The alleged corruption at the MDDA, when we got in to office, we found out that the board had appointed independent bodies to investigate the alleged corruption. I am not sure if the one that you are referring to is part of the bulk. What I can safely say to you is that, the board is currently busy addressing findings and implementing findings of these independent bodies. What I can go and do is to go and find out about this one that you are speaking about. I am not sure if it is part of the pile that is there. I can write you a written response or you can bring it back as a question and I give you an answer in detail. But the board is busy dealing with corruption that is at their table.
Deputy Minister, I heard you mentioning all the provinces, except Limpopo. I just want to know that when are you going to escalate it to Limpopo province? Thank you very much.
I gave some. In Limpopo for example, we are busy running a project with BaLobedu to see the
possibility of creating a community radio station. In the Northern Cape, we have sent a team which is looking into the possibility of a Khoi community radio station. The one that I mentioned, I just flag shipped but it is not that they are the only ones.
Thank you Deputy Minister. Allow me to take this opportunity to thank the Deputy Minister in the President, Siweya. Thank you availing yourself to answer questions in the NCOP. [Applause.] I now invite Deputy Minister Mkhize to join us in the podium. [Interjections.] [Applause.] Sorry Deputy Minister, hon Michalakis, why are you standing?
Hon House Chair, on a point of order. May I just express how absolutely glad I am to see you on that chair again. Thank you very much. [Laughter.]
Out of order! Hon Deputy Minister, your first question is number 122 asked by hon Bara.
Question 122:
The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY FOR WOMEN, YOUTH AND PERSONS
WITH DISABILITIES: Hon Chairperson and hon members, just to respond to this question: I would like to say that hon members will recall
that during the Joint Sitting of Parliament on 18 September this year, the President made an announcement of the five-point emergency action plan on ending gender-based violence and femicide. The President committed resources towards the implantation of the National Strategic Plan to the value of R1,1 billion. Immediately thereafter, the National Treasury wrote to nine key departments to request them to identify funds within their budgets to be utilised immediately to implement or fast-tract the emergency action plan.
The second part of the question talks to the action plan itself. So, the action plan towards the effective implementation of one of the five-point plan will be conducted in partnership with NGOs, faith- based organisations, institutions of higher learning, traditional leaders and all other sectors of society such as the men's group that the President has invited to be part of the solution.
Chairperson, maybe I just need to quickly mention the five-point plan that the President talked about without giving details. The first component of this is looking at prevention and what needs to be done. One of the activities is the mass media campaign targeting communities and creating awareness in public spaces, workplaces, schools and so on.
Also the second part, talks about strengthening the criminal justice system. We all know that we have the Sexual Offences Courts which have to be strengthened and expanded, especially in rural communities.
The third point talks about enhancing legal and regulatory reforms, so as engaging with the judiciary on the role that it can play in ensuring in ensuring successful prosecutions.
The fourth point is to ensure adequate care, support and healing. Hon members will know the trauma and its impact on the survivors. So, this is a critical component which is carried out through the Thuthuzela Care Centres that are in each an every province which we hope to expand from the current 54 to make sure that people get adequate assistance.
The last point, which is the fifth one, is the improvement of the economic power of women which is seen as the fundamental problem why women stay in difficult abusive relationships because they have no adequate resources to choose alternative plans and to take care of their lives and children. Thank you.
Hon Deputy Minister, my challenge in your response is that by implication it says that before the Joint Sitting that the President called, there was no budget set aside for gender-based violence. That is what it says.
Secondly, a Gender-Based Violence and Femicide Summit, was held in 2018 and that is where the plan came from that was supposed to be implemented by the department, yet the department does not have the budget to do so. In the current situation where women are under siege and where gender-based violence is so rampant: How did it come to the point where there is no budget set aside to deal with that scourge and that violence or aggression against women and children? Thank you, Chair.
The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY FOR WOMEN, YOUTH AND PERSONS
WITH DISABILITIES: Hon Chairperson and hon members, I would really invite each and every one of us to familiarise themselves with work which is done on a daily basis. When I talk about the police, they are the first line of entry for victims of violence. So, it is inaccurate to say since the gender summit, work was done even long before the gender summit. The Thuthuzela Care Centres are much older than the gender summit. The national prosecuting courts are much older, so work has been continuing over the years. However, I think
what the President has done is to really give this process the seriousness; the political and moral authority so as to ensure that it is given the attention it deserves. But also to say that there was no budget maybe again I was not clear enough.
When Treasury wrote to key departments, is departments that were already sitting with the budget. The Thuthuzela Care Centres are run by the Department of Health because doctors and surgeons have to examine people. The Department of Social Development has to make sure that social workers write reports. Trauma counselling is also done under that department and some are employed by the police. So these departments have been having this budget. That is what is called you cut the fat where you think is the any more money that we can take from you and put in the kitty for what the President has referred to as a national crisis.
I hope the hon member is clear that it will be inaccurate for us to leave this House thinking that nothing was being or there was no budget. It was budgeted for, sitting in different corners, but the emphasis now is that we work in a co-ordinated, coherent manner and in the seamless way so as to leave nothing to chance. Thank you, hon Chairperson.
Hon Chairperson and hon Deputy Minister, thank you for the answers that you have given. I just want to check other collaborative measures does the department have with other government departments to ensure that we wage a concerted battle against gender-based violence? I know that there has been funding. Police stations have money to buy kits as part of the investigations. The Justice, Crime Prevention and Security Cluster have budget for instance to deal with cases related to family courts and others. You have actually mentioned that. However, I just wanted to check as to what collaboration is there? If you can provide us with some details.
