Thank you very much, Deputy Speaker. The ratio which the hon member is referring to simply reflects the calculation of the current staff complement in relation to the estimated number of offenders, including projections of growth and releases. The ratio of 1:4 is therefore based on the total number of offenders divided by the total number of members nationally - that is, 160 000 inmates to 40 000 officials.
This formula is inclusive of all components: support staff, specialised staff and security staff. Therefore, it is not a reference to the staff to inmate ratio deployed for case management and security personnel in terms of the unit management model in centres. The current ratio for the unit management model at the centres is averaged at 1:17. The international norm is benchmarked at 1:20.
Following the agreement on the occupation-specific dispensation, OSD, of 2007, the department has implemented a process of migration to ensure that all officials who are trained as correctional officers are deployed to centre levels. This was aimed at ensuring increased capacity for the provision of security and programmes to offenders at the centres.
Following the National Treasury directive that the department's total organisational establishment should be reduced from 46 000 to 40 000, a team was established for the revision of the staffing ratios based on the alignment of structure and functions of the department. I have since also directed that an audit of our small centres be conducted to determine which one of these centres can be rationalised in order to share resources and improve the rendering of services. Some of these centres have an inmate to staff ratio of 1:1 and less.
Lastly, the project's target date for completion of the migration process is 30 September 2010. In the meantime, the department is currently filling critical posts in the support sections to allow those correctional officers who are currently engaged in support work to be redeployed to the centre. I thank you.
Thank you, Deputy Speaker. Minister, if one looks at the annual report for 2006-07, the administration staff complement was 7 433; in 2007-08, it was 6 593; and 2008-09, it was more or less 6 630. The question that I would like to ask the Minister is: Does the department have the right number of properly trained staff, in the right places, doing the right thing?
My own view is that 6 000 people at head office or 6 000 office-based staff is a bit too much and top heavy. I think that we should be looking at redeploying some of those office-based staff to working in the centres. I would be interested in your views on that, Madam Minister. Thank you very much.
Deputy Speaker, I thought the hon member understood me when I said that one of the priority areas of the department right now was that of migration, which means movement of some of the employees from head office, from doing administration work, to doing the work of custodial services. There is also a directive given to us by the National Treasury which says that we should reduce the staff numbers within the Department of Correctional Services, from 46 000 to 40 000. That is one of the things that we are doing.
I have also indicated that the last date, which is D-Day for this migration process to be completed, is 30 September 2010. Thank you.
Hon Mazibuko.
Deputy Speaker, it is Fritz. There is something wrong with our system. It is common cause that with the introduction of the seven-day establishment and the two-shift system into correctional centres, incentives had been created for centre-based officials. This resulted in many office-based officials in critical positions in those administration posts electing to migrate to centre-based positions. I heard the Minister talking about this migration process.
But this is purely on paper. In reality, at the centre level, it is not in existence. The question we want to ask is: What is the Minister going to do - and specifically doing and implementing - in managing the flow of critical office-based officials to centre-based positions that we all know only exist on paper, as I indicated? Secondly, what has she done to remedy the situation in which the ratio of centre-based officials, in many instances, at correctional centres, is 1:200 and, in some instances, 1:300? I thank you.
Thank you very much, Deputy Speaker. Hon Fritz, I don't know where you get the figures from. The ratio of 1:300 I am not aware of. Nonetheless, you are a member of the portfolio committee, I expect that at any time on any day you may want to invite the department, led by me, to come and present the exact figures and the exact state of affairs in the regions.
One of the issues you raised was the 12 x 2-by-two shift system. You and I understand very clearly the reasons behind the decision to go the route of the 12 x 2 shift system. It was at a time when we were introducing the seven-day establishment. However, we later received reports that this system was not working. We issued a directive that, in fact, all heads of centres should use their discretion as to what kind of shift system they would want to embark upon. We are all aware of this.
Now, what is a problem for me is that this directive was issued in March 2010 to try to rectify the situation. After a lot of lobbying by officials, Members of Parliament, the South African public and civil society and so on, we then went back and issued a directive. To my surprise, to date, 80% of the centres continue to use the 12 x 2 shift system. When you talk to officials, they will tell you that they were satisfied with the 12 x 2 system. Yes, there are challenges of human resource capacity here and there, but, in fact, this is the ideal shift system. It is the only shift system you may want to have in a centre in order for you to meet the requirements which have been created by the seven-day establishment.
