not; if so, what action? NO1143E
Chairperson, the department has been informed that there were expired medicines that were recently destroyed in the Free State province. According to the report from the province, there has been a backlog in the destruction of expired medicines for the past three years due to the contractor not having a qualified pharmacist for the certification of expired medicines. As a result, the Free State Department of Health had to intervene and use its own means to destroy the medicines concerned.
According to the province, the medicines are valued at about R10 million over a four-year period. It is the Minister's view that in the face of the general shortage of medicines and the disease burden faced by South Africans, we cannot afford to have medicines staying unused until they expire. This is one of the reasons why we have decided to prioritise the overhauling of the management and reinforcement of accountability at all levels of the department and its institutions.
If the hon member is suggesting that there was any negligence on the matter, the hon member is hereby informed that the director-general has since been instructed to fully investigate the matter and to report on any system failure or personal responsibility. Remedial action will be taken promptly should the investigation prove any negligence. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Chairperson, I am standing in for hon Kganare.
Thank you for your response, hon Deputy Minister. We are a little concerned about the slow pace of the department in terms of ensuring that this does not happen. Our expectation was that the director-general should have been suspended immediately if the Minister was satisfied with the information given to him. So, we expect prudent action, Deputy Minister. Thank you.
Hon member, there are some things that can be taken on trust but still need to be verified. I trust that you would raise matters out of concern for people, but I will need to verify the things you raised. Even if we had verified that something wrong was done, there would have to be due processes. So, I cannot understand why, on the basis of your question, you expected that we would have dismissed the director-general of the department. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Hon Deputy Minister, what are the challenges with regard to expired medicines in public facilities? Are they extreme in number, particularly the Free State? What can be done at a national level to improve the situation? Are the difficulties experienced in the Free State exclusive to the Free State or are they problems that manifest across the board? What are the details in this regard? Thank you.
Chairperson, I wouldn't use the word "extreme" in relation to this problem. Yes, I have already given the quantities for the Free State. We have found that there are pockets in the country where this problem has appeared. We have identified the general procurement and distribution system as a major challenge. This is not only on the part of the department, but it is the state in which medicines leave the sending factories and our capacity to actually verify that what leaves the factory is not close to its expiry date. These are the general issues of capacity that we will address in order to avoid the recurrence of what has been raised by the hon Kganare. Thank you very much.
Deputy Minister, the DA believes that the provision of quality health care to all South Africans must be one of our chief priorities. Sadly, this is not the case in the Free State. Earlier this year, the Free State Health department refused antiretroviral medication to new patients due to its dire financial predicament. In addition, the department halted all nonemergency surgeries as part of intense cost-cutting measures. Even as a Free State hospital turned away Aids patients in desperate need of medication, the provincial government was in the process of spending R49 million on the Mangaung African Cultural Festival. Does the Deputy Minister not agree that the continued inappropriate appointments of unqualified persons into key positions have led to this fundamental incompetence and meltdown of health care in the Free State? I thank you.
Chairperson, we are equally concerned about the quality of care and the safety of all persons who use our public health facilities. We have not found any link between what has happened in the Free State and the funding of the Mangaung festival.
The suggestion that people have been denied antiretroviral treatment is not true. Just last Friday, the National Health Council met to confirm that provinces had taken measures to reprioritise funding to ensure that we sustain funding for antiretrovirals. Thank you very much.
Hon Deputy Minister, I think you are misleading this House when you indicate that antiretroviral medication was not denied to patients in the Free State. They were denied. There was a budget constraint, and there was not enough money to treat newly diagnosed persons and put them on medication. Now, sir, you have indicated that this is a bad state of affairs and that the director-general is going to conduct an investigation. I would like to ask you what timeframe you have given for the investigation and whether the results of that will be brought to this House.
Chairperson, on a point of order: I don't think an hon member can refer to the Deputy Minister as having misled the House. That's a very serious statement to make, which requires investigation. I would ask the member to withdraw that reference.
Order! Hon members, please don't enter the fray. There's a point of order. "Misleading" has a particular understanding, obviously from wherever a person stands. However, if the member had said "deliberately misleading" that would have constituted a serious allegation. But she didn't say that. She only said "misleading". So, it then therefore depends on where you stand. For now, it's not really a ... [Applause.] ...
Order, hon members! You may continue, hon Deputy Minister.
I would nevertheless deny that I am deliberately or otherwise misleading this House, Chairperson.
