Chairperson, with regard to the first part of the question, the money owed by municipalities to water boards as at 31 July 2009 is as follows: the current debt is R630 290 676 million and the arrears are R525 632 866 million. This means that the outstanding balance is R1 155 923 542 billion.
Secondly, the department facilitates meetings between water boards and the National Treasury. The latter has the mandate to mediate between water boards and relevant municipalities for payment in terms of section 44 of the Municipal Finance Management Act of 2003.
The department, with the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, the National Treasury and Salga, formed a task team last year, 2008, which visited all regions to engage water boards and municipalities on bulk water agreements and non-payment issues. The outcome varied from region to region. In some regions, water boards and municipalities were talking to each other for the first time, which resulted in more regular payments to water boards.
There were also three disputes. The first was between the Umgeni Water and Msunduzi Municipality. One of the recommendations made on this dispute was that Umgeni must pay back the profit that was generated from the management of Darvill works.
The second dispute was between Bloem Waters and Ukhahlamba District Municipality. It was also based on non-payment of invoices for operation and maintenance services, including outstanding project claims.
The last dispute was between Tshwane Municipality and Moretele Municipality. The dispute involved R38 million which was owed by Moretele Municipality to Tshwane Municipality. Tshwane Municipality ultimately agreed to cancel all the interest charged from the total debt, and Moretele Municipality committed to pay R8 million per month to settle the debt.
No impact is envisaged on the capital expansion plans of any water board. Capital projects are financed by a combination of loan funding and internal cash resources, which are accumulated over the years due to operating surpluses and in most cases from underexpenditure on capital projects.
At the end of June 2008, water boards had accumulated approximately R1,9 billion in their cash reserves. In the light of the strong balance sheets, the tariff proposed by the former Minister had no real negative impact on water boards' ability to spend and borrow for capital development.
Deputy Minister, certainly over a billion rand owed to water boards is an extraordinary high amount of money. Water boards find themselves in a difficult situation because on the one hand many municipalities struggle to pay and on the other hand, as you've said, the Minister sets the tariffs.
You said today that you didn't expect the tariffs to have any particular impact on capital expansion and infrastructure maintenance. But if you look at particular water boards, that situation may be very different. For instance, Namaqua has a negative net profit margin of 176% and Botshelo Water has a debt ratio of 217%.
What was interesting is that in the portfolio committee meetings, many boards said that the tariffs would not allow them to do what they wanted with the capital expansion plan. Is there an alternative funding stream that can be investigated for water boards? I know that the aim is to try and make them stand-alone institutions. But is there a possibility that a part of the municipal income grant can be ring-fenced and used to build infrastructure as well?
Hon member, could you please repeat your last words? I couldn't hear because the Chairperson was talking to you.
Is there a possibility that a portion of the municipal income grant, at least in certain water boards, can get ring-fenced so that water boards can also build infrastructure that would otherwise have been built by municipalities?
I am sure we can investigate that and see if it is possible. We will see what to do. If it is possible, we will do it. There are many ways in which we can try to resolve the problem because it is not one person's problem. If it works, we'll implement it.
Deputy Minister, the setting of water tariffs also had to factor in the cost to the end user. Was the fact that poverty levels in South Africa are quite high taken into account when the tariffs were set?
Yes, we do know that there are people who can't afford. That is why our indigent people get certain liters of water free of charge. But it is quite difficult because some of the things have to be paid for and infrastructure has to be built. We will investigate ways to assist those who can't afford.
Deputy Minister, my question is not linked to the water boards but to the municipalities on the monies they owe them. What is the situation regarding the proposed introduction of household meters in high density areas? We know there was some controversy around these meters which automatically operate after free water is used up, as in a situation where there are large numbers of people in a household - sometimes as many as 21. Their problems are not addressed by this situation. I am wondering if you are prepared to comment on that.
I cannot comment on that at the moment because we still have to investigate. I need more information.
Deputy Minister, I find the fact that we have developed debts of a billion rand from municipalities owing to water boards a completely unsustainable situation. It is in fact a contravention of the Municipal Finance Management Act, which states that they should be paying those debts within 30 days. In your investigations, have you found out the reasons why particular municipalities have been unable to pay water boards, and have you put in place mechanisms to ensure that those water boards will be paid timeously in the future?