Therefore, with regard to the written question you gave us, I actually tabulated in the response all the regions and all the centres to try to prove that, in fact, it is a very strange development that people complain about the 12 x 2 shift system. We issued a directive, but people still retained the 12 x 2 shift system. Therefore, we are now at 80% at all the centres, and we are using the 12 x 2 shift system. Maybe you and I need to sit down and engage on what best we can do to turn the situation around. Thank you very much.
Thank you very much, Deputy Speaker. Minister, you said that the directives sometimes are issued and then turned by those people who are working under the two-day shift system. How do you monitor that? I ask this question because some of the people who escape from Correctional Services escape because the human resources are not equal to the numbers they were looking after. As management, how do you monitor that?
Thank you very much. Tat' uNdlovu, andikholelwa nakancinane ukuba into yokubaleka kwamabanjwa kumaziko ibangelwa yinto yokungabikho kwabasebenzi aboneleyo. Ewe, ikhona ingxaki esinayo yokungabikho kwabasebenzi abaneleyo kwiZiko lezoLuleko, kwaye nokuba singafaka inkqubo yamaxesha okungena amathathu, amane okanye amathandathu siyakuhlala sinayo ingxaki yabasebenzi kwisebe. Njengoko besenditshilo ngaphambili ukuba iNational Treasury sele isixelele ukuba kufanele ukuba sithoba ukusuka kuma-46 000 amasentile ukuya kuma- 40 000. Khawube nombono woko kuza kwenzeka ngenxa yaloo nto.
Into ebalulekileyo yeyokuba sibe neenkqubo ezifanelekileyo ezizakusincedisa ekubekeni iliso kakuhle, ngaphandle kokuxhomekeka kuthi bantu. Kufanele ukuba sibe neenkqubo eziza kuthi zikwazi ukusibonisa amabanjwa xa ehamba- hamba, kanti naxa ebaleka.
Ingxaki esinayo ikakhulu yeyokuba, iinkqubo esinazo apha kwiZiko lezoLuleko azisebenzi ngendlela ezifanele ukuba zisebenze ngayo. Kufuneka siphucule iinkqubo zethu sizidibanise nabo.
Ikhona enye ingxaki eyaziwa ndim nawe yokuba ngamaphuth' ahlathinye apho abasebenzi bamaZiko ezoLuleko anceda amabanjwa ukuze akwazi ukubaleka. Yenye yezinto ezi ekufanele ukuba sizilungise kwiZiko lezoLuleko.
Abasebenzi beSebe lezoLuleko abazange benziwa uhlolo lwabaqeshwa ukuqinisekisa ukuba ababandakanyeki kulwaphulomthetho. Ngoku enye yeengxaki esijongene nazo kukuhlolwa kwabalawuli ukuqinisekisa ukuba ababandakanyeki kulwaphulomthetho.
Ukusuka kwethu kuhlolo lwabalawuli kwizenzo zolwaphulomthetho siza kuhla siye kumaziko. Sesiqalile ngabalawuli abazintloko zamaziko, kuba oku kokunye kwemimngeni yethu emikhulu. Umngeni ngowokuba likhona eli yelenqe phakathi kwamabanjwa kunye nabasebenzi bamaZiko oluLeko. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)
[Mr Ndlovu, I don't believe at all that the escapes of prisoners from the centres are caused by a lack of human resources. Indeed, we have inadequate human resources at correctional centres and whether we introduce a three-, four- or six-shift system, we will always have the problem of inadequate human resources within the department.
As I have indicated before, the National Treasury wants us to reduce the organisational establishment from 46 000 to 40 000 warders. Imagine the consequences of that.
What is important is that we must have proper systems that will help us monitor without relying on human resources. We must have systems that will be able to show us prisoners moving from place to place and also when they escape. The major problem that we have is that the systems that we have at correctional centres are not working the way they are supposed to. We must improve our systems and consolidate them.
There is another problem that we both know about and that is that some of the warders are colluding with the prisoners to escape. This is one of the habits that we need to rectify at correctional centres.
Workers at the Department of Correctional Services have never gone through a security clearance to ascertain that they are not involved in crime. Another problem that we have now is the security screening of the managers to ascertain that they too are not involved in crime.