Hon Kalyan, our information is that we had such a problem towards the end of last year. The Minister at the time, Minister Hogan, did go to the Free State to personally investigate the matter and verified that the report was true. She promptly went ahead to mobilise resources, financial and otherwise, to ensure that people were put back on treatment and that measures for sustaining the programme were put in place. If indeed the hon member is suggesting that there is a recurrence of the problem, we will be able to verify it by the end of this week, which is Friday, and we should be in a position to report to the House on our findings. Thank you very much.
Contingency measure to prevent large-scale repossession of houses
24. Ms B N Dambuza (ANC) asked the Minister of Human Settlements:
(1) Whether his department has engaged with the banking sector and home loan agencies to draw up contingency measures to prevent the large-scale repossession of houses due to the current economic recession and the consequent defaulting of bondholders on their payments; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details;
(2) (a) how many houses have been repossessed during the period 1 April 2009 up to the latest specified date for which information is available and (b) what is the total monetary value of houses repossessed during this period? NO1095E
Chairperson, I don't intend or contemplate deliberately misleading this House on anything.
The question is about whether we have made contact with the banking sector in view of the fact that South Africans right across the board are losing their homes through repossessions - ordinary poor people and of course many people that look like some of us around here.
Let me state at the outset that owing to the difficult economic period the country is going through, arising out of the international economic downturn which affects the country in so far as we have a local economic recession, this phenomenon of ordinary South African citizens losing not only their homes but various other possessions - their vehicles, the contents of their households, their ability to send their children to school and losing through many other ways - is an ongoing phenomenon which is associated with an economy that is not performing that well.
We all know that our country should have had, by the year 2000, an economic growth rate of 6%. That has not been achieved. In real terms, this means that we have a deficit. This is compounded by the international events I described as well as by the current recession.
We note with sadness, of course, that because many people are losing their possessions, something has to be done. In this case, we have interacted with a number of stakeholders associated with human settlements, primarily the beneficiaries, particularly the poorest of the poor. We have also interacted with construction companies and companies that supply materials. We are all aware that as a result of the inflationary climate in which we find ourselves, the cost of these construction materials has gone up significantly.
We will be interfacing in due course with the companies involved, both the manufacturers and suppliers of such materials, so that an intervention can be made. Directly, we are in touch with the ... [Interjections.]
Order! Hon Minister, your time has expired. I don't know whether you were told that you only have limited time.
I was not aware.
You were not told?
Yes.
Let me say, Chairperson, we are in touch with the banking sector. We have received communication and also sent communication to the CEO of banking, Cas Coovadia, and we will be sitting down with the banks so that we can discuss innovative and other ways of addressing this question. But we must state that although banks can make a difference, it should be very clear that South Africans should be very prudent in so far as how they manage their mortgages.
Thank you, hon Minister. You were given an extra one minute on that issue.
UMphathiswa ohloniphekileyo, ndiyabulela ngengcaciso yakho egabalala. [I thank you for your detailed explanation.]
Given the fact that there is quite significant information on house repossessions that have taken place and the arrears on current mortgages between April and July 2009, is the Minister convinced that the government's strategy, negotiated with Nedlac, the National Economic Development and Labour Council, and the Banking Association SA, Basa, will be sufficient to deal with large-scale repossessions which will, unfortunately, follow as a result of the global economic turndown that is also affecting South Africa? If not, what measures are in place to monitor the trends of Basa in adherence with the commitment made prior to the situation becoming critical and affecting the government's commitment of achieving a quality and better life for all?
Hon member, let me state that the measures you referred to in respect of Nedlac are not sufficient. They can never be sufficient because we are dealing here with a moving target, particularly as I indicated earlier about an economy that is not performing that well within the context of the recession. However, I indicated earlier that we would engage with them to have innovative and creative ways - other ways - of thinking, which I cannot table here alone before this House. This will be the product of further discussions with the banking sector about what they can do. But we must also be mindful that the banking sector in itself is entrusted with public money. What it does with those funds is constrained by constitutional obligations as well as regulatory mechanisms. We will engage with them. We will try to massage the situation with them, but also be mindful of the fact that they have obligations to protect the money in terms of the Banks Act.
Minister, from your answer here this afternoon, it is obvious that nothing has actually been done to come to the rescue of the many hundreds of thousands of homeowners whose homes have already been repossessed and those that are still under stress as far as their mortgages are concerned. The fact that you say you will be meeting with the Banking Association, I'm afraid, is too little too late for those people. This is because surely we are not asking for you to negotiate with them that their mortgages be written off. But the sort of thing that you could have done with them is, for example, asked them to extend 20-year mortgages to perhaps 30 years for people in distress and perhaps for there to even be some type of a freeze on their mortgage payments for six or twelve months.
