Chair, I have a very simple answer, because I think the FF Plus has really been insistent on this question. I agree, hon Mulder, that I will seriously consider commissioning a study involving all key stakeholders in education. Based on this commitment I guess all the other questions fall by the wayside.
The reason why I say "consider" is that we still have to find the budget and the people to perform the work. So, we will keep you informed as soon as we find money in our budget to commission the study.
Chairperson, I would like to thank the hon Minister for her answer. Obviously if the Minister agrees to what we are basically suggesting, then I think it is very positive. We welcome this in the light of what the Minister says - to make this kind of study possible to see exactly where we are heading. I must remind the House about what the hon President said last week when he answered supplementary questions regarding the relevance of this kind of mother tongue education and its importance in terms of our schooling.
Could I then ask the Minister, in terms of her reply, if she could perhaps give some indication of a timeframe because if it is a long drawn-out process that takes very long, it is not going to assist us? At the moment we're in September already and next year children have to go to school again. The sooner, we believe, it can be resolved, the better in the interest of all of us and all the languages. Is it possible to give us some timeframe or indication of what the Minister may have in mind? Thank you, Chairperson.
Chair, the reason why I was not able to commit myself to say I will commission it is that I have requested the director-general to see if we can identify the resources. So, I should get back to you quite soon. But I am not sure if we will be able to do anything before the beginning of 2010. The latest we will be able to commission this is when we have reprioritised the 2010 budget, which means we can only introduce this in 2011.
However, if there are other urgent issues that the FF Plus wants us to attend to, we will do that in the interim. In terms of the study, I am not in a position to say that we will indeed start it in September so that we can finish in October to enable us to implement it in January. I am unable to do that. That is why I deliberately said that we will consider commissioning this because I do not have any concrete resources, programmes or even any commitment to say that indeed I will start on this. We still have to identify resources.
What I can promise is that it will not drag on forever beyond 2010. By 2010 we will definitely commission the study in readiness for 2011 if we are not able to do it between now and 2010.
Hon Minister, I will pose my question in Afrikaans.
Agb Minister, u voorganger het by verskeie geleenthede na die belangrikheid van moedertaalonderrig verwys en President Zuma het so onlangs as verlede week in die Huis saamgestem dat moerdertaalonderrig belangrik is vir die verbetering van die kwaliteit van onderrig in skole. Dit word ondersteun deur die navorsingsbevindings dat moedertaalonderrig effektiewe leer en akademiese prestasie van leerders beduidend bevorder, die aanleer van 'n nuwe moedertaal vergemaklik, die gevoel van eiewaarde by die sprekers van die verskillende tale verhoog, en die ontwikkeling van inheemse tale self bevorder.
In die lig hiervan en ook van wat so pas ges is, dat daar dalk ander dringende sake is wat onder u aandag gebring moet word, wil ek vir u vra, agb Minister, of daar ten opsigte van die implementering van moedertaalonderrig - voordat ons nog by 'n opname kom - spesifieke planne en aksies bestaan; nie net 'n beleid nie, maar planne en askies vir die implementering en bevordering van moedertaalonderrig? So ja, wat die resultate is, en of daar al enige vordering in di verband gemaak is? Dankie. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Hon Minister, your predecessor referred to the importance of mother tongue instruction on various occasions, and only last week President Zuma agreed in this House that mother tongue instruction is important for improving the quality of education in schools. This is supported by research findings that indicate that mother tongue instruction significantly promotes effective learning and academic achievement of learners, facilitates the learning of a new mother tongue, increases the self-esteem of the speakers of the different languages, and promotes the development of the indigenous languages itself. In light of this as well as what has just been said, namely that there might be other important matters that must be brought to your attention, I want to ask you, hon Minister, with regard to the implementation of mother tongue instruction, whether - before we turn to a survey - specific plans and actions are in place; not a policy, but plans and actions for the implementation and promotion of mother tongue instruction? If so, what are the results, and whether any progress has been made in this regard? Thank you.]
Chair, I fully agree with the statement that was made by the member with regard to the importance of mother tongue instruction in education. We have lots of evidence in our education system to confirm that indeed mother tongue instruction - especially in the foundation phase - is quite crucial to the academic performance of our learners. We are committed as a department; you will recall that the language policy in Education advocates for that.
Some of the constraints, especially with African languages, relate to the question of the availability of resources and to the availability of personnel to teach in these languages. It however also relates to the resources of the department - whether it allows us to implement the policy in its entirety with regard to other logistics. For instance, in the case of Afrikaans-speaking schools, one might use half the capacity that is available because one wants a single medium in school and then compromise other financial considerations. One has to balance the resource allocations and efficiencies with the language policy.
In terms of the statement, we are in full agreement. I don't think there's a debate on that matter. I think it is very important for the department to gradually implement its policy on languages. The long and short of it is that the policy has not been fully implemented. It is important to ensure that we implement the policy.
