Hon members, may I appeal to members to behave in this session. All the Whips from all political parties should make sure that their members behave.
Hon House Chair, hon Members of Parliament of this House, in order for us to achieve our strategic goal of ensuring that the people in South Africa are and feel safe, much depends on the kind of civilian oversight we establish. Section 208 of our Constitution gives effect to the establishment of the civilian secretariat under the direction of the Minister. The White Paper on Safety and Security also required of us to reform this policy to ensure that both policy planning and policy monitoring occurred outside of the department, but within the Ministry.
Over a period of time, we have said that we have a duty to fight crime smartly and toughly, with no mercy for those heartless criminals. At the same time, we depend much on Bills like the one before us today, the Civilian Secretariat for Police Service Bill, to ensure that there are no abuses from that point of view.
We said a few weeks ago when we passed the Intellectual Property Laws Amendment Bill here that these kinds of interventions aimed at strengthening the civilian oversight arm are made to ensure that we will never experience a police state. Therefore, the separation of powers and the determination of their implementation have to be the order of the day. This Civilian Secretariat for Police Service Bill seeks to ensure that a few things are observed: one, to ensure that there is strong civilian oversight; two, to ensure that there are partnerships; three, to ensure that proper policy advice is given to the Minister; and, lastly, to ensure that the civilian secretariat becomes a designated department. The co- operation between the civilian secretariat and Independent Police Investigative Directorate is of the utmost importance.
Another key aspect of this Bill relates to the establishment of the provincial secretariat. We are putting more emphasis on ensuring that we strengthen this part of the secretariat to ensure that where things happen, at the coalface in the provinces, the monitoring and evaluation units are working, and working effectively. As we demonstrated before, when we all pull together we succeed. When we focus our energies, our commitment, and walk our talk, we overcome together.
This is a new era, a new way of doing things and a new way of securing our democracy through civilian oversights over police practices, budgets and performance. We remain committed to seeing through our vision of a transformed, accountable, and effective Police Service. Thank you. [Applause.]
Hon Chairperson, members of Cabinet, hon Members of Parliament, fellow South Africans, in December 1997, at its 50th national conference in Mafikeng, the ANC - the people's liberation movement, the oldest organisation in South Africa, in Africa, and one of the few oldest organisations in the world - resolved that: "The political oversight and authority of the SAPS Ministry shall be enhanced to ensure compliance with the aims of the government of the day."
The Bill before the House today is in line with the Mafikeng ANC national conference resolution. As a matter of fact, it unapologetically implements that resolution. By the way, the ANC leads, and the ANC lives. [Applause.]
As contemplated in section 208 of the Constitution, a civilian secretariat for the police must be established by national legislation to function under the direction of the Cabinet member responsible for policing. The Civilian Secretariat for Police Service Bill hereby intends to establish the police civilian secretariat.
In 1995, when the SA Police Service Act was passed, it established the Secretariat for Safety and Security. Currently, even if it is expected to exercise civilian oversight over the Police Service, the secretariat has to depend on the SAPS for its budget or finances. Since it gets its budget from the SAPS, it equally has to account to the SAPS on how it spends its allocated budget. This undermines the civilian oversight role of the secretariat over the police. This Bill establishes a civilian secretariat as a designated department at national level. This means that as soon as this Bill is passed and becomes an Act, the secretariat will get its budget from Treasury and that budget will be approved by Parliament. The secretary will be an accounting officer of the civilian secretariat. This, on its own, is indeed a milestone.
The Bill clearly defines the objects, functions and powers of the civilian secretariat, the objects of which are: to exercise civilian oversight over the Police Service; to give strategic advice to the Minister in respect of developing and implementing policies; to provide administrative support services to the Minister; to ensure South Africa's engagement with regard to relevant international obligations; to liaise and communicate with stakeholders; to implement a partnership strategy to mobilise role-players and stakeholders; to implement, promote and align the operations and functions of the national and provincial secretariats; to promote co- operation between the secretariat, the Police Service and the directorate, that is the Independent Complaints Directorate, ICD, or Independent Police Investigative Directorate, IPID; to provide guidance to community police fora and associated structures and to facilitate their proper functioning; and to provide for the establishment, composition and functions of a senior management forum and ministerial executive committee.