The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY FOR WOMEN, YOUTH AND PERSONS
WITH DISABILITIES: Hon Chairperson and hon members, thank you hon member, the Department of Social Development was amongst the first departments to contribute towards the gender-based violence command centre or the centres which are very, very important. They also now collaborate with the telecoms where they have a 24 hour hotline with an emergency tactical response team. We also collaborate with the Department of Social Development when it comes to the resourcing and management of shelters which are quite critical when one has to curb this problem or especially when it comes to prevention. Before a woman is attacked, it becomes important to have these shelters so
that they could exit and go and occupy different spaces away from their potential attackers.
With regard to the Thuthuzela Care Centres, which are basically managed by the entity of the Justice and Correctional Services Department which is the National Prosecuting Authority, NPA, but we collaborate with quite a number of departments and even civil society. They play a major role in assisting survivors to come out and report or support families where you know there is a casualty maybe a woman has been killed or a child has disappeared. So, they help them even during the court proceedings to ensure that people do not withdraw cases because they find it difficult to present their cases to our police stations or sometime cases stay in the system for too long.
Also with the Department of Public Works, unused state buildings now are being identified and reprioritised and configured as shelters. Those are just some of the department's that we are collaborating with in brief to strengthen the programme of curbing gender-based violence. Thank you.
Hon Chair and hon Deputy Minister, I just want to check in terms of the levels of engagement between government and
civil society organisations, especially those that are community- based to ensure that we fully realise our objectives for a national strategy on gender-based violence? Thanks.
The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY FOR WOMEN, YOUTH AND PERSONS
WITH DISABILITIES: Hon Chairperson and hon members, civil society organisations play a major role in this area. I am sure hon members will agree when I say; when it comes to awareness they are the first ones to speak out about what is happening in the different communities. Also they are very strong in terms of mobilising community structures to come together to defend the survivors.
It is NGOs, but also the faith-based organisations. We have seen more and more of them standing up, and sometimes even using formal religious services to actually have young people leading and talking about the scourge of gender-based violence.
The National Strategic Plan, NSP, and the National Steering Strategy Framework are really being developed in partnership with civil society. The steering committee sits and civil society organisations play a critical role. They are part of the National Strategic Plan. They have been part of the consultations being supported of course
by our own officials and some elements within the Presidency who have come forward to support the process.
At the end we hope with the resources that will be made available that will capacitate even more civil society structures to work in this area. We encourage whenever we are in rural communities make a call for more local people like even under the traditional leaders and tribal authorities that it is important to have civil society groups working in partnership with communities to tackle this problem.
Of late we have seen even university-based initiatives doing research on this, giving us more information on perpetrators. Generally assisting us to understand where we are and giving us options of how to approach this problem and be able to see the results much faster or just to curb the escalation that we have seen over the past few months. Thank you.
House Chairperson and hon Minister, here in South Africa there is no political will to fight gender-based violence. Those with monetary power to fund such programmes keep on turning a blind eye to such crimes. That is why perpetrators of gender-based violence keep on repeating the same crimes over and over again.
Police stations are not well-equipped to deal with such crimes. There are no funded shelters to accommodate victims of gender-based violence.
In your own Cabinet meetings don't you see the importance of dealing with such a bloated executive, taking the budget and funding such programmes towards gender-based violence or even identifying departments such as the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation which are also taking the chunk of the budget to fund these programmes in this country? This remains a song over and over to the Republic of South African government, but nothing is being done. It remains a talk show.
The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY FOR WOMEN, YOUTH AND PERSONS
WITH DISABILITIES: Hon Chairperson and hon members, I am sure the hon member will agree with me that the debate we saw recently when the President and leaders of all parties in Parliament were speaking on the matter, I came out convinced that if we work together, we can overcome the scourge that we are facing. There is not even a single representative of any of the parties whom I doubted their bona fides in terms of condemning this social ill that we are faced with. So, hon member I think we have to as public representatives continue to give confidence to the people of South Africa. Just based on that
debate where all hon members took a clear position that at least we have the kind of leadership which is in agreement on one thing that women have a right to be protected within the Constitution to be safe and to feel safe and to freely walk around without fear of intimidation or any form of sexual harassment.
With regard to the budget and the question of resources, I think there is this process led by the Treasury now to say let us strengthen all our entities which are dealing with this. I have confidence that that is going to strengthen all people who are involved with this and begin to send a clear message to perpetrators that enough is enough as women of South Africa have said.
I know hon member that there has been one concern. The question of sentencing and the question of giving bail to perpetrators and also the delay for women in ensuring that they get justice. So, those are some of the things that we are looking at which I hope once the entities like the police and the magistrate courts are strengthened and they are trained and retrained properly, we will begin to see the drop of the problem. But also the work of that is being done under prevention is very, very important to help communities to be vigilant and to be able to report timeously because one of the things we have seen with most cases people speak after the effect
that we knew this was happening. It is either they will talk when a woman has died with a protection order in her hands or when a woman has disappeared or a child has disappeared. However we hope with more resources and more people committing to stop this and us as public representatives of course being more vigilant, using every opportunity to speak out on this matter. Thank you, Chairperson.
Question 134:
The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY FOR WOMEN, YOUTH AND PERSONS
WITH DISABILITIES: House Chairperson, as you might be aware hon members that the democratic government really inherited inhuman socioeconomic disparities from our difficult past and we always say the legacy is still with us. Over the past 25 years, government has made great legislative and policy strides, in closing the gab between rural township and urban areas. With regard to persons with disabilities, the implementation matrix of the White Paper on the rights of persons with disabilities among others, it addresses early childhood development matters to ensure affirmative steps that, affirmative steps are taken to improve the facilities, centres and ensure that corrective measures are taken timeously, but also the socioeconomic rights of persons with disabilities are key to the development agenda of the country. Such rights are protected by Chapter 2, section 9 of the Constitution, responding to the needs of
persons with disabilities in a human rights and developmental context requires first and for most that we uphold their right to be protected from discrimination on the basis of disability and that their right to equality be protected.