The second question on tariffs relates to comments that have already been made. We've heard at public hearings that many water boards can't expand their capital plans as they want to because the tariffs are set too low. We obviously have to put in greater water extensions in South Africa to make sure that we get water to more people, and we cannot do that under the current finance system. Are there any plans to change this so that we can expand water to everyone that needs it in South Africa? Thank you.
Hon member, the reason why some of these municipalities have these debts is because of certain institutions within those municipalities. For example, we have government institutions, hospitals and schools which might not be paying. Therefore, municipalities get into debt. That is what contributes to municipalities' debts.
At times this happens because of the way municipalities manage their bills. This contributes to debts. The problem is a collection of many things like not managing invoices well, etc.
Hon member, what was your second question?
It is about funding mechanisms for the capital expansion plans that are solely needed in the water sector, and the fact that the tariffs are set too low for those plans to go ahead. Are we looking at any other funding mechanisms to be able to do that? Thank you.
We would like to have more funding, but it is not possible at the moment. However, we will explore other ways of assisting.
I am sure you know that there is a huge problem with regard to getting water to people, because rivers are far from them. It becomes very expensive to get water to the people. It is worse now with drought and climate change. That is why we are exploring water harvesting and other means of getting water. We have explored boreholes, but the water is so salty and it cannot be used. So, we are still exploring. Let us all join hands and come up with bright ideas. Thank you.
Maths and literacy skills of first-year university students 52. Rev K R J Meshoe (ACDP) asked the Minister of Higher Education and Training:
(a) What is the percentage of first-year university students who are well-equipped with maths and literacy skills and (b) how does that percentage compare with those of other countries or international trends? NO1136E
Chairperson, maybe this question is written in the language of the Old Testament because I don't know why it has been asked to me. I think it should have been asked to my colleague in Basic Education. But I suppose you all have to report to your constituencies that you've asked all the Ministers questions.
In 2008, the total number of students who passed with 50% or more, which is the minimum requirement for eligibility for degree studies in higher education and have done maths and/or maths literacy in the National Senior Certificate since its introduction in 2008, was 62 388 for maths and 100 186 for maths literacy.
All first-year university students would have passed either Maths or Maths Literacy at a level in the National Senior Certificate in terms of the aggregates that would have allowed them to enter university. Nevertheless, this does not mean that we would not like to see the deepening of quality in numeracy from the early years of schooling, as my colleague the Minister of Basic Education indicated earlier. Poor performance in numeracy is a challenge that is being addressed across the education system.
It must be noted that because of our constitutional commitment to education as a basic right, South Africa has high levels of enrolment in secondary education in contrast to many countries for which access to secondary education is a privilege reserved for a successful minority. Thus, despite some problems with retention in secondary schools, the levels of completion from secondary schools in South Africa are high relative to other economically comparative countries. Thank you.
Hon Minister, I apologise for Rev Meshoe, who was unable to be here today. What assistance is available at present in universities for students needing additional assistance regarding Maths and literacy skills to give them that extra bit of help as they begin their new varsity career? Thank you.
Chairperson, in the current financial year, for instance, the department has allocated R146 million geared towards various forms of academic support to students in different fields, which would also include strengthening and supporting students to enable them to perform better at university.
Ndvuna Ndzimande, ngitsandza kwati kwekutsi ... [Minister Nzimande, I would like to know ...]
... how you ensure and promote these certain subjects in the curriculum. What is important is that we can strengthen this, but what about promoting these subjects. One can see that most of the students are reluctant to study Maths and Science. What are the plans that you have to promote these subjects in the curriculum?
UNGQONGQOSHE WEMFUNDO EPHAKEME NOKUQEQESHA: Kunemali evele ikhona, lungu elihloniphekile enikezwa nguhulumeni lo wethu ukwenza isiqiniseko sokuthi abafundi ikakhulukazi abaqhamuka ezindaweni ezihluphekayo, nabafundi abamnyama bayalekelelwa ukuthi bangene kulemikhakha yezifundo lezi zezibalo nokuthi bakwazi futhi ukuthi bathole usizo.