Lo Mthethosivivinywa unika uNgqongqoshe woMnyango wamaPhoyisa, esebenzisa imithetho yabasebenzi, amandla okubeka owesilisa noma owesifazane ukuba abe ngunobhala isikhathi esiyiminyaka emihlanu, ingavuselelwa kanye, ukuze aphinde aqhubeke aphathe eminye iminyaka emihlanu. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[This Bill gives the Minister of Police, through the use of labour laws, the power to appoint a male or a female as secretary for a period of five years, which can be renewed for another term so that he or she can continue for another five years.]
It is the secretary who is ultimately responsible and accountable for all that happens in that office at national level.
Lo Mthethosivivinywa uphinde unike uNgqongqoshe woMnyango wamaPhoyisa amandla okuba asuse unobhala uma engaziphathi kahle, ngenxa yesimo sempilo engeyinhle noma ukuhluleka ukwenza umsebenzi ngokufanele. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[This Bill also gives the Minister of Police the power to remove the secretary if he or she does not conduct himself or herself well, because of ill health, or because of incompetence.]
The secretary is obligated to submit quarterly reports to the Minister and the parliamentary committees responsible for policing on the activities of his or her office. As with all departments, organisations and entities, the secretary shall prepare and submit to the Minister an annual report which the Minister will table in Parliament.
The Bill provides for transitional arrangements and further repeals section 2 of the South African Police Service Act, Act 68 of 1995, and amends section 1 of the SAPS Act, and section 1 of the Firearms Control Act, Act 60 of 2000.
As I conclude, I want to say that our vision is derived from the Freedom Charter, which proclaimed in 1955 that there shall be peace and friendship. This was against the backdrop of an apartheid state and security system which undermined the human dignity and the rights of our people, and simultaneously promoted war, not only in the country, but in the region and on the continent as well.
In building on this vision of the Freedom Charter, the ANC declared at the 1997 Mafikeng national conference that its vision was to create structures of civilian oversight, at local and national levels, to ensure that the SA Police Service became accountable to the civilian authority through the establishment of a civilian secretariat, the community policing forums, and others. This resolution was taken in order to promote democratic accountability, transparency and openness within the SA Police Service. Police members in possession of such powers need close monitoring and oversight by different organisations, and the civilian secretariat is one of them.
The Bill provides the Ministry of Police, the Secretariat of Police and the SAPS with yet more effective ammunition in the fight against crime. It remains our firm belief that we have to do everything we can and that is possible to ensure that crime is fought and that people are and feel safe. As Parliament, the executive, the judiciary and South Africans, we are up to the task and capable of addressing the crime-related challenges that lie ahead.
Together we are turning the tide against crime and criminals. Working together, we are winning the war. Let me thank the Secretary of Police, Ms Jenni, the state law advisers and all organisations and individuals who made written and/or oral submissions to Parliament on this Bill. They all assisted the committee in the processing of this Bill.
Ningadinwa nangomuso. [Please do it again in the future.]
Hon Chairperson, I present to the House the Civilian Secretariat for Police Service Bill of 2010. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr Chairperson, in passing this Bill we will not be creating a new entity, but rather re-establishing an existing one as a separate entity in terms of its own legislation, and not as a subsection in the South African Police Service Act.
In doing so, more credibility is given to the police secretariat, as a civilian oversight entity independent of the police. The Bill gives more clarity with regard to the objects and functions of the secretariat and extends its functions in several important respects.
It provides for the secretariat to have its own budget, and to provide for its establishment at national and provincial levels as an effective and efficient organ of state. It also provides for close co-operation between the secretariat and the soon-to-be Independent Police Investigative Directorate, or IPID, currently known as the Independent Complaints Directorate, ICD, as well as provincial secretariats and provincial police heads.
Importantly, this Bill also makes provision for the monitoring of police action and for ensuring that the SAPS puts in place effective systems for the reporting and resolution of complaints from the public.
Whilst this legislation is a step in the right direction, we need to keep in mind that the enactment of legislation alone is not going to suddenly create a body that is a well-oiled piece of machinery. No matter what the legislation says, if you do not have the right people in the right positions to give effect to this legislation, then it will mean nothing.