Without going through everything that I can say on this matter, also you know South Africa adopted the United Nation sustainable development goals, which really has shown us that nobody should be left behind. So the question on the status of centres in rural areas is very, very important in terms of the UN sustainable development goals. We have to start from those who are far away from access and make sure that we strengthen them, we consolidate those centres, and we know that they don't even have access to economic employment opportunities but I fully accept the issue that hon member is raising, all what we have to do is to start from the rural areas, the townships, the informal settlements and make sure that the rights there are realised. Where there economic opportunities, they are not far from them. Thank you.
House Chairperson, thank you Deputy Minister, DM, for your response. Has the ministry engaged with the various government departments especially the Department of Social Development to ensure that they prioritise the upgrading of the facilities
disability centres in the rural areas and the townships? I thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY FOR WOMEN, YOUTH AND PERSONS
WITH DISABILITIES: Hon member, we have a task team between the two departments, which continuously is working on all the rights that are protected in terms of the Constitution and the White Paper on the rights of persons with disabilities, but of course as I have responded to the previous question all what we have to do in all the deliberations is to pay particular attention to those who are not in our golden cities where everybody walks around and talk to them on a daily basis but especially people who have not had access.
Hon members we are fully aware that we have serious challenges in rural communities when it comes to disabilities because even our education system by the time they get to universities where there are special gadgets that help them whatever aids they require, in rural communities people with disabilities would have dropped out of the system. So those are some of challenges we grappling with, the campaigns we want our mass media to help with. To encourage people to take children to school as I have said that now that early child development is compulsory, so that they are identified quiet early. They are screened during the first three years and also that those
who need or maybe who can be assisted with the minimal remedial measures, to be able to hear, to see, to walk around or to exercise their communication abilities, so there is a lot more which we need to do in partnership of course with our tribal authorities, to deal with this problem of says not to be seen to be neglecting our care centres in rural areas. Thank you.
Thank Deputy Minister, DM, firstly I would like to apologise to hon Lehihi, because there was a note that was sent in to me, and 134 ... [Inaudible] so I was saying that note is the one that is going to ask the question. So... can I finish?
IsiZulu:
Lungu elihloniphekile Lehihi ungizwile angithi. Bengicela uxolo ngesizathu sokuthi kube nencwajana efikile. Ama-134 mabili ngakho ke bengicabanga ukuthi bakhuluma ngaleyo kanti bakhuluma ngenye.
English:
There was a note that was put on the table. Can you ask the Deputy Minister the question please? Follow up question, darling.
Setswana:
Ke rata go tlhagisa gore se se buiwang ke Tona se fapane le nnete, le gore ke boitemokanyi fela. Nnete ke gore batho ba rona kwa ba nnang teng ba tshela ka thata mo go ma?we. Tona, Bokone Bophirima e na le madirelo a le mantsi a batho ba ba nang le dikgwetlho. Mafelo ano ga a kgathalelwe ke lefapha la gago. Dikai tse ke nang le tsona ke Reatlegile Disability Centre, Tshedimosetso Disability Centre le Rulaganyang Disability Centre.
Tona, a o ka netefatsa Ntlo eno gore pele ga ngwaga wa 2019 o fela, o tla ipha nako ya go etela mafelo a ke a umakileng, le go netefatsa gore ditirelo di fitlhelela mafelo ao gore a kgone go direla batho ba rona se se ba tshwanetseng? Ke a leboga Modulasetilo.
The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY FOR WOMEN, YOUTH AND PERSONS
WITH DISABILITIES: Hon House Chairperson, hon members I would just like to assure the hon member that what I am presenting before this august House is a really serious commitment. I represent the government department; it is not a talk show. So with regard to the centres that the hon member has referred to, we have officials who are spread all over there, they have noted the names, we will definitely visit them. Actually at North West Province we have even approached the women leaders of the chiefs and sons, whose sons are also chiefs. To assist us in building the configured department, to
look on its entirety with them, so we will certainly visit while the task team is working with officials, we will continue to visit centres especially in rural areas, also as part of expansion we will be looking for more spaces whereby we can ensure that a lot more is being done. For instance, when we compare with big cities, there are factories where they are set aside and they are run by persons with disabilities. In rural areas we are hoping that there will be even walk in centres, so that people can walk in per day and acquire basic skills and gradually be given the set aside for opportunities. Also through this district development model which has been launched by Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs, CoGTA, we are hoping that it will help us even more to scan what exist from these disability centres to the Thuthuzela centres and virtually all the key factors that we require for us to realise the rights of persons with disabilities.
IsiXhosa:
Sekela Sihlalo, ngomhla we-10 kweyoMsintsi kulo nyaka sikuwo, uMphathiswa weSebe lezeMpilo uGqirha Zweli Mkhize wayelapha kule Ndlu. Enye yezinto esathi sambuza ngazo, waze naye wazibophelela ukuba isebe lakhe liza kuzimisela kukusebenza nala maziko sithetha ngawo. Kaloku kwaye kwavela, kule Ndlu, umba wokuba kukho iibhedi ezingasasetyenziswayo kwizibhedlela zethu. UGqirha
Mkhize wathi isebe lakhe likulungele ukuba lithethathethane nesebe eli lenu ukuze iibhedi nezinye iimpahla zilungiswe kwaye zivuselelwe ngabachweli abakhubazekileyo ukuze ziphinde zisetyenziswe. Elo nyathelo liya kunika umsebenzi abantu abakhubazekileyo. Ingaba Mphathiswa seniqalile kusini na ukuncokola njengamalungu ekhabhinethi nesebe likaGqirha Mkhize?