In areas where we find resistance in terms of language of instruction, especially in the African communities, it is very important - and I have mentioned this to the officials - that we educate our people about the academic value of teaching in African languages for all the reasons we have given. I think because of other perceptions in our communities that English enables people to access the economy and also because of all these other myths that they believe about the value of English, there is a need for us to de-school our people and make sure that they appreciate and understand the value of mother tongue instruction and the fact that English is not necessarily the key to the world. English is just another language like other languages. People study in Portuguese and are still able to travel all over the world. This is a process we have to go through. We have started with the work and we will give you more information as and when you ask for it. We agree with your sentiments.
Chairperson and the House, the National Language Policy developed by the ANC government through the department has ensured that all languages are accommodated and that children have the right to be instructed in their mother tongue and that we cannot preserve or promote certain languages like it used to happen in the past. May I therefore enquire from the Minister whether the independent scientific investigation, as requested by Dr Mulder, will bring out any radical changes to the situation where parent communities themselves have the right to determine the language policy in their schools through their own school governing bodies, SGBs? If you have accurate figures or data that is being requested to answer this question, will this situation ever change?
Chairperson, for me the study is very important for the reasons I have mentioned before. It is also important to educate other people who do not understand and value the importance of mother tongue instruction. At that level it is very important.
My personal view on the matter from past experience is that learners who performed well in our education system were learners who had the advantage of being taught in their mother tongue. So, it is very important to acknowledge that Afrikaans-speaking children were performing exceptionally well, English-speaking children were performing very well and that African children had to suffer alone. So, it very important that we get the statistics and educate our people about the value of mother tongue instruction.
I think it will radicalise our education system if we implement these policies. It is not a question of preserving Afrikaans or not. For me it is also to confirm that it is important to ensure that people appreciate the value of mother tongue instruction. We would not want, for instance, to destroy that which works during my term. It works to have people receive instruction in their languages. If the study will help us to maintain a situation where Afrikaans-speaking children are taught in Afrikaans, one does not want to break that which works. It works, so let us strengthen it.
I don't have any problems with whether or not we preserve Afrikaans, but I have an interest in ensuring that all children are given an opportunity to learn maximally in a language that enables them to reach their full potential. That is what the issue is to me; it is not about Afrikaans. It is about what is important to our children for them to acquire knowledge in the best language to enable them to reach their full potential, and that would be their mother tongue.
Plans for volunteer teachers teaching ABET for more than five years
25. Ms A C Mashishi (ANC) asked the Minister of Basic Education: What is the plan of her department for volunteer teachers who have been teaching adult basic education and training (ABET) for more than five years? NO1097E
Chairperson, with regard to the question relating to volunteers in the Adult Basic Education and Training, Abet, programme, we don't have volunteers in our Abet programme as it stands now. We have no volunteers in public education learning centres, which are departmental institutions.
Provinces employ educators either part-time or full-time. So, there are no issues about volunteers there. We have volunteers in our mass literacy programme - I think the member wanted to relate to this. Currently, we are utilising about 35 000 volunteers who participate in a campaign for literacy education. This is a short-term programme. These people are formally unemployed, and we give them stipends from the campaign to cover expenses which they incur. We are currently in discussions with the sector education and training authorities, Setas, in an attempt to ensure that our volunteers are accredited for the knowledge we are giving them through the campaign through recognition of learning. We wish for them to use this experience as portable knowledge which they can use in other areas.
All of the volunteers have passed Grade 12. These are young people who have the capacity, orientation and interest in education. We are already offering them scholarships to get into the profession. This also helps us in terms of recruitment. Some of these kids go there on a voluntary basis and then fall in love with the profession. We are assisting them to become qualified teachers.
The long and short version of the answer is that we don't have volunteers. So, there is no issue or question around stipends or other things. We don't have volunteers in the Abet programme but in the literacy programme.
Hon Minister, thank you. I heard you talk about the Kha ri Gude volunteers. In line with your response, are there other possible initiatives or plans to ensure that the experience already gained by the Kha ri Gude volunteers is not lost outside of the field of education? I heard you touch on this, but I need more clarity on that. Thank you.
Chairperson, as I said, currently there are two processes around these volunteers. One is around the Setas. We want the Setas to recognise the knowledge and the experience we are providing these volunteers when they volunteer in the programme, so that they are recognisable and therefore portable and usable in other areas. But for those learners who, as I said, show aptitude, attitude and orientation towards education, we are recruiting them and encouraging them to go into teacher training institutions and offer them bursaries. So, those who really have the passion for teaching will not be lost. But those who came in as volunteers because they wanted a stipend and are not necessarily interested in the profession, they obviously don't want to stay, and we also don't want them to stay.
Speaker, I would just like to indicate to the hon Minister that the correct term is Adult Education and Training, AET, and not Abet. I have checked this with the department.
One of the reasons why AET teachers are leaving is that they feel neglected and as if they are second class citizens within the education system. Does the department have a plan to keep AET teachers updated and fully briefed about developments within the formal system on a constant basis?