Sizoyiqinisa lento njengoba-ke imfundo uMongameli eyibeke njengenye yezinto eziphambili kulelizwe lethu. Sizoziqinisa izindlela zokuthi abafundi ikakhululkazi abamnyama bakwazi ukuthi bangene. Kodwa bangagcini ngokungena nje kulezifundo kodwa futhi bakwazi ukuphumelela ukuze bangachithi isikhathi esiningi emaNyuvesi kodwa sizame ukubalekelela ukuthi baqede ngesikhathi .Ngithemba ukuthi kuyakuphendula lokho engikushoyo. Ngiyabonga. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)
[The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: There are funds that are already available, hon member, which are issued by this government of ours to ensure that learners who come from impoverished areas, especially black learners, are assisted in taking subjects like maths and science, and that they receive assistance.
We are going to intensify this effort, as the President has placed education as one of the top priorities in this country. And we will also intensify the ways in which black learners will be able to do these subjects. They must not only take these subjects, but also be able to pass them so that they won't spend too much time at the universities and we must also assist them to finish on time. I hope what I said answers your question. Thank you.]
Chair, I just want to ask the hon Minister, having been in office for three months and thinking about these issues for 10 years between his previous time in Parliament and now, what he's doing to accelerate teacher training in Maths and Science, because his figures indicate the extraordinary urgency of maximising the quality of our Mathematics and Science teachers. Therefore, I would appreciate it if he would share with us what his plans are and how they are proceeding.
Hon James, it feels like three years already! The matter of teacher education and training has been a subject of a recent teacher education summit where agreements were reached about how to accelerate teacher education, including in these specialised subjects as well as other subjects such as African languages, if we are going to succeed in terms of teaching in the foundation phase.
This area is one of the areas about which we are currently in discussion with the Minister of Basic Education because it straddles both departments in terms of what would be the best way of responding to the need, about which you are right, for teacher training and education in these particular areas.
One of the things we are looking at is something the Minister of Basic Education has mentioned in answering another question, namely how, for instance, FETs could be used for certain things. But we are also looking at the possibility of working towards teacher training institutes - that's another option - and perhaps also how universities themselves need to increase and multiply their delivery sites for teacher education.
So, this is one matter that is a priority for both the Department of Higher Education and Training and the Department of Basic Education. Once we have come up with concrete proposals we'll make sure that we come and share them with members so that we can get feedback.
Minister, speaking of skills and the use of Maths and Science, it is obvious that education must be relevant. In order for education to be relevant there must be targeted intervention. Is there a strategic conversation or a concerted effort between the Minister and the private sector to produce specific skills required? For example, does the Nelson Mandela Metropolitan University produce skills necessary and needed by Volkswagen South Africa in Uitenhage, or could there be a brewing institute that would produce skills needed by SAB-Miller, to mention only two of many relevant examples? Thank you.
Chairperson, I think the question is a bit remote from the original question. [Laughter.]
UwuVukuza ngempela isibongo ngoba uvukuza umbuzo ongawubuzanga. [Uhleko.] [Your surname is really Vukuza because you scrape for a question which you never asked. [Laughter.]]
All I want to say is that I had two meetings already with Business Unity of South Africa. You would be surprised, Mr Ellis, to hear that I have met twice with real big business, not small fry. [Laughter.]
One of the things we agreed we have to do - I have raised this very sharply with business - is that we need a bigger contribution from them in terms of, amongst other things, places for learnerships; the training of the placement for apprentices. I got a very positive reply that they are actually more than willing to work with my department to build on the work that they've been doing in the past, which is not new, and to accelerate it, given the urgency of a skills revolution in this country.
Angeke ngazi-ke ntombi lapho usho khona ngalena ukuthi kwenzakalani. Mhlawumbe uyongithatha ngenye imini sihambe, siyobona lapho ukuthi kwenziwani laphaya eMpumalanga Koloni. Ngiyabonga kakhulu. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[I would not be in a position, madam, to know what is happening on the other side that you are referring to. Maybe you will go with me one day to see what is happening in the Eastern Cape. Thank you.]
Mr Chairman, if I may simply say to the hon Minister of Higher Education and Training that, yes, I was surprised that he'd had certain meetings. But at the same time I want to say that everything he does surprises me. [Laughter.]