The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY FOR WOMEN, YOUTH AND PERSONS
WITH DISABILITIES: House Chairperson, we actually are having bilateral with all the nine key departments, the Department of Health is one of those, including even the Department of Trade and Industry and the Department of Economic Development because we do believe that no one government department can tackle this alone. We are even talking to the private sector with regard to the set asides, where people are exploring different things that they can do with us, so the question is when are we going to see the concrete projects coming out of this. We do believe that within the framework that we have already, it is possible to finalise some quick wings with the key departments like the Department of Health, Education, Trade and Industry, so that persons with disabilities could experience the change in their lives through the co-ordinated integrated framework of government that the Sixth administration is insisting upon.
We know we come from a history where each department could make a contribution even on issues of disabilities but I think we are the point now where we should be able to make some concrete bilaterals with other fellow departments that we can implement within a shorter period of time. Thank you.
House Chairperson, Deputy Minister as you have alluded to the wonderful programme that you want to roll out with regard to people with disabilities, I commend on that and we will be watching with great interest. Your department already has centres and there are very many other centres like the Social transformation for social empowerment, STEEs, which are also doing commendable work in regard to people with disabilities and sheltered environments. What I would like to know from you is on 10 September, the Minister of Health was here answering our question and the question was posed to him in regard to obsolete beds that hospitals are throwing out etcetera, you are about the accident at the Baragwanath Hospital and he was asked whether he would see as way open to have those beds taken to these centres and have them refurbished, so that they could again be used in places like nongovernmental organisations, NGOs or schools and stuff like that. I just want to know, has the Minister of Health engaged with you in this regard, if so what was the outcome, if he has not engaged with you yet, are you ...
Sorry hon member, sorry there is a point of order.
The point of order is that the question was asked in IsiXhosa, exactly the way she is doing, she is now translating the IsiXhosa question into English and there are translation services here, so if people don't understand language...
...alright on the point of order, thank you, I will sit down.
House Chairperson, just on that point of order the hon member indicated now that there are translation services available, I didn't want to get up on this point of order earlier on but since that was raised, the translation services stopped working after five o'clock, I have been checking it, accept for Afrikaans every half an hour. I don't know whether it is because Parliament doesn't have translators after five. I actually think perhaps just to take us forward; that matter be taken up on a higher level that Parliament starts actually investing in multilingualism.
Afrikaans:
... in ons tolkdienste, dat ons minder geld spandeer aan etes en meer geld spandeer aan veeltaligheid. Dankie.
Ok, order, on member the point has been taken, we will do the follow up. Thanks. Continue Mam, have been disturbed by the point order. Are you done? You have already spoken. Are you done?
On point of order which was pointed out that my colleague had already asked the question and as the colleague from DA behind me said that there are no translators, so I wasn't aware of what was being said and to hon Landsman, we are Afrikaans speaking but we would love to have all the translations. Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY FOR WOMEN, YOUTH AND PERSONS
WITH DISABILITIES: House Chairperson, just briefly without repeating what I have said, maybe what is important is to accept that the hon member has made reference to quiet a number of opportunities especially in the hands of private, besides government one, just numerous NGOs, that are involved. We have become aware as a results on the second of November when we launch the disability month, we want to get representatives of all these structures under one roof so that we understand what exist and who is mending it, who stands
to benefit from it. With regard to government departments, there is a framework whereby we must finalised agreements as to what each department will do to contribute in this. We will certainly follow up with the Minister of Health, whom I hope will give instructions to Member of Executive Concil, MEC, in all the provinces and at a local level CoGTA, so that we finalised some agreements, because you know in government without a clear directive you find that it might be a good idea, but there would no implementation. Now that we are aware we will certainly commit the Minister to something specific, based on what he said here, because that is what we are looking for, what already are possibilities, not new grounds which might take forever to implement. Thank you.
Question 105:
The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY FOR WOMEN, YOUTH AND PERSONS
WITH DISABILITIES: I hope I still have Question 105. I am sure the officials are panicking that now she has lost 105. The timeline for the finalisation of the national strategic plan on gender-based violence and femicide was initially set as the end of September. Because the task team was hard at work and many more groups wanted to engage to make a contribution in the national strategic plan on gender violence, we then got an extension till 30 October. So, that is the deadline that has been set. But the task team continues to
engage and any group which will like to contribute have the opportunity till the 30 October this year.
IsiXhosa:
Sihlalo weNdlu umbuzo wam kuMphathiswa umalunga nesicwangciso senkqubo kazwelonke sokuba nenza njani na ukuqinisekisa ukuba kukhona apho kuchazwayo ixesha nexesha ngenkqubela eyenziweyo? Kaloku sifuna ukwazi ngobungakanani benkqubela kubantu abakushishino labucala kwakunye nabemibutho yokuhlala.
The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY FOR WOMEN, YOUTH AND PERSONS
WITH DISABILITIES: I assume the hon member ... I did mention that we have the final date of 30 October for the national strategic plan but also, once that process has been finalised, what will then be important will be to make sure that we begin to put in place implementation mechanisms so that we can hold each other accountable, and have clear leadership on what has been agreed upon as priorities. And when it comes to the question of resources, to also ensure that we do not have challenges in the system whereby people are not able to do what they are supposed to do mainly because of the shortage of resources. As I have said, many of the critical players are not even in government and not public servants
but work has to continue. The challenge which they have had in some instances was the lack of resources but the mobilisation which has taken place through this national strategic plan, has brought together very critical players in this - as I have said - like youth structures, men's structures, LGBT, IQA Plus and faith-based organisations. All these groups are positioning themselves to be held accountable for the role and the contribution they can make in the implementation of the national strategic plan on gender-based violence.