In this connection, one could be forgiven for not even knowing there was the Secretariat for Safety and Security until about a year ago when a new police secretariat was appointed. Until that point, the secretariat was probably one of the most dysfunctional bodies we had, frittering away money on izimbizo and activities of which we were largely unaware, as they did not file many reports either.
In my budget speech in 2009, I highlighted the fact that the department had a total staff of 37. Of these, four were directors, at a salary of R2,5 million per annum each. We had four deputy directors, at just under R1,4 million each; three assistant directors, at just under R700 000 each; and another five assistant directors, at just under R900 000 each. Thus, a total of 43% of the staff were directors. This veritable array of extremely well-paid directors managed to meet five out of their 19 performance targets for the previous financial year.
We are very pleased to see a huge improvement in the functioning of this department since then. If this continues, then this legislation will assist them in ensuring that they play the vital role of civilian oversight of the police, as envisaged in section 208 of the Constitution.
We have been concerned for a very long time that the recommendations of the ICD have not been enforced by the SAPS and that there was no legislation compelling them to do so. The recent Independent Police Investigative Directorate Bill that was approved by this House will change that and strengthen the ICD's powers. But their recommendations will be even further strengthened by this Bill, which provides for the secretary to receive reports from the executive director of IPID regarding recommendations they have made as a result of their investigations.
The secretariat must then monitor the implementation by the Police Service of the recommendations made by the directorate and provide the Minister with regular reports on steps taken to ensure their compliance. Thus, if the SAPS does not implement the IPID's recommendations, the Minister is accountable. This is a huge step forward in terms of police accountability, and we welcome it.
One of the other most significant changes in the functions of the secretariat is that it will now take over the responsibility of monitoring the police's compliance, or rather lack thereof, with the Domestic Violence Act. This was previously the responsibility of the ICD, which performed rather dismally in that regard.
The initial IPID Bill purported to repeal the whole of section 18 of the Domestic Violence Act, causing a justified outcry from NGOs working with victims of domestic violence. However, this has now been remedied, and it just provides for the secretariat to take over the responsibilities which were previously those of the ICD.
Once again, legislation can only be effective if the correct people are in place and also the necessary resources. I trust that the Secretary of Police realises the huge task that this is going to be. The report of the ICD in 2008 showed that approximately 65% of police stations fail to comply with the Domestic Violence Act. The DA registered our concerns at the time.
We had to reiterate those concerns in 2009, when a report from the Auditor- General documented chronic failure in terms of adequately reporting domestic violence incidents at police stations in eight of the nine provinces. The report even highlighted, in some instances, 75% failure rates in recording domestic violence incidents in occurrence books. This obviously affects the crime statistics and makes it difficult to gauge the true extent of the problem.
Our oversight visits in the last year have shown that, to this day, many police officers show scant regard for the Domestic Violence Act, and that they regard it as an inconvenience in their busy life of real policing. The fact that after 10 years of the Act being in force there is still a provision in the Domestic Violence Act allowing for police officers to apply for exemption from being charged with misconduct if they fail to comply with it, is a travesty of justice. The secretary has undertaken in our committee to review at the entire Act, and this clause in particular, and we will hold her to that.
Finally, Mr Speaker, I need to engage in a spot of self-indulgence, as this is the last time I will speak in this House as a member of the Portfolio Committee on Police.
As a new Member of Parliament, I can think of no nicer committee to have served on. From the start, we have worked together well and extremely hard, and in such a way that I have been inspired that there is hope for service delivery from the police in this country.
To all the members who have taught me so much so quickly, a very big thank you. But special thanks must go to the hon Chikunga, our chairperson. She is a slave-driver of note, but she works just as hard herself, if not harder. Her unfailing commitment to sorting out the Police Service is to be commended, as well as her very strong, yet very human nature.
Thank you for everything. It has been a privilege to serve on your committee. The DA will support this Bill. [Applause.]
Hon Chair, the South African Constitution requires in section 208 for the civilian secretariat to function under the direction of the Minister. It is designated as a department at the national level in its own right with its own budget. The secretary will be the accounting officer from now onwards.
It is worth taking a moment to underscore clause 4(4) of the Bill which reads:
The Civilian Secretariat ... must exercise its powers and perform its functions without fear, favour or prejudice in the interest of maintaining effective and efficient policing and a high standard of professional ethics in the police service.