From screening managers for criminal acts, we will go down to the centres. We have already started with the chief executive officers because this is one of our major challenges. The challenge is that there is collusion between the prisoners and the warders.]
Thank you, hon Minister. Hon Mnqasela?
Hon Speaker, again, I am at his desk.
Are you hon Mnqasela?
No, no, I am Fritz. I am at his desk; my thing does not work at the back. [Laughter.]
Don't do that, because there are other people here who want to speak.
I pressed this button. [Interjections.]
I said, don't do that. You should press "Fritz" because you spoke earlier.
"Fritz" does not respond.
No, no, no, there's "Fritz" here. Before that, there was "Fritz" who responded. So, you are not the hon Mnqasela? Hon Mnqasela, you didn't press your button.
Madam Deputy Speaker, it seems as if a lot of things are not working in Parliament at the present time. [Laughter.]
They are working.
I can assure you that the hon Fritz is working very well; it is just his microphone that is not working. [Laughter.]
I doubt it. [Laughter.]
His name is Fritz and not Mazibuko. Please give him a chance to speak.
His microphone is working. It's him who is not working. [Laughter.] That's for the last time.
We actually think he works quite well, Madam Deputy Speaker. [Laughter.]
I wouldn't want to say: "Don't touch me on my studio". Hon Fritz, you can speak. [Laughter.]
Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I want to really thank the Minister for the response. I will take you up on your invitation to go on a site visit. We can go to Pollsmoor - it's just 25 kilometres from Cape Town - unannounced. You will find a ratio of people on duty at any time of 3:300. I want to suggest to the Minister that we should do this. We should go there unannounced. We should not tell them that we are coming.
I further want to say to the Minister that the reason why so many people say to you that they are happy with the two-shift system is because they work for four days, get two days off and then stay off three more days on sick leave. They do not come back. You have an absenteeism rate of 40% to 50% at any given time at correctional centres. This is our problem.
Hon Minister, how do we address the absenteeism rate relating specifically and directly to the two-shift system? That is the point we are making. [Applause.]
So, finally, your thing is working? [Laughter.] I was just wondering what I was supposed to do with your thing that was not working. [Laughter.] [Applause.]
Hon Fritz, I fully agree with you that it's good to go on unannounced visits, because that is where you get to know and understand the system better and how its managers do their work at a centre level. But ... [Interjections.] I'm sorry. [Laughter.] You see now ... [Laughter.] ... Minister of Home Affairs. Which Minister of Home Affairs?
The hon Ellis seems to understand that his thing works better. [Laughter.] [Applause.]
Order, hon members!
Madam Deputy Speaker, the reason why I said Mr Fritz's thing was working very well, was because he came to me earlier today and said, "I just want to let you know that my thing is working very well indeed." [Laughter.]
I am sorry, Madam Deputy Speaker. Yes, the rate of absenteeism is a big problem. I agree with you, and I am sure all members of the portfolio committee are aware of it. Actually, we have just discovered that we have officers who have been on leave for more than two years. [Interjections.] We have had to give a deadline for them to report to work; otherwise, medical boarding will be the next step. This is because most of them are said to be on sick leave. These are big numbers we are talking about; this, when in fact we could actually use the posts they have been occupying.
So, I do agree. But this is not as a result of the 12 x 2 shift system. You should remember that the 12 x 2 shift system was introduced in September last year. So the high rate of absenteeism has everything to do with a lack of management and supervision by managers who are supposed to be managing at the centres; and, secondly, with the laissez faire attitude of officials, something that all of us need to tackle. This certainly cannot be tackled by us on our own.
That is why we are also encouraging the portfolio committee to embark on unannounced visits, but not only that; individual members of the committee or MPs in their constituencies, where there are centres, have the right to go in. So whatever you pick up, you sensitise us about it, so that we can deal with it. Thank you very much. Your thing must now work. [Laughter.] [Applause.]
Position regarding impact of Zimbabwe's refusal to comply with rulings of SADC Tribunal
165. Mr H T Magama (ANC) asked the Minister of International Relations and Co-operation:
(1) Whether she has found that Zimbabwe's refusal to comply with the rulings of the Southern African Development Community Tribunal has had an impact on (a) the credibility and effectiveness of SADC and (b) the regional integration process; if not, what is the position in this regard; if so, what are the relevant details in each case;
(2) whether the Government will propose measures to SADC that will ensure that member states do not repeat such behaviour; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details?