When it comes to government department, the capacitation of the police and their training to ensure successful prosecution and partnership, of course, with social development to monitor closely the Thuthuzela Care Centres, are all the critical priorities that ... monitoring very closely so as to ensure that we work differently, do not to do the things we did yesterday and got bad outcomes in terms of our statistics; but to also do things differently. Unfortunately, hon member, I cannot give you the exact pointers because we're talking about the report which has not been tabled and adopted so that we all know the outcome of the national strategic plan of the gender-based violence, GBV. But we are working on well-known pointers which - as I have said - we have identified and said, in the interim, let's beef them up. Thank you.
Deputy Minister, we have heard you saying that your national strategic plan will be rolled out by the end of October and we are certainly looking forward to seeing that implementation plan come to life and assist the people - women, children and all the vulnerable people in South Africa. However, Deputy Minister, the failure by your department to allocate adequate resources for this purpose places the responsibility on women to speak out against gender-based violence. While the government seems to be developing plans, it appears to be lacking the willpower and ability to implement these plans. How serious is your department in combating gender-based violence if there is no adequate budget or resources for that purpose? Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY FOR WOMEN, YOUTH AND PERSONS
WITH DISABILITIES: Hon Deputy Chairperson and hon members - I think
- in terms of our economic outlook as of today, if Treasury has identified up to R1,6 billion, we think that is a substantial amount during this term for us to begin to work effectively on this. As I have indicated, that's the money which was already allocated. It was not in the Department of Women, but in different departments; and was earmarked for gender-based violence. What I can commit to is that, there is a political will and commitment to leave nothing to chance.
The President has gone to the extent of saying, even those cases which were dropped and not taken forward for prosecution, should be looked at and reinstated because, in some instances, they were dropped because of problems in the system, either with the police or the magistrate court. There were too many bottlenecks. Irrespective of the legislation we have, people were still not moving swiftly to apprehend perpetrators and prosecute them. So, I do believe there is a commitment and seriousness. I don't think once this national strategic plan is finalised and adopted, any department will then relax and not be part of the implementation of whatever will be the pillars that will be agreed upon.
However, we also continue to call upon all public representatives to be really part of the army because this is bigger than government. This is for all of us to be vigilant and watchful, and to step in as soon as we are suspicious even of neglect by our own government departments. Whatever hon members can pick up as likely to be a barrier to what we want to achieve, any intervention, awareness and shouting will assist a lot because this is, for women of South Africa, big; it is causing so much pain and is something which we all wish we had more energy and means to just blow up. But unfortunately, we live in a society where we are driven by resources. However - I think - if we can all commit, we will get
somewhere and will see different results. This is because there is a commitment that we all do things differently.
Deputy Chair, I have a question on 128. I have asked to be excused from this one.
Question 128:
The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY FOR WOMEN, YOUTH AND PERSONS
WITH DISABILITIES: Chairperson, the gender-based violence and femicide national strategic plan, NSP 2020-30 process, which has been addressed earlier, is in line with various international standards. These standards include, but are not limited to, the SADC Protocol on Gender and Development of 2008, the AU Agenda 2063, the Beijing Platform for Action of 1995, the UN Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women, Cedaw, and the UN Sustainable Development Goals on Gender Equality, which is Goal 5. But also - I think - we can include even the UN Conference on the Status of Women which is held annually. Members of Parliament, government, and civil society from South Africa always participate. So, we are working within all those instruments.
And of course, maybe what is important to mention at this point is that we also participate within the multilateral platforms and
contribute. We account and write reports to all these multilateral organisations to talk about the progress we are making, but also domesticate when we come back. This means we'll have a policy and legislation at the national level so that whatever is discussed in terms of those multilateral instruments is implementable here at the local level.
Hon Minister, while I appreciate the efforts that your department have put forward to fight this calamity of killing our children and women, I want to emphasise that we still have room to do more, but we need to work together. I want to say, madam, this issue of gender-based violence is a very sensitive issue and we can't treat it anyhow. We have seen so many plans that government put forward. I can tell you that the plans were put forward before I even had grey hair.
IsiZulu:
Kodwa ngigugile manje, ngakhoke bengifuna ukuthi-ke ma, ngicela leli cebo ulibukele eduze ngoba ...
English:
... it is a hope of those who are affected because of this gender- based violence.
IsiZulu:
Owakho umsebenzi ukulibukela eduze. Okwesibili, bengingafisa Ngqonqoshe ukuthi uthi fahla fahla ngokuthi leli-cebo uzokwenza kanjani ukuthi lingagcini selixhashazwa, ligcina seliyindawo lapho abantu bezicebisa khona ngalo ngoba kunabantu abasemakhaya abahluphekile abafisa ukulibona lisebenza futhi lisebenza kubo ngqo. Ngiyathokoza Ngqongqoshe.
English:
The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY FOR WOMEN, YOUTH AND PERSONS
WITH DISABILITIES: Hon Chairperson and hon members, I really fully agree with the hon member about the seriousness of the scourge of the killing of women and children in our country. Also, the hon member is raising something which we are all reflecting upon in terms of saying, if you look at when the Domestic Violence Act was passed and why it has not been effective, looking at our Constitution which is the best and why the rights of women, girls and children were not protected based on just that, and so many commitments we have made - the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child - it is a big question mark. But then, what we are trying to do is to really not look much at what didn't work yesterday. The question is to move faster in terms of new possibilities.
Hon members will remember that there was a time when women would go to a local police station and the police there would not even apprehend the man if the man was threatening the wife. They would think that there was something wrong with you culturally. How do you report your own husband? So, we come from that difficult history developmentally, where we couldn't even separate the rights and say, we could not affirm culture where people's rights were violated, and it took almost a decade. Civil society organisations were raising this issue continuously and saying, we did go to the police station but the police would not even come. Instead, they would counsel you and show you that something was not right. But - I think - we have come a long way.
That's why I said maybe we need to move forward now that there has been a clear message that police stations must now be experienced by women as environments conducive for opening cases which must be accurately recorded; and files sent accurately to relevant magistrate offices so that we, the people of South Africa, begin to see the criminal justice system differently.
