Madam Chairperson, the ACDP has understood the purpose of the amendments as being primarily to align existing legislation with the new education dispensation that came about when the former department of education was split into the Departments of Basic Education and Higher Education and Training. We welcome efforts to create coherence in the Adult Education and FET systems and hope that amendments addressing the appointment of educators will facilitate greater stability and that this will impact positively on the adult education success rate in future.
Concerns do however remain with regard to clauses which could have the effect of isolating South African higher education from the rest of the world, and of unreasonably impacting on the relationship between local and international providers of higher education, to the detriment of South Africans.
The ACDP fully supports the department's commitment to protecting South African students from questionable providers, substandard qualifications, and misleading practices. However, in our opinion, this can be addressed successfully using existing laws and does not require further restrictions.
The rigorous process in place for overseas higher education providers who wish to provide higher education in this country does limit the activities of low quality or unscrupulous providers, both local and foreign, but it also discourages the presence of high-quality providers.
The ACDP will support these Bills, but appeals to the Minister to closely monitor and consider possible amendments to make sure we are not preventing good quality, legitimate providers from operating within our country.
We also wish this department every success in the challenging days and years ahead. Thank you.
USIHLALO WENDLU (Nkk M N Oliphant): Malungu ahloniphekile sengizonibiza ngamagama ngoba anivumi ukuthula futhi lowo engizombiza ngegama uzoma ngomlenze owodwa kuze kuphume le Ndlu. [Uhleko.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Hon members, I will be forced to call you by your names now because you do not want to keep quiet and the one whose name I will call out should stand on one foot until the House adjourns. [Laughter.]]
Chairperson, hon Ministers and Deputy Ministers, hon Members of Parliament, I greet you all. Firstly, let me comment on the technical amendments that have been proposed by the Minister and the Department of Higher Education and Training. As the portfolio committee, we have discussed the amendments and we have all agreed on them.
Ngqongqoshe angiphinde ngibonge ukuthi uhulumeni okhona oholwa nguKhongolose lapha eNingizimu Afrika, ubone kufanele ukuthi ama-Setas noma konke okuphathelene nokuthuthukiswa kwamakhono akubuyise phansi koMnyango wakho weMfundo ePhakeme kanye nokuQeqesha. Njengoba ezeMfundo sezibekwe phambili zaba ngezinye zezinto thina njengeNingizimu Afrika okufanele ukuthi sizibeke phambili sazi ukuthi ziphezulu eqhulwini. Ngalokho-ke siyazi futhi siyabona ukuthi eMnyangweni wakho indaba yama-Seta ithathelwa phezulu; sivela engqungutheleni lapho sibonile umhlahlandlela wokuthi ama- Seta azosebenza kahle kangakani ukuze akwazi ukubhekana nemibuzo esibhekene nayo njengesizwe mayelana nokuswelakala kwamakhono eNingizimu Afrika. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[Hon Minister, let me thank the current South African ANC-led government again for putting the Setas or everything that has to do with skills development under your department, the Department of Higher Education and Training, as education is one of the key priorities which we, as South Africans, need to deal with seriously. In that way, we realise that in your department, the issue of the Setas is taken seriously as we just returned from a conference where we have seen Setas' guidelines that are an indication of the manner in which Setas will operate to address the skills shortage, which is our main concern as South Africans.]
Really, we need to commend our ANC-led government for that. When we were debating the issues concerning the technical amendments that had been made, in our portfolio committee meeting, one of the hottest debates that we had was around the whole issue of an educator. We debated on how to define an educator. Who do we call an educator? Can anybody just stand in front of learners, impart knowledge and be called an educator? Will we then be proud to say that that person is an educator?
That was a hot debate and we felt that, as the ANC - since we have prioritised education - we need to explain the kind of educator we envisage for this country. Minister, through your Department, we need to ensure that educator training is intensified. As the portfolio committee, we have agreed that it is vital to have, in all the public sectors, appropriately qualified educators that will perform their duties as expected.