This provision, read in conjunction with clause 4(6) in the Bill, provides that the secretariat will obtain its budget from money appropriated by Parliament, giving the secretariat the autonomy to function independently of the police.
This is indeed a very healthy development. The only question that we have is whether this autonomy will last. A few years ago, we were all very excited about the creation of the Scorpions, but it was too good to last. If the civilian secretariat functions too well, it may also be disbanded, not because it does not answer the needs of South Africans, but because it does not suit the ruling party.
The civilian secretariat is mandated in this Bill to give strategic advice to the Minister in respect of developing and implementing policies. I believe that the Minister is duty-bound to report to Parliament as to what he makes of the strategic advice he is given. While it will be his right to take advice or decline it, we will need to know because it is our function to exercise oversight over the Minister.
The fact that this Bill requires in clause 6(2)(a)(1) for the civilian secretariat to conduct research into policing matters and to establish competencies means that the Minister will be getting advice on the basis of research.
The creation of the resource information centre is very welcome. Just as welcome, is the fact that the civilian secretariat must conduct quality assessment of the Police Service, identify problem areas for early interventions and help develop best practice models.
For South Africans who are punch-drunk from being attacked by criminals, it is important that the civilian secretariat continues to recommend steps for improved service delivery and police effectiveness. If this is done satisfactorily, the public will endorse the secretariat.
If this fails, the public will have nowhere else to turn. So, the secretariat is one of the important structures in our country. I see my time has expired, Chair. What I want to say, which must be addressed by the Minister, is that, funds permitting, the secretariat must be given more powers, especially in the provinces. At the moment, there are limits. Cope will support the Bill. Thank you very much. [Time expired.]
Chairperson, firstly, I must state that I am not a member of this portfolio committee. The IFP's member of the committee is Mr V B Ndlovu, but I am standing in on his behalf and on behalf of the IFP. The party supports this Bill.
The Civilian Secretariat for Police Service Bill is another landmark Bill that seeks to entrench and enhance the supervision and oversight of our Police Service. Our constitutional dispensation demands that the civilian secretariat be established and, therefore, this Bill is an imperative within our democracy.
The Police Service is not autonomous or above the law and must be held to account for any actions which go beyond the limits of reasonable law enforcement.
The controversial "shoot-to-kill" comments made by senior police personnel must not be allowed to engender a culture within the Police Service which sees police officers placing themselves above the law.
Corruption, which is currently rife at many of our police stations, must also be addressed and stamped out as a matter of urgency, and the establishment of the civilian secretariat will assist in this regard by adding more muscle to the Independent Police Investigative Directorate.
In addition, the civilian secretariat has the very important role of advising and supporting the Minister of Police in the exercise of his powers and functions, and with seasoned professionals assuming the seats of the secretariat's three chief directors, we expect an overall improvement in policing services within South Africa. The IFP fully supports the Bill. I thank you. [Applause.]
Chairperson, the ACDP supports this Bill, as the secretariat will function independently of the Police Service and report directly to the Minister. This is unlike the current Secretariat for Safety and Security, which is regulated in terms of the South African Police Service Act, the Saps Act.
As one of the functions of the civilian secretariat is to monitor the performance of the Police Service, I hereby request that the performance of the police at the Hillbrow Police Station be prioritised and, specifically, that the secretariat looks at the way the police deal with drug trafficking in the area. The secretariat should also review the policy that restricts police officers' responsibilities to their prescribed areas of jurisdiction.
The ACDP believes that the police should be empowered to arrest criminals throughout the country so that they do not have a place to hide. What is reported to have happened in Hillbrow a few days ago, where Hillbrow police officers arrested police officers from Johannesburg while they were trying to arrest drug dealers is totally unacceptable and should not be allowed to happen again.
The Police Service should co-operate in order to stamp out crime throughout the country. I thank you.
Agb Voorsitter, ek wil vir die agb Chikunga s dat Mafekeng 'n bietjie lank gelede was. Die ANC behoort nie so te sukkel om wetgewing deur te kry nie. Dis al bietjie langer as tien jaar.