Even our Thuthuzela Centres ... we come from an era where sometimes, when you go to a centre, you'd see that there was supposed to be a social worker, but maybe the social worker was not there. So, the
resources were inadequate. But where we are today, with regard to the last part of the question, I am glad that we are talking about this when government has put all sorts of mechanisms against corruption.
We will look at the proposal of the national Interim Steering Committee on Gender-based Violence and Femicide and see what they propose in the national strategic plan. But people are hoping that it is not going to be an investment in people's jobs and utilising resources on employing more people. Hopefully, it will be a secretariat that will just monitor that the work is being done properly and timeously with success. Of course, there are all sorts of systems that have been put in place against any form of corruption in government. There'll also be vigilance in terms of ensuring that the resources go towards enabling the survivors rather than many more people who might benefit without really contributing directly to survivors of these crimes.
So, we are all together in saying, enough is enough; and it cannot be business as usual. We have to do things differently and there is that commitment from all of us who are involved that, how we acted yesterday, won't work today if we want drastic results.
The President has even put more pressure by talking about the national crisis that calls for emergency measures and not what one can do under normal circumstances.
I want to raise a point of order, Chairperson. I just want to raise the matter that this is really ... with deep concern, I am worried that we had a joint sitting called by the President on the subject and today here in our institution half of the members of the governing party are not here, when the Minister is reporting on this important issue. Thank you.
Thanks, hon member. The point has been taken. I think there are Whips here then they are going to deal with that. Hon Modise!
The Deputy Minister in the Presidency ...
Setswana:
... wa Bomme, Ba?a le Batho ba ba Tshelang ka Bogole, ke lebogela dikarabo tse o re fileng tsona. Di bontsha gore o e tshwere ka fa bogaleng mme.
English:
There are a number of international agreed norms and standards which South Africa is part of it. On ending of violence against women, I just want to check with you, those various norms and standards like 1993 World Conference on human Rights, Vienna Declaration and Program of Action and 1993 Declaration on Elimination of Violence against Women, to what extend which South Africa is complying with these various international instruments? Thank you, Chair.
The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY FOR WOMEN, YOUTH AND PERSONS WITH DISABILITIES: Hon member ...
Setswana:
... e kete nka bua ka Sesotho le nna, o tla nkutlwa?
English:
I fully agree that the question you are putting is reminding us of all the commitments we have made and you are naming them one by one. But what I want to say is that - you know - because of our history, where we come from, South Africa has been usually amongst the first countries in Africa to be the signatory to all these; we have rectified them, we have also influenced our own legislation because they are all in line with the values enshrined in our Constitution, especially the chapter of the Bill of Rights.
In other words, we have the framework. The question is: Why do we
... like the declaration on the elimination of violence against women of 1993 ... - you know - it's going back to what we are saying that even with the good legislation we are having, there have been barriers in our system that maybe we took too long to remove, so as to ensure that we see the impact, the outcomes of our commitments in all these.
What I can assure hon members ... even our officials, they are ever participating in these as member States, because once the country has signed they become a member State, they go and account on a regular basis.
And the world has been puzzled with the challenges. I mean during the past few weeks we have met with a quite a number of UN representatives; when they look at everything we have done, from legislation to policy, they think South Africa has to teach the world about one, two, three. So, it's that puzzle that we have to deal with t make sure that it's not only the policies and the legislation on paper, but also in our frontline offices, people experience our services to be in line with the commitments we have made in this multilateral organization.
I don't think there's any more that we can look at. We have all that it takes to get it right, even from this multilateral organization. I mean, even the Beijing conference, South Africa led the strongest delegation to influence people on the very same issues of no violence against women and children. And here we are, next year the UN will be celebrating the 30 years since then, but we are having some challenges. I suppose because now we are beyond legislation, we are beyond policies, our real responsibility now is implementation, implementation, implementation; especially the prevention components at community levels, that we must all commit to do, in our neighbourhoods to make sure that we don't normalise the situation where people will say: Ya [Yes] they are friends. Who knew that this person was last seen in this house but they kept quiet for years, without even anonymously using social media or whatever hotline to inform the police? So, there are things which calls upon all of us also to do, to report on these cases, to assist the police and to make sure that we don't collude in silence with the perpetrators as though we agree with them. Thank you.
Minister, referring to the killing of women and children, rape and abuse, you mentioned that onus will be placed on rural areas, focusing there to prevent these types of occurrences or these types of events to happen. We are in an agreement that no
person must live in fear, be exposed to or be a victim of brutal attacks, mutilization, torture, rape and murder. What plans does your department have in place to prevent such vulgar threats and attacks against women and children on farms that fall victim to these attacks? And also, what plans do you have in place to assist the victims of these attacks, of these inhumane crimes? According to me very little assistance is given to such victims. Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY FOR WOMEN, YOUTH AND PERSONS
WITH DISABILITIES: Chairperson, we have about 54 Thuthuzela Centres countrywide. They might be far from farming communities but one will have to assist and to create awareness about their existence because sometimes people don't approach them mainly because they don't know what to start.
The Command Centre which was started by social development and now has a support of the telecoms like Vodacom and many companies where there's a 24- hour service, where people can report. It can take cases from anywhere and you can actually ... when I went there I was shocked how efficient those Apps (Applications) are. It can take your location if you report, if you phone. Because my first question was: If I'm at Lusikisiki and I'm under attack, what do I do? How will I come across? They said: No, there's a toll free line and it's
mended by ... you know, you think you're in a bank or something. It's mended by warm bodies, they pick up a phone, they say send us a location; they transfer it to the police. But I don't whether we have created enough awareness. They are even including facilities for persons with disabilities so that they also can be able to access the service.
