About

Contact

Find my representatives

Find those who have been elected to represent you in government

Find those who have been elected to represent you in government

Use my location

Find representatives

Find by name

Find by committee

Search for MPs and MPLs

Legislatures

National Parliament

National Assembly

National Council of Provinces

Provincial Legislatures

Browse by province

Eastern Cape

Free State

Gauteng

Kwazulu-Natal

Limpopo

Mpumalanga

Northern Cape

North West

Western Cape

MP Performance

Follow the activities of representatives and hold them accountable

Follow the activities of representatives and hold them accountable

Activities & Performance

Questions to ministers

pmg external link icon

Parliamentary committees

pmg external link icon

MP Corner

Transparency

Attendance of meetings

Members' interests

Code of conduct

pmg external link icon

Civic Education

Learn more about governance in South Africa and your representatives

Learn more about governance in South Africa and your representatives

From our blog

Infographics

All articles

Understanding government

Central Tenets of Government

pmg external link icon

Structure of Government

pmg external link icon

The Legislative Process

pmg external link icon

State Institutions Supporting Democracy

pmg external link icon

Take action

Find the actions you can take to participate in governance

Find the actions you can take to participate in governance

Have Your Say

Write to an MP

Write to a Committee

Get involved

Petitions

Visit Constituency Offices

Attending and observing parliament

Participating in calls for comment

About

Contact

  • Home »
  • Hansard »
  • 2010 »
  • April »
  • 20 »
  • PROCEEDINGS OF EXTENDED PUBLIC COMMITTEE - OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER (Tuesday, 20 April 2010)

Csir.

  • ← Pe.
  • Untitled (1)
  • (narrative) 20 Apr 2010 hansard
    One way to close the gap is to commercialise the results of scientific research. The Department of Science and Technology says it is committed to value-adding of research and development, yet it stopped its funding to the South African Aids Vaccine Initiative. How does cutting funding for HIV and Aids research add value? SAAVI is developing a vaccine specifically for subtype C, which is the dominant strain of the HIV epidemic in South Africa. The DST says that since the vaccine has entered clinical trials, the department's job is done.
    Link in context Link
  • (narrative) hansard
    Carolyn Williamson from the University of Cape Town argues in an article in the South African Journal of Science that it does not make sense for the DST to fund only up to phase one safety trials, as vaccine trials take over 15 years to come to fruition.
    Link in context Link
  • (narrative) hansard
    South Africa is a highly desirable location for the HIV-vaccine research. The DST argues that the South African HIV/Aids Research (and Innovation) Platform, Sharp, was launched in July 2009 as a means of "revisiting" its expectations of the HIV-vaccine research in favour of a "strategic combination of interventions", whatever that means. This is not acceptable. Sharp currently supports nine research projects but none of them compares to that of SAAVI.
    Link in context Link
  • (narrative) hansard
    Carolyn Williamson goes on to say, and I quote:
    Link in context Link
  • (narrative) hansard
    "They are funding only basic science in isolation but it is not obvious from the outside what their long-term strategy is."
    Link in context Link
  • (narrative) hansard
    She says further -
    Link in context Link
  • (narrative) hansard
    "If the DST's mission is product development, I don't think it has a sensible approach. If you develop a product, why go all the way to trial and then just dump it? What kind of a science and technology department are you?"
    Link in context Link
  • (narrative) hansard
    South Africa lacked the capacity to produce a vaccine for foot-and-mouth disease and Botswana captured the market. It is precisely this kind of foot- dragging that will hinder South Africa from becoming a knowledge-based economy.
    Link in context Link
  • (narrative) hansard
    I am sure many present here are intrigued and fascinated by the Joule car on display here today. A question to the Minister: Why do you consider this car "innovative"? I have travelled in a battery-operated bus in India, outside the Taj Mahal. This kind of product is already a world product, regarded as "off the shelf" and not innovative, as in the DST's definition. There is nothing unique about the Joule in terms of manufacture and development.
    Link in context Link
  • (narrative) hansard
    An amount of R50 million was spent on it and I'm given to understand from an article in a motoring magazine that only 50% of the parts will be made in SA. The article goes on to state that the developer, Optimal Energy, is planning to test a fleet of Joule cars during the World Cup to gauge public response and gather technical feedback.
    Link in context Link
  • (narrative) hansard
    The timing of the test launch during the World Cup is an interesting development, given that the car will only be ready for a formal launch in 2012. Can the Minister explain the timing? More importantly, can she tell us who will benefit from the development and sale of the battery-operated car - the DST, ANC or Optimal Energy? The selling price of the Joule car is expected to be in the region of about R200 000. So, clearly, it is not aimed at the ordinary man in the street.
    Link in context Link
  • (narrative) hansard
    2010 has been declared "The Year of Biotechnology" by the United Nations. DST acknowledges that it should take the lead in the emerging area of biotechnology, and the Minister has made commitments about South Africa being world leaders, especially in biopesticides. Yet again the question is what has the DST done in this regard to date? The current registration process is a joke. Furthermore, does a register exist of all the research bodies, including private companies, involved in biotechnology?
    Link in context Link
  • (narrative) hansard
    I am glad that the Minister mentioned the state of our forensic labs. I spoke to a head of one of the laboratories in Johannesburg and discovered that at the present moment the backlog at forensic laboratories is up to four years in Pretoria and six years in Johannesburg. Our courts will be jammed up with litigation challenging results, because I don't believe that the blood will yield proper results, given that it has been stored for such a long time. It's really an indictment and I'm glad the Minster mentioned it. I hope the Minister will spearhead urgent action around that.
    Link in context Link
  • (narrative) hansard
    We all concur that there is a lot to be done to make the field of science and technology more sexy and appealing to Joe Public. The overuse of highly scientific language and rebranding are perhaps starting points from which to break down the psychological barriers that exist in young learners' minds ... [Interjections.] [Time expired.] [Applause.]
    Link in context Link
  • Mrs M M A Nyama hansard