However, before we can understand exactly what an educator is, it is important for us, as a country, to understand what kind of education we need. If we don't understand what kind of education we need as a country, it will be difficult for us to define an educator.
Firstly, we must be able to understand the roles of an educator. The United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organisation, Unesco, defines education as a means to empower children and adults alike to become active participants in the transformation of their societies.
It further says that learning should focus on the values, attitudes, and behaviours that enable individuals to learn to live together in a world characterised by diversity and pluralism. Again, education is defined as preparing children and adults for what lies ahead in their lives: a society characterised by development, economic prosperity, political justice, and stability.
The ANC-led government fully agrees with this definition, and we know that when we talk about education, we talk about a life-long process and not merely academic success. Therefore, we as the ANC prioritise education and we want to ensure that we fulfil such definitions in respect of the kind of education system the country envisages.
Once again, it is very important to explain what kind of educator we envisage for this country. The term "educator" can be defined as all those persons who teach or educate other persons, or who provide professional services at any public school, Further Education and Training, FET, institution or departmental office.
The term is open and broad and this is what the ANC envisages in order to ensure that we get quality education through the right kind of people and education system.
Minister, we will support you and ensure that educator training is prioritised in this country. We believe once the educator training is relevant and provides the necessary skills to educators, the national question of skills shortages on any level or in a sector will be addressed in this country.
Ngiyakholwa kakhulu Ngqongqoshe ukuthi iphepha leli esililindele ukuthi liphume, i-Green Paper, uyokwazi ngazo zonke izindlela ukuthi kulona kukwazi ukuphenduleka zonke lezi zinto esesizibalile ngaphezulu. Njengokuthi imfundo yethu lapha eNingizmu Afrika sifisa ime kanjani ukuze wonke umuntu okhiqizwa yimfundo yethu yalapha eMzansi izwe lethu lithuthuke ngaye. Ngaphambi kwakho konke futhi siyafisa ukuthi kwenzeke ukuthi lolu shintsho olungaka olwenzekile engazathi kungaba nendlela yokuthi lufinyelele kubo bonke abantu ababambe iqhaza kwezemfundo, ukuze sikwazi ukubona impumelelo nakho konke okuhlosile ngoshinstho olwenzekile sazi nokuthi kuyaphumelela.
UNGQONGQOSHE WEMFUNDO EPHAKEME KANYE NOKUQEQESHA: Ngiyabonga Sihlalo. Ngicela ukuqale ngibonge kuwo wonke amalungu ngokweseka lezi zichibiyelo esizenza namhlanje kanye nakuwo wonke amaqembu aseka lokhu esikwenzayo. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)
[I really believe that the much anticipated paper - the Green Paper on educator training - will be out soon and that it will be able to address all the concerns that we have already stated above. The above concerns include what we wish our education structure here in South Africa to look like, in order for it to enable everyone who is its product to contribute to the development of this country. And above all, we also wish to see everyone, who is involved in education, accessing this change in order for us to see progress in everything you were aiming to achieve because we also need to know if it is a success.
Thank you, Chairperson. Firstly, I would like to thank all the members for supporting the amendments that we were debating today and all the parties that supported what we were doing today.]
I want to take this opportunity to thank the department for all the work that they have put into these amendments. However, my Marxism tells me that a party like the DA is striving to be the class representative of the propertied classes. If that is what it is trying to do, it is a very bad class representative. I don't understand for a moment how the DA can support ... [Interjections.]
How's the BMW?
I will give you a lift. [Laughter.] I don't understand how the DA, through their representative, could support these three Bills in the portfolio committee this very week, but today somebody else, who represents the DA, is saying that they don't support one of the Bills.
Secondly, through the Chair to hon Ellis, that is why other vanguard parties that represent other classes are better vanguard classes. [Interjections.]