So, we will continue to monitor the location of Thuthuzela Centres because the idea is that the expansion, they shouldn't be close to each other but rather look where there are gaps and where there are needs. But I still wish hon members can visit the Command Centre in Centurion. We will send all the details here, just to get a feel of how efficient the service has become. Also when you get there you start saying how will MaDlamini communicate? They take care even of language disparities and it's so important, it's a tool for the country which we ought to look at very carefully and support and show that also we create awareness in our constituencies so that people know where to get a service. But we will send contact details through so that members who want to visit could go and ask whatever question because there also openness to improve as they expand. Thank you.
Hon House Chairperson, actually the Deputy Minister has touch on the international forums that South Africa participated in. One of them is the 1995 Beijing Platform for Action that identified specific actions for governments to take to prevent and respond to violence against women and girls. And ending violence against women and children is, therefore, one of the 12 areas of the priority action that we adopted as part of the 1995 Beijing Platform. So, the question, therefore, would be: In with those 12 priority areas, how far are we as South Africa in ending violence against women and children? Thank you very much.
The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY FOR WOMEN, YOUTH AND PERSONS
WITH DISABILITIES: Chairperson and hon members, I'm sure you are fully aware of the configured department? It's the Department of Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities. In this new configuration, for some reasons, children are left with the Departments of Social Development and Basic Education. So, civil society has raised that concern but we do believe that in terms of the framework that is being developed, it will protect all categories of people including children as well. And in terms of awareness the five key points that I mentioned earlier on, automatically children's organisation utilise that; they utilise the
Thuthuzela Centres, they utilise all the facilities, they will benefit as well.
So, I would say we have made progress with regard to creating a conducive framework, but the national statistics that is released by the police annually is pointing to the holes in our system; that irrespective of the framework, the legislative and policy framework you are saying, the statistics remain too high. I would say we have made progress but we have challenges in the system that we have to eradicate as soon as possible because even if you have good policies, if there are too many challenges within your system people won't see the benefits and they won't experience the impact of what we are doing.
So, we are committed at the implementation phase to really work harder to make sure that our people begin to experience our services centres differently. Thank you very much.
Question 124:
[Inaudible.] asked by hon Bara, but on his behalf, hon Boshoff will take the supplementary question. It is question 124, Deputy Minister.
Hon Chair, my understanding is that there has been no arrangement made with the office of the Chief Whip, and in the absence of the Chief Whip there is an Acting Chief Whip who was not alerted of that particular arrangement. Therefore, I would request that the question be left out because there was no arrangement made. Thank you very much.
Order, members!
Hon House Chair, I wrote a note to the Chairperson requesting that hon Boshoff take over hon Bara's question. He unexpectedly had to leave because there was a crisis - it wasn't something planned, and therefore it was not a previously decided decision that he could not be in the House. Thank you.
Thank you, hon member. [Interjections.] But the Whip has spoken.
I'm pleading for indulgence. I just want to check whether hon Gxoyiya is acting chief whip or is it the hon Rayi here in front of me because he speaks to him and he then conveys. It can't be, Chair. [Laughter.]
Order, hon members! Order! Hon members, I think this must come to an end. You all know the order of this House better than me. I am going to allow hon Boshoff to speak, on the explanation that the DA Chief Whip has given right now. Okay, Chief Whip?
I just want to bring it to your attention that we are setting a very dangerous precedence that will not be acceptable in future. We will have trouble with the same precedence that we are setting ourselves. I note that you have made a ruling but I just want you to take note of that fact that there is a dangerous precedence in the House that people can just decide to leave and ignore the Chief Whip in the House.
Thank you, Acting Chief Whip, I hear what you are saying. I do not want to say something and then change it. I said I will allow hon Boshoff but to all of you, it must come to an end. Let us not do it again. You all know that what you are doing is wrong. I do not want to count, I have a long list here, but I cannot say which ones did not go via the Chief whip. So, I will allow the Deputy Minister to answer question 124.
The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY FOR WOMEN, YOUTH AND PERSONS
WITH DISABILITIES: Hon House Chairperson, our approach to persons with disabilities is informed by the White Paper on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities. The White Paper constitutes the national government white policy framework for the advancement of the rights of persons with disabilities.
Measures which are in place across government departments to support the empowerment of persons with disabilities include, amongst others, the following: Extensive reasonable accommodation support in both the basic education as well as post school education and training systems; rehabilitation services at primary, secondary and tertiary level to restore and support independent living; the provision of mobility and communication assistive technology; and the retained work services and retention of workers who are injured on duty.
Measures that have been put in place to remove barriers in the environment include, amongst others: Legislative measures such as the National Building Regulations and Building Standards Act; the Promotion of Equality and Prevention of Unfair Discrimination Act; and the National Land Transport Act; affirmative measures such as the Employment Equity Act; the Preferential Procurement Act; the
Amavulandlela Fund - a special fund administered by the Department of Small Business; and the disability subsidy adjustments to the provisioning of state subsidised houses.
Government also manages factories in partnership with persons with disabilities to ensure their inclusion in the economic system. Minimum norms and standards which aim to protect as well as advance the rights of persons with disabilities, for example, for mental healthcare and residential facilities are all embraced by the government as a whole. Thank you.
Thank you very much, House Chair, for the ruling and giving us the opportunity. Hon Deputy Minister, government has really forsaken people with disabilities, we cannot deny that. The norm is that 3% of people with disabilities should have access to jobs and currently it is only standing at 1,2%.
We really need to grow the public and private partnerships and we need to partner with nongovernmental organisation, NGOs, so that we can get those people with disabilities access to jobs and meaningfully participate in the economy. By doing this we will give them back their dignity - the dignity they deserve.