Chair, it is indeed a challenge that when most qualified young professionals don't find posts, they go into the adult literacy programme as a waiting station. When they find jobs or when posts appear in the schooling system, they then apply to be full-time teachers.
The reason we are not able to make them full-time teachers is that they work for four hours twice a week. The hours that they work in these programmes do not qualify them to be full-time teachers. That's one of the problems. As a result, this makes the sector very unstable. So, I'm aware of those problems. But because these are professionals who are waiting in there and who have an interest in the mainstream of schooling, we keep on updating them about changes in the education system and give them opportunities for training to ensure that when they apply to come into the education sector, their skills will be up to date with the changes that have been happening in other sectors.
This continues to be a challenge because people who go into this sector are people who are willing to work part-time. In a sense, it's not just people who are willing to work part-time, but these are people who are waiting for posts in the sector. This is what causes instability.
How do we keep them? I don't know. We were not able to do this even in provinces because the hours they work don't qualify them to be full-time employees. They are paid for the hours they work. Others are very happy with this. This allows them to do some work at home - in the case of housewives who are qualified teachers- and only do two hours of teaching a day. But, as I said, others don't go there because they wish to work part- time; they are waiting for other jobs. I hope this answers your question. We can't keep them, but we are training them.
Deputy Chairperson, we saw a lovely example of adult basic education just behind the Minister when she was still responding to the previous programme, when the hon Minister of Correctional Services was assisting the hon Minister of Human Settlements with the computer system on the desks. [Laughter.] We just want to know if there is a specific qualification necessary for this operation? [Laughter.]
On a more serious note, we accept that there is a sort of instability in this particular sector. Are we moving towards lifting the level of qualification to perhaps beyond matric? The Minister indicated that this is almost a waiting station. So, what can the department do to ease their way into becoming fully-fledged educators in the system? We understand that there is a huge challenge with literacy programmes. But what will be done to attend to the shortage of teachers in the broad system of education? Thank you. [Time expired.]
Chair, there is going to be great hope because the Abet section of the department is going to Higher Education. This is going to be linked up with skills. It will be a fully-fledged programme that will be better than what it is currently. There is great hope that within Higher Education, it will be a fully-fledged Abet programme. We will give it the whole stability that it requires. There is great hope in this regard. I am very optimistic that with the new Minister, it is going to work.
Kha Ri Gude [Let us learn] is a short-term campaign. It is a literacy programme. These are matriculants who are volunteers. They have been trained to use the manuals we have. There is no intention of making it a fulltime programme. Volunteers in this sector are the ones we are recruiting to train as teachers for the mainstream so that when the campaign is over, we will have recruited volunteers who fell in love with the profession. We are getting a number of those who are enjoying the work of teaching and are falling in love with the profession. We are recruiting them to go and train as educators. That, again, will create that stability.
Hon Minister, I want to ask the hon Minister if the department has actually done the long-awaited review that was going to be done on Abet. What proposals, apart from moving it to Higher Education, have come forward in terms of improving access to teachers and the delivery and quality of this important service in general? Thank you.
Chair, I'm embarrassed to say that I didn't hear the first part of the question. I'm sorry. I'm not being rude. I actually didn't hear the first part.
Order! I see that the hon Minister of Higher Education is pointing at hon Ellis. [Interjections.] Well, I know; I heard you. But it was a positive comment, hon Ellis, you don't have to worry.
You can repeat your question, hon Dudley.
Thank you.
Hon Minister, I just wanted to ask if the department had done the long- awaited review of Abet in general, and what proposals, apart from moving it to Higher Education, had come out in terms of accessing teachers and delivering quality in general?
Hon member, I can really assure you that this is a very exciting programme because we are having discussions with Higher Education. This is an extremely exciting programme that Higher Education is working on in terms of stabilising the sector and opening access.
We, as Basic Education, are even discussing with them the possibility to use some of the Abet centres or even Further Education and Training, FET, colleges to train some of the teachers as foundation teachers. I think with time, when we are ready, we should be able to unveil a better plan in strengthening the Abet sector. But from our discussions, this promises to be an extremely exciting and very stable programme, which is a much better improvement to what we currently have in the system.
Thank you, hon Minister. What the hon Ellis was saying is: "Why are you answering questions so well?" He is so impressed with you. [Interjections.] Oh, did he qualify it? Money owed by municipalities to water boards and impact of recent tariffs on capital expansion plans of boards
35. Mr G R Morgan (DA) asked the Minister of Water and Environmental Affairs:
(1) (a) How much money is owed by municipalities to water boards as at the latest specified date for which information is available and (b) what efforts are being made by her department to assist the boards in obtaining payment from the municipalities;
2) whether the most recent tariffs she approved for individual water boards will impact on the capital expansion plans of any board; if not, what is the position in this regard; if so, what are the relevant detail