Agb Voorsitter, die VF Plus ondersteun hierdie wetgewing en die wetsontwerp, maar ek wil vir die agb Minister s dat dit een ding is om iets in die Wetboek te h, maar dat dit 'n ander ding is as dit by die praktyk kom. Kom ons vat die aspek wat lui dat die sekretariaat die agb Minister sal adviseer. Ek wil egter vir die agb Minister s dat daardie advies eers werklik kragtig sal word as hy daardie advies volg. Ek wil ongelukkig vir die agb Minister s dat, as ek so in die algemeen kyk, dit nie altyd lyk of die agb Minister na die advies luister nie.
So, ek wil 'n beroep op die agb Minister doen. As hy die advies kry, moet hy daardie advies volg, want die advies is gewoonlik om die Suid-Afrikaanse Polisiediens te verbeter. Dan sal hierdie wetsontwerp 'n groot sukses wees. Ek dank u. (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)
[Mr P J GROENEWALD: Hon Chairperson, I want to tell the hon Chikunga that it has been a while since Mafekeng. The ANC should not be struggling like this to get a piece of legislation accepted. It is a tad longer than ten years already.
Hon Chairperson, the FF Plus supports this legislation and this Bill, but I want to tell the hon Minister that it is one thing to place something on the Statute Book, but that it is quite different when it comes to the practice of implementation. Let us take the aspect that says that the secretariat will advise the hon Minister. I, however, want to tell the hon Minister that this advice will really only be powerful if he follows it. Unfortunately I have to tell the hon Minister that, from a general perspective, it does not always seem as if the hon Minister is listening to this advice.
I therefore want to make an appeal to the hon Minister. If he receives advice he has to follow that advice, because the advice is usually intended to improve the South African Police Service. Then this Bill will be a huge success. I thank you.]
Chair, this Bill is obviously long overdue, since the South African Police Service Act predates the Constitution. For that reason it is much appreciated. Civilian oversight is an inherent feature most especially of the Police Service.
The foresight to have the secretariat reporting directly to the Minister is a wise decision. We look forward to a Police Service that is accountable to its civilians for its actions and hope that the secretariat will be fearless in executing its evaluation and monitoring role over the Police Service. The UCDP accepts the Bill. Thank you. [Applause.]
Chairperson, the ANC's 2009 election manifesto was very clear about its intentions in the fight against crime and corruption, and listed this as one of its five priority areas for the period through to 2014. It said the following, and I want to quote the following two paragraphs: firstly, "our fight against crime will be a key priority to ensure safer and more secure communities"; and, secondly, "crime is a major national challenge, and the fight against crime and corruption needs to be stepped up".
The Bill which we are debating today helps strengthen the fight against crime through the creation of a truly independent civilian secretariat. Currently, the secretariat is regulated in terms of the South African Police Service Act. Section 2 of Act 68 of 1995 will therefore be repealed. To further enhance its independence, the civilian secretariat will be financed from monies appropriated by Parliament. The civilian secretariat will play an important role in monitoring the performance of the SA Police Service and the utilisation of the budget by the Police Service.
Each province, through the MEC, will be required to constitute a provincial secretariat. Until now, this has not been a requirement; it has been a choice of provinces. And, in fact, at the moment, only two provincial secretariats exist. This Bill requires that a provincial secretariat be established in every province within 18 months of the enactment of this Act.
The Bill states that the head of the provincial secretariat may not be a member or a former member of the SA Police Service. The reason for this is to further strengthen the independence of the provincial secretariats - the same as for the civilian secretariat.
The term of office of a provincial secretariat is five years, which may be renewed for one additional term only. The functions of the provincial secretariats include the monitoring and evaluation of the implementation of policing polices and the evaluation and monitoring of police conduct in each province. The provincial secretariats will be required to submit reports to the MECs, the heads of the provincial departments and the secretaries.
Although the provincial secretariats are appointed by the relevant MECs, in consultation with the Minister of Police, they are not independent institutions. They are required to work closely with the secretaries and meet on a quarterly basis and ensure that there is alignment between the provincial secretariats and the secretary in terms of annual strategic and performance plans.