Hon Mike Ellis, on Wednesday you promised in the Chief Whips forum that you will ensure that your members are quiet; otherwise you will be disqualified, as you know. [Laughter.]
Madam Chair, it is not really a point of order. I just want to say that we will behave ourselves as long as the hon Minister behaves himself. When he provokes us, it is very difficult for us not to respond.
The Minister is responding to the issues that we have raised during the debate. Could we give him an ear, please?
Chairperson, I am not misbehaving. I am merely stating facts. Here is another fact: We had an FET summit with the presence of, amongst others, employers. We had a skills summit, again with the presence of the employers, and we all agreed on the necessity for Sector Education and Training Authorities, Setas. Everyone agreed. We said that if we are to improve the functionality of the FET colleges, we need to get the Setas to facilitate the placement of college students and graduates in the workplace and that the Setas are important. The declaration that I have submitted here today, contains exactly that.
None of the employers said that they don't want the Setas. None of the other stakeholders said that, so who are you speaking for? That is the question because they are the stakeholders. You pay the price for not taking the opportunity when we invite you to engage with us. You don't come and therefore you don't understand what is happening out there.
Because we are an activist government that is on the ground, we are able to understand better than you what the people are saying. Also, I am worried that there is complete confusion here in understanding not only the relationship, but also the distinction between the Setas and FET colleges. You cannot close down the Setas and assume FET colleges must do that. They perform two different functions.
Setas are intermediaries and FET colleges deliver programmes. To actually have the link that the DA claims it wants between a college and a workplace, the Setas are important. If Setas have problems, you don't cut them off; you deal with the problems as we are dealing with the problems of the Setas in this Department. We have identified what the problems are and we have a plan in place - not in theory - to deal with this.
We accept the challenge that has been put before us. I must say that I don't understand the opposition to this one Bill or the problem that it was not published in the gazette. All three Bills were not published in the gazette.
Why do you only pick up on one; for a wrong reason? The three of them were not published because they are dealing with technical changes. It, therefore, means that it is a continuation of grandstanding. Even though you are an opposition party, you must be principled in your opposition, rather than being opportunistic. [Applause.] I understand that the opposition will try everything to discredit government. I suppose that is all they are paid to do, but at least they should be principled about it. Don't have this kind of opportunism that doesn't take us anywhere.
Bab' uMpontshane noMam' uVukuza ... [Hon Mpontshane and hon Vukuza ...]
... thank you for your proposals. We will take the issues you are raising seriously. We will continue the debate on the difference between a teacher and an educator.
Kodwa-ke kukhona amanye amagama angasemnandi kahle, asuke asikhumbuze izinsuku ezimbi njengokuthi ungumhloli nje uyabona. Asikhumbuza leziya zinsuku ezindala ababefika kungafanele ... [But there are some titles that are no longer pleasant these days, because they remind us of the bad old days - titles like school inspectors. These titles remind us of the past where these inspectors would just come unannounced ...]
Madam Chair, on a point of order: This must be the longest three minutes in the recorded history of this Parliament. I suspect that the hon Minister's time has expired.
Hon Ellis, there were three minutes that were added and I am looking at the watch and the Minister still has twenty-eight seconds to finish. Even if there was no time allocation, there were 10 minutes and five seconds left for this debate. As the Chairperson, I have the discretion to add minutes as and when I like. [Applause.]
Njengoba eshilo-ke amanye amalungu, siyabonga ukuthi sizosebenzisana kule ndima engelula kodwa ngokubambisana sizokwazi ukwenza zonke izinto esizifunayo. [As the other members have already said, I am grateful that we are going to work together on this task which is not so easy though, but with co-operation we will be able to do all the things that we want to do.]
Hon Ellis, I feel sorry for you because you are feeling ... [Interjections.] I don't even know what words to use. Let me liberate you for now until next time. Thank you. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Higher Education Laws Amendment Bill read a second time.
Skills Development Levies Amendment Bill read a second time.