    Chairperson, hon Minister, Deputy Minister and other Ministers present, Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Science and Technology, hon members, we are meeting here today to approve the funds allocated to the Department of Science and Technology for their programmes. As we look at this department and its programmes, the question is: Do we, as Parliament, agree that the funds allocated to the department will be used for a just cause?

    One of the priorities of the department is to cushion the impact of climate change on our people. The department accepts that climate change is one of the major threats facing humanity in the 21st century, with Africa being the hardest hit. The challenge is to have the capacity to adapt to climate change.

    Climate change poses a greater threat to poor people, whose survival depends on natural resources. Subsistence farmers, for example, depend on rainfall for irrigation. If rainfall patterns change, their lives are disrupted.

    Let us try to see what made the department concentrate on this phenomenon of climate change. Let's look at the impact of climate change on agriculture and food security.

    I grew up in a rural area, as a rural girl, as a daughter to subsistence farmers. Around September the first rains would fall. Around October, more rain would fall. We would start ploughing and we would harvest bags and bags of mealies. For the whole year we would be exchanging bags of mealies for mealie meal. We would have food on our table every day. But, over time, that has changed. One asks oneself what is happening. The answer is always: It is climate change. [Applause.] Climate change comes with floods that will clean off the good soil from the earth's surface - soil that is needed for food production. Then, when the droughts come and we want to plant, it is a disaster. Food production is made more difficult.

    Climate change also has an impact on biodiversity, because higher temperatures, droughts and floods are threats to ecosystems. Even the migration patterns of some migratory animals might change. At times, the changes in temperature affect species distribution and population sizes. This causes changes in reproduction patterns and, at times, even the extinction of species.

    If we look at the impact on human health we see that once there are floods, we have a larger area in which disease-carrying insects can start reproducing. For example, we'll have malaria mosquitoes breeding in flooded areas, and the breeding area grows larger and larger with the floods. We also find that even where there was no malaria in the past, we will now start having outbreaks. That is one of the impacts of climate change.

    Climate change also has an impact on water resources. We will have water, then not have water; we will have floods followed by droughts. We will find that the places where people can get water will become very scarce. As these water sources dry up, competition between animals and people for water will start to develop. Forget about plants being irrigated. When people and animals share drinking places, one can imagine what will happen there: The development of disease will become very easy.

    Such are the impacts of climate change, and they are the things that made the Department of Science and Technology decide that it needed to start studying these phenomena and developing people who could look at intervention strategies that could save people from these horrible things that are bound to happen to them.

    Looking at all this, one can observe that the use of these funds by this department would be for a good cause. It is to save people from the horrible impact that they could experience from climate change.

    A number of things have been said here, by the Minister herself, as well as by other members of the committee. I observed something important in what each and every one of them said. Everybody has spoken and from what has been said, one can see how everything - the MeerKAT, or whatever - is going to impact positively on people who would otherwise have been impacted on negatively. Therefore, I recommend that, as Parliament, we give this Budget Vote the thumbs-up.