You mentioned contractors and material suppliers. I'm afraid we are talking about people who are currently in homes already. So those negotiations are certainly not going to help the people that I think we asked you in this question to use your influence for and to assist them. So, what exactly are you going to be discussing with the Banking Association to assist those people who are currently in distress and are about to lose their homes? Thank you, Chair.
Chairperson, it is unfair to say to a Minister who has been in the post for three months ... [Interjections.] Yes, it is unfair. We are grappling here with a very serious problem that is confronting all of us. I have indicated that we will be getting in touch with the banking sector. You are also aware that I've been getting in touch with beneficiaries by and large as far as Diepsloot and the N2 here are concerned. Last week we were in the Eastern Cape - Buffalo City. We are even going to the hostels in Gauteng and KwaZulu-Natal to deal with this problem. We have standing meetings with the banking sector. We are not just meeting people on a one-on-one basis. You will be privy to those meetings.
Hon member, I invite you to come to those meetings as well, because they will be open at the end of the day, so that you can see what it is that they would like to table before us and what it is that we are going to be tabling in front of them. There are many schemes that you can put forward, but you must be ever mindful of the fact that you don't force the banks. You can't do that. You bring them on board. The Minister of Higher Education, under the banner of the Communist Party, spoke with the banks in the past and that is how we came to have Mzansi banking, which became an all-round success. [Applause.]
So, in this particular case, I cannot table here the contents or the agenda of the meeting we are going to hold with them. We will hold that meeting. We will hold them accountable to certain guidelines, measures and targets. But this must be a discussion of adults, of people who are all engaged in trying to find a common solution to the problem that is common to all of us here. [Applause.]
Mr Chairman, on a point of order, Sir: Is it appropriate for a Minister to use Question Time to pat another Minister on the back? [Laughter.]
Order! That is not a point of order, hon Ellis, you know that very well.
Chairperson, I may be a member of the Communist Party. He doesn't know.
Minister, considering that you have been in the post for three months, I will put this question differently. [Laughter.] Would you, Minister, consider also engaging municipalities and the companies that have been engaged by municipalities to run what we call "rental stock"? This is because economic difficulties are not only affecting those who have bonds because they qualified, but they are also hitting hard on those who cannot access bonds and those who can also not access RDP giveaways, who are therefore put into rental stock.
Companies that have been engaged by municipalities have a different view and mandate from your department in terms of providing shelter. They are making people pay exorbitant amounts of money. For example in Payneville, Brickfield and Kliptown in Gauteng, you get people paying about R1 700 a month for a unit the same size and quality of an RDP house. Would you consider engaging them to make sure that we don't evict people as government? Thanks.
Chair, on a point of order: I think that is a totally different question. It is not related to the main question. Could you give a ruling on that?
Which question is that?
Hon Minister, you may continue. I didn't get the point of order.
Chairperson, well, the point of order is actually correct because the question I've been asked is in respect of evictions by the banking sector. But I think it is a fair question, and demands a reply. It would be difficult for me to present my diary here. But, hon member, rest assured we have actually started having these discussions with various municipalities. I indicated that we have done this in Gauteng and in the Eastern Cape, as well as down here. We have also been in touch with the provincial government here. So, we will put forward proposals. We will engage people on innovative plans. This is a moving target. The economy isn't performing that well. I put this on the table too.
The solutions that we have to locate must be sustainable. They mustn't just be talk for the sake of having a meeting so that I come back and say, "Yes, we have engaged." This is a serious problem. Our people are having difficulties outside there. So we view this with the seriousness it deserves. It is not something for us to gain.
Chairperson, I will not ask a new question. If I may I would like to take the Minister back to the original question. The Minister did not have, I think, the opportunity to answer the second part of the question that deals with the number of houses that have been repossessed since 1 April 2007 and the monetary value involved. Could the Minister perhaps answer that part as well? Thank you.
Thank you for that question. It is quite a simple one. According to information that has been obtained from Basa, more than 3 900 houses have been repossessed. The total monetary value of those houses is almost half a billion rand. Commissioning of study regarding single-medium public schools and dual and/or parallel-medium schools
56. Dr C P Mulder (FF Plus) asked the Minister of Basic Education:
Whether she, with reference to her reply on 22 July 2009 to question 86 and her reply on 3 August 2009 to question 451, will order an independent scientific investigation in order to establish exact figures regarding the number of (a) single-medium public schools for each of the 10 indigenous languages as well as (b) dual and/or parallel-medium schools where English is one of the mediums of instruction; if not, (i) why not and (ii) how, in light of the absence of such data, will her department determine which schools conform to the National Language Policy; if so, when?