Terms of reference for review committee on National Student Financial Aid Scheme and Higher Education South Africa and details on students receiving support
26. Mr M L Fransman (ANC) asked the Minister of Higher Education and Training: (1) (a) What were the terms of reference for the Review Committee on the National Student Financial Aid Scheme (NSFAS) and Higher Education South Africa (HESA) in July 2009, (b) when is the report due, (c) at what stage will they engage the parliamentary committee, (d) what number of students received support from the NSFAS during the period 1 April 2007 up to the latest specified date for which information is available and (e) what number of these students have dropped out in these years;
(2) whether he has found that students from disadvantaged communities are sufficiently supported; if not, what is the position in this regard; if so, what are the relevant details of his findings? NO1098E
Chairperson, this is a question about the Terms of Reference of the Review Committee on the National Student Financial Aid Scheme, NSFAS. The Minister of Higher Education and Training established a ministerial committee for the review of NSFAS on 10 June 2009 to review the efficacy of the scheme. The full terms of reference are contained in Government Gazette No 32317. The overall purpose of the review is to assess the strength and shortcomings of the current scheme and advise on the short- medium- and long-term needs for student financial aid and make recommendations in this regard.
Some of the scope that we expect the review to cover would include conducting a needs analysis of students who will require financial aid in the short, medium and long terms, taking into account the government's commitment to providing free undergraduate education to students from poor families who would otherwise not be able to pursue further or higher education.
We've asked this committee to also assess the nature and extent of former and current students blacklisted by NSFAS and universities and recommend appropriate action to be taken to deal with the problem. The report is due within six months from the day that the committee commences its work at the end of June 2009, and it is envisaged that the report will be submitted to the Minister early in December 2009.
The committee is currently engaging with different stakeholders. As this is a preliminary investigative phase, a meeting with the portfolio committee will be scheduled at a later date. The number of students that were supported in 2006 was 107 586; in 2007 it was 113 616; and in 2008 it was approximately 120 000 as the data for this year is being finalised.
The information on the number of students that have graduated or dropped out in each of these years is not readily available as tracer studies are still to be completed. The amount that has been allocated by the department to NSFAS has grown from R500 million in 2002, to R2,71 billion in 2011-12, including the Fundza Lushaka teacher bursaries and FET college bursaries.
The number of students that have been assisted in higher education institutions since 2002 has grown from 86 147 to approximately 120 000 in 2008. The demand on the scheme, however, continues to exceed amounts allocated, and this, in part, was the reason for the review. Thank you.
Hon Chairperson, as a member and chairperson of the committee, I want to welcome the Minister 's intervention. Not so long ago students in fact raised this matter, both with the portfolio committee and also during the elections period. It's quite clear, Minister, that the review process is starting to address the issue of blacklisting and top- slicing and to deal with the question of institutional problems that we have seen.
I note from your response that there's not enough information on actual tracking of both graduates and dropouts. In the country we roughly have a 40% dropout rate. What process will the Minister embark upon to ensure that we don't just get a survey on the number of dropouts, but that we get qualitative information on individual students?
Chair, I thank hon Fransman for the question. As a matter of fact, we do have this information for previous periods. What we are saying here is that because we have not actually finished this process of tracking and tracing, we are unable to provide this information now. However, it is information that should be available at an appropriate time. This is because we do, as a department, follow closely what happens to students at universities in general and especially those that are supported by NSFAS. The system itself is able to tell us how those students are doing and about the issue of dropouts, etc.
Chair, is there any compelling reason why the hon Minister is not acting with a sense of urgency on this question and, after consultation with the main stakeholders, does not push the current threshold of R120 000 in annual income of parents to 160 000 per year so that more working class families can benefit from student financial aid? Why are we bearing witness to the slow march of bureaucracy here? [Applause.]
Before you get excited about the slow march of bureaucracy, ... [Interjections.] Hon Ellis, I'm not allowed to point a finger at you in the House. It's not about that. In fact, if you look at it, hon James, I think we have to balance between speed and thoroughness. We don't want to rush this process only to find that we missed a lot of dimensions.
Again, if you look at the terms of reference of the review committee, each one of them is quite involved. We want as much information as possible. But, if you look at the information we want over a period of six months, it is not too long a period. So, we have to strike a balance between the two. We, ourselves, are aware of the urgency with which we have to address these matters.
Whether we raise the limit of income of parents of students who qualify, that will come with the review itself.
Just to end off, there are quite a number of other issues that will need to be addressed. For instance, do you provide as many students as possible with part loans or part bursaries, or do you provide fewer students with complete loans or bursaries so that you don't have a problem where some students have accommodation and tuition, but don't have money for food?
So, I think that given the scale of the task and the urgency, six months balances both. I think we are moving at the necessary speed, but without undue haste in a manner that would compromise what we want to achieve. [Applause.]