They also need to discuss the performance of the police in the provinces to identify best practices, detect any failures and recommend steps to be taken to prevent or correct such failures. Where a provincial secretariat is not able to perform its functions properly or cannot fulfil its obligations in terms of the Bill, the Minister, after consultation with the relevant MEC, may instruct the civilian secretariat to intervene in the affairs of a provincial secretariat. These measures will help to ensure that we don't allow a situation to develop in which provincial secretariats become dysfunctional and there is no mechanism for intervention.
One of the important aspects of this Bill is that it ensures co-operation between the civilian secretariat and the recently passed Independent Police Investigative Directorate Bill, IPID. In particular, the civilian secretariat will be responsible for monitoring the implementation by the SA Police Service of recommendations which are made by IPID. It will have to provide the Minister with regular reports on the steps taken by the SAPS to ensure compliance. For the first time we will have a situation in which recommendations of IPID, or the directorate of the SAPS, are monitored, but, more importantly, the SAPS will now be held accountable. We expect the SA Police Service to provide full co-operation in this regard.
Furthermore, the Bill requires that the SA Police Service provides its full co-operation to the civilian secretariat and, where required, to the provincial secretariats. This includes providing the civilian secretariat with the information it will need to be able to effectively perform its oversight function of the SA Police Service, as required in this Bill. The SAPS will also be required to provide the civilian secretariat with the necessary information and support so that it can monitor and evaluate the compliance of the SAPS with the Domestic Violence Act of 1998. This is a new function which is being allocated to the civilian secretariat. Until now, this has been a function that was performed by the Independent Complaints Directorate.
Placing the Domestic Violence Act under the watch of the civilian secretariat will ensure that greater importance is placed on compliance by the SAPS with regard to section 18 of the Domestic Violence Act.
We wish the soon-to-be-established civilian secretariat for the Police Service well in its work. The ANC's manifesto says that by working together we can do more. Therefore, by working together, the civilian secretariat, the SA Police Service and the Independent Police Investigative Directorate can do more to bring about a Police Service that is efficient, effective and free of corruption.
As I conclude, I would like to bid farewell to the hon Debbie Schfer, who has played a very constructive and, I think, important role in the work and deliberations of the Portfolio Committee on Police since she came to Parliament last year. I think it's a great pity that the leadership of the DA has decided to move her elsewhere. But maybe they need her capabilities in another portfolio committee. I just want to say that I have always found it strange that as soon as a member of the DA starts to perform well, constructively and effectively, the DA suddenly moves them away. [Interjections.]
As I conclude, perhaps I could also say to Premier Helen Zille of the Western Cape that she said that she didn't have many women to choose from to fill positions in her provincial executive, but I want to say that I think hon Debbie Schfer would have been an ideal candidate to have in your provincial executive. [Applause.] Chairperson, thanks very much. The ANC supports this Bill. [Applause.]
Chairperson, this debate underpins a very fundamental point which I think we need to note, that when we talk about policing in South Africa, we still talk about community policing. That's the orientation, that's the philosophical outlook, and we are committed to that.
I will take advice, hon Groenewald, if it is sound advice. I can promise you that. If I see that the advice is not going to help, I don't think I'm going to agree and take that advice. Thanks for your point. I take your point.
Tshangisa, ngiyakuzwa baba, kulokhu okushoyo. [Tshangisa, I understand what you are saying.]
We have emphasised the point of strengthening the secretariats in the provinces. Regarding what the Rev Meshoe raised, I want to say that Gauteng has a new police commissioner, Lieutenant ...
... uzokhwela phezu kwakhe ... [ ... he will deal with him ...]
... because he must respond to some of these things but, beyond that, policy matters will be taken care of, as we raised earlier with you.
Nongalo, u "Shoot to Kill" - usehambile, oh nanguya akakahambi- cha awukho u "Shoot to Kill" Baba, yinto yamaphepha le, ungabalaleli laba bantu bakhuluma kakhulu; ngakho-ke ungahambi nabo. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[Nongalo, the hon member who spoke about "Shoot to Kill"" has gone - oh, there he is. There is no instruction such as "Shoot to Kill", hon member. That is something to do with the media. Do not listen to the media because they are talkative, so do not believe them.]
We do not have that; there is no such policy as "Shoot to Kill". In conclusion, thank you members of the portfolio committee. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Bill read a second time.