    Link in context Link
  • Picture of Naledi Pandor
    Minister Of Science And Technology hansard

    Chairperson, I would like to begin by thanking all the members who have participated in the debate for their contributions. It is clear that all members have an astute appreciation of the critical role that science and technology can play in our country, on the continent and globally. I am, therefore, very pleased by the support that we have received and the understanding shown by members of all the critical areas that we must address.

    I do agree with hon members that we need an improved budget. Of course, I remind hon members that in terms of a new law they do have the power to make recommendations in respect of adjustments to the budget. I am hopeful that they are sharing their sentiments with members in other committees of Parliament.

    Hon Smith, we have a commitment to 1% of GDP. It is not an aspiration, but a target that the department has set for itself. Sadly, I believe the achievement of that target did not follow as it should have done. So, when I say I believe we must aim for at least 1,5% by 2014 - or more, with your assistance and that of other hon members - we plan to follow through and achieve that target. We will not aspire. I don't believe in aspirations; I believe in following through. So, I believe we must have improvement. We must plan for improvement. We must fight for improvement and ensure that we do have better resourcing of research in the country.

    In the European Union they have a 3% threshold, and this is set. I read in an article recently that the Ministers of Finance of EU countries are very unhappy about this. They argued that there should not be a hard-and-fast target, especially in these difficult economic times. The Ministers of Science and the science councils argued that such a threshold must be maintained; in fact, it should grow even further. So, I believe this is something we must pursue vigorously and not be shy about.

    The development of a human capital strategy was delayed by the absence of a full complement of staff in that particular section in the department. We have now made the necessary appointments and I believe the committee was informed that, within the next few months, we will be coming to it with a strategy to indicate how we intend to proceed in respect of investment in human capital development in science and technology. We will be coming to the committee with that particular draft plan.

    On the matter of the Technology Innovation Agency and the Space Agency, you must remember that these are new institutions. We had a number of entities in the country existing as distinct and separate components doing different work, either in biotechnology or in space science or other areas. These have existed as entities with their own rules on financial management, human resource practices, etc. We need to bring these entities under two major agencies with similar policies on human resources, salaries, financial management and so on.

    To do that, you do need to take your time, particularly when, with TIA, you are dealing with more than one entity. There are several Brics that will now reside under the ambit of TIA. That is why I have said that it will take 12 to 24 months. I am not sure why 2013 was mentioned in the committee. I suspect it was a slip of the tongue on the part of a member who was very nervous in front of hon Smith. [Laughter.]

    We are working very hard to ensure that the timeframe I have referred to is indeed achieved. We are addressing the organisational requirements and policy aspects that I have referred to, as well as the requirements of National Treasury, because we must meet their particular rules to begin to make our case for financing.

    I am always a bit worried when organisations begin by arguing for increased resources before getting their establishment issues right. We believe the establishment issues must be addressed while these institutions also make use of the funding that is already available to them. There is funding allocated to the TIA entities. TIA is actually able to get off the ground, but its full operation - where we begin to see the results of an innovation agency - will, I think, be evident within the 24-month period I have referred to.

    I think we should give them the space to really get the organisational structure right so that, when we make the argument to Treasury for the kind of resources that will begin to place us at a level where we have venture support that really enhances innovation in South Africa, we would do so in an orderly way. I would ask that Members of Parliament really support us in that regard.

    Link in context Link
  • Picture of Wilmot Godfrey James
    Dr W G James hansard

    Will the hon Minister take a question?

    Link in context Link
  • Picture of Naledi Pandor
    Minister Of Science And Technology hansard

    Definitely not from the hon James, as I know he will give me a very hard time.

    Link in context Link
  • Picture of Mildred Oliphant
    House Chairperson (Ms M N Oliphant) hansard

    Hon member, you know the procedures of the House. You can't just stand up and ask the Minister whether she would take a question. You must ask that through the Chairperson. You may continue, hon Minister.

    Link in context Link
  • Picture of Naledi Pandor
    Minister Of Science And Technology hansard

    Thank you, Chairperson. We will have dinner together later and he will be able to ask me all sorts of questions, plus he can put them on the Order Paper.

    The matter of monitoring and evaluation that was referred to by the hon member from Cope is something we have begun to address in the department. We must align our framework for monitoring and evaluation with the requirements emanating from the Presidency, as well as the performance requirements that come from statutes and from the Public Finance Management Act.

    So, through a unit we have established, we are establishing a proper set of criteria that we will utilise in order to respond to the framework that government is currently using. I assure you that you should not worry that we are not going to monitor progress. In fact, as I have said, we are no longer going to be hoping and aspiring; we want to be performing and planning appropriately.