Hon Minister, we must recognise that NSFAS has assisted thousands of students nationally, and you quoted the figures, which are fairly impressive. We recognise that many of these students were denied access to education in the past, and we must commend the scheme for what it's been able to achieve.
Minister, there still remains the problem of access to NSFAS. Part of the problem is that there is this two-week window period by which students must apply for it since the funds are administered by universities. So, the whole issue of access is still not dealt with as there are still hundreds of students who are battling to gain access to the system. Will the Minister agree that perhaps the review will deal with the issue of access? One of the possible solutions is to allow students to apply directly to NSFAS rather than via universities. Is that one possible solution or are there any other solutions that the Minister is considering to deal with the whole issue of strengthening access to NSFAS? Thank you, Chairperson.
Chairperson, I just want to say to the hon member that we are aware of these problems. We expect the review to look at the efficiency and efficacy of the scheme itself, such that it is able to operate optimally without endangering the educational opportunities of poor students. So, I don't really want to anticipate what the recommendations will be - whether they will be that you apply centrally or not. However, the advantage of doing it through institutions is that it makes it quicker rather than creating an overarching, centralised bureaucracy that is disconnected from what the universities offer and from what the students might want in particular institutions.
As an aside, by the way, the one thing we want to speed up to be national - I nearly said "to nationalise", and that is the correct word [Laughter.] - is the applications process so that students do not have to pay R7 000 applying to many institutions, but apply in one place as is happening in the province of KwaZulu-Natal at this point in time. Thank you. [Applause.]
Minister, I'm a bit reluctant to ask this question because you've just said that you are aware of all the problems that are there.
Kodwa-ke bengicela ukubuza ukuthi njengoba uNgqongqoshe esesinikezile izinombolo zalabo abasizwe yile mali. Unazo yini uNgqongqoshe izinombolo zalabo abehlulekile ukusizwa yile mali abafakile izicelo abakhona kuzo lezi zikhungo. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[I would like to know from the Minister, since she has given us the number of students who were assisted by this money, whether he knows how many students who applied but were not assisted are currently at these institutions.]
I'm talking here about those students whose applications have not been accepted, in spite of passing the means test of R120 000. Does the Minister know the number of such students? If he does, what sort of intervention or help can he give to such students? In fact, I've got a number of such students.
UNGQONGQOSHE WEMFUNDO EPHAKEME NOKUQEQESHA: Baba Mpontshane, bengingacelwanga ngingakezi la lezi nombolo, kodwa-ke sinazo lezi zinombolo emgodleni, zikhona emgodleni. [Uhleko.] Uma ungaphinde uke uwubuze lobuzo siyobuya nje sesikubuyela nempendulo yonke yakho ukuthi wobani abafundi futhi bangakanani ababecele ukusizwa kodwa abangathathwa. Kodwa bengingazi ukuthi uzongibuza lombuzo sewungilalele endleleni impela nje usuwenza njengephoyisa lomgwaqo elingilalela endleni. [Uhleko.] Uma uphinda uwubuza nje siyokubuyela nempendulo, ungahlupheki baba. Ngiyabonga. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Hon Mpontshane, I was not asked to have those statistics at hand, but we do have them in our data base. [Laughter.] If you can ask that question again, we will come back with the answers to all your questions as to how many students applied for assistance but whose applications were not accepted. Unfortunately, I did not anticipate that you were going to ask me this question; you have caught me off guard. [Laughter.] Do not worry, if you ask it again we will give you the answer. Thank you.]
Hon Minister, while we're waiting for the results of the thorough review, do we have urgent plans in place to have NSFAS's presence at the schools so that students are able to understand ...? We know that access is a problem and, obviously, it is a problem right now. For a while we have been discussing the possibility of an actual presence in the schools so that students have access right there and then to what they need to know. Thanks.
Chairperson, in fact, it is a very important issue that the hon member is raising. It has been raised with me that in many schools, especially in rural areas, they don't even know about the existence of NSFAS. This is a matter that is being discussed in the Council of Education Ministers at the moment, where it has also been raised.
We will have to look at ways and means of making sure that NSFAS is actually known in all schools so that students will be able to apply. Thank you.
Costing of proposed National Health Insurance
38. Mr M Waters (DA) asked the Minister of Health:
Whether the proposed National Health Insurance (NHI) has been costed; if not, why not; if so, (a) by whom, (b) when was this costing released and (c) what are the estimated costs involved?