    I hope members will pay attention to the department and ensure that it does meet the indicators and targets that it has put before you in the corporate strategy.

    Members made reference through hon Shinn to the matter of the National Research Foundation and Professor Charles. We have had discussions with Ms Shinn on this matter and I really don't want to delve into it in this honourable House. We have asked the chairperson of the NRF board to undertake certain steps to repair the damage that the hon Shinn has referred to. I don't want to convert the House into a tribunal of some kind because we don't know the full story. I certainly don't. I want the orderly performance of science to proceed and our programmes to be achieved and everybody to be satisfied that they are being treated fairly and with justice in our system.

    I would be the first to fight if the academic intention of one of our professionals was impacted upon by any of the science councils. If a paper that was written with content that the NRF disagreed with was being hidden in a drawer, I would quarrel. If a person had an opinion with which the NRF disagreed, and they tried to stop that opinion from being expressed, I would have a quarrel.

    But, as to a disciplinary case within their human resource processes, if it harms relations, I believe the board has the capacity to address that and I have asked them to pay attention to it. If members wish to delve further, I will certainly come before the committee, as I had indicated to Dr Ngcobo, and give you any further explanation that you might want, but I really don't wish to delay the House with that particular matter.

    On the question of the Joule and the hon Kalyan's comments, as the hon Kalyan stood up I said to Deputy Minister Hanekom that it had been a great debate but now we were in trouble. He said to me, no, she's going to be very positive. I said, you watch. And I was correct, as usual. [Laughter.]

    Hon Kalyan, on the question of what we are doing about learners regarding maths and science, I certainly believe the hon Dunjwa referred to some of that. I know that Minister Motshekga dealt with some of that in the Basic Education debate. I am sure Minister Nzimande would also have addressed that in his budget debate. The documents of the education departments as well as the work the Deputy Minister referred to speak of what is being done.

    Concerning climate change, we certainly are supporting a lot of research in the area, but I believe that there are a number of very exciting initiatives in the environment and geosciences faculties at our universities that we need to tap into. There are also institutes in our universities that have a great deal of experience in research on climate change.

    I believe an alliance must be built between the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research and performing institutions, so that we make the greatest possible use of the research and activity that is coming out of all these learned bodies in the country. I don't think there is enough collaboration and we need to do more around that.

    On drought-resistant crops and the impact of climate change on health, a great deal of research is being done and, again, we are working with the departments of Environment and of Health to address these areas.

    The Chairperson tells me my time is up.

    The Southern Africa Vulnerability Initiative continues to be funded by the Department of Health. If I had more than R5 billion, I probably would have funded it, but since I have very little money, I am afraid I can't fund everything. Thank you. [Applause.]

    Link in context Link
  • Picture of Mildred Oliphant
    House Chairperson (Ms M N Oliphant) hansard

    Thank you, hon Minister. I would like to remind members that there is going to be an EPC on Communications at 16:30 in E249, and another EPC, on Energy, here in the Old Assembly Chamber, also starting at 16:30.

    Debate concluded.

    Link in context Link
  • ← Pe.

Correct this page

Follow us

  • Facebook
  • Twitter
  • Instagram

Sitemap

  • Home
  • Rep Locator
  • People
    • Find by name
    • Parliament
      • National Assembly
      • National Council of Provinces
    • Provinces
      • Eastern Cape
      • Free State
      • Gauteng
      • KwaZulu-Natal
      • Limpopo
      • Mpumalanga
      • Northern Cape
      • North West
      • Western Cape
  • Blog
  • MP Profiles
  • MP Attendance
  • Public Participation
    • Make yourself heard
    • Elections
      • Election 2014 Candidates
      • Election 2019 Candidates
    • Petitions
    • Write to a Committee
  • Hot Topics
    • Questions
    • MP Assets
    • MP Corner
    • Infographics
  • Links
  • Get the data
  • For Representatives

Contact us

People's Assembly
contact@pa.org.za

Tel: (021) 465 8885

Fax: (021) 465 8887

2nd Floor 9 Church Square Parliament Street
Cape Town 8001
South Africa

Disclaimer

The data for this site has been sourced form a range of organisations and websites and often received in formats that are hard to process. As a result, errors can occur - if you see something that you think is an error, please click on the "Correct This Page" button and let us know so that we can investigate. Please click here to read more about our source data.

  • Privacy
  • Give us feedback

This site runs on open source code written by mySociety.