What I would like to ask of you, Minister, is: What incentives or tax breaks are you willing to give businesses and the private sector to attract people with disabilities? Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY FOR WOMEN, YOUTH AND PERSONS
WITH DISABILITIES: Hon members, depending on the contribution that the private sector wants to make ... I will just give a simple example: We have people who want to manufacture special oils for people with albinism. So, Trade and Industry has incentives and a formula. In our discussion with them they said they have a criterion which people will have to meet to qualify for those incentives and then our people will participate as partners in those activities. It is something new that we are exploring but we have that commitment now from Trade and Industry.
As I have indicated earlier on, I think we come from an era where emphasis was on grants - making people to be dependent on government. More and more clearly now our thinking is that many people with disabilities can function independently with adequate support from the state, and I mentioned also in my original response the fund that is within the small business which is earmarked for persons with disabilities - but a big one for us is the co- operation with Trade and Industry and of course some special entities.
People have come up with proposals that there are functions that our airlines can give to persons with disabilities like cleaning the headsets, pack them and send them back.
We are getting all kinds of proposals and we hope that there will be an uptake of all of these as soon as possible, but certainly the Trade and Industry one is a big one for us since it has special economic zones. How do we then ensure that even the multinationals that come to the country become aware of these special projects that we have for persons with special needs that need assistance and to be empowered so as to function independently.
House Chairperson, thank you to the Deputy Minister for the response. What progress is the public service making in meeting its commitment to protect people with disabilities against unfair discrimination in the recruitment process and also creating a conducive working environment for the people with disabilities that is characterised by fairness and equity in opportunities for career progression? I thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY FOR WOMEN, YOUTH AND PERSONS
WITH DISABILITIES: Hon members, my department has embarked on a process together with the South African Law Reform Commission of
developing a stand alone disability specific legislation so as to promote and protect the rights of persons with disabilities. You will recall that the 2% we have is not only for government offices but even the private sector has not been meeting the targets. Now, if we raise it to a higher percentage in line with the international standards, maybe to 7%, there is no way in which we can reinforce that without a specific legislation.
Unfortunately the report ... we have just started with the sixth administration and we have been given a period of almost three years before the legislation is on the table. So, we hope our officials continue to work harder with the South African Law Reform Commission to get a comprehensive legislation which will enable us to monitor and put punitive measures for those offices, be it public or private, that are not adhering to the said standards. Thank you.
House Chairperson, to the Deputy Minister, according to a Statistics SA survey into persons with disabilities, previously disadvantaged are not able to access much needed assistive devices like wheelchairs, hearing aids etc. This problem extends to children as 500 000 disabled learners do not have access to any schooling or training.
In the area of entrepreneurship, people with disabilities experience lack of equipment and machinery, business networking, they face discrimination and lack access to start up funding etc. Why does your department not have a database that systematically tracks the number people living with disabilities as well as their skills so that they can access employment when that employment becomes available and also the much needed devices that are needed by them? It seems the logical first step in assisting this incredibly vulnerable group. When will your department start a process such as this? Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY FOR WOMEN, YOUTH AND PERSONS
WITH DISABILITIES: Hon members, I think we are four months into office. We are in a process of transferring the division of persons with disabilities from Social Development to the Department of Women, Youth and Person with Disabilities. I assume the Department of Social Development will handover to us data of some kind - I do not know what its status is. The Department of Employment and Labour also has data of some kind which they are supposed to bring to us as well.
The task team is working their budgetary implications. There are warm bodies - staff members - who have to be transferred over and
that work should be finalised as soon as possible because according to the planning teams we are not supposed to go beyond October in terms of transferring entities and work.
We will certainly look at what they hand over and prioritise information that is credible about the circumstances of persons with disabilities. But from what I know from other spheres of government like Education, they also have their own data. There are pockets of data all over the systems, but now that as a department we have been allocated this responsibility the honours is upon us to collate information and assist even those people who are willing to employ persons with disabilities but don't know where find them.
I will admit that at the moment we are in a transitional phase but the White Paper on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities binds all of us to do exactly what you are saying - to give that kind of support and empowerment to persons with disabilities so that they can live a dignified and independent life. Thank you, House Chairperson.
[Inaudible.]
You all said you are enough. I pointed at you and you, and you both said that you were done.
Sorry, House Chair, I thought I was the fourth person noted on question 124, and only three people spoke.
You were the fourth person in question 128. On question 124 I had hon Boshoff, hon Mmola, hon Christians, hon Zandamela and hon Landsman. But because they were five, Zandamela and Landsman both said they were fine. Now they are confusing me by saying that I skipped them.
Okay. I just wanted to find out, House Chair, from the Deputy Minister with regards to question 124 whether there are any plans ... firstly, let us correct the question itself, we do not have people living with disabilities but people with disabilities - a correction on the original question. Secondly, are there any plans to encourage political parties in their lists to also have targets with regard to people with disabilities? I am yet to see the DA with people with disabilities as their MPs and MPLs. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
IsiZulu:
USIHLALO WENDLU (Nk W Ngwenya): Sekela Ngqongqoshe, uyoze usijwayele muntu wabantu.
The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY FOR WOMEN, YOUTH AND PERSONS
WITH DISABILITIES: House Chairperson, I think the reaction in the House, if it was in church, I would say people are saying amen, amen! We are all in agreement that we have to do more - all of us. We really have to do more because there are many people out there who are capable, who can function and add value to our departments and commit but they are just not given an opportunity by us.
So, as soon as this transfer is finalised, as part of an audit, like we did with the gender issue on women, we will look at the representation of youth and representation in all spheres of government and all provinces. We will definitely take a look at the number of persons with disabilities. I believe it is doable. All we have to do is commit to it and do it. Thank you very much.
Question 115:
The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY FOR WOMEN, YOUTH AND PERSONS
WITH DISABILITIES: Chairperson, with regard to Question 115, the department has engaged the Police Service about various aspects of the fight against gender-based violence and femicide including the
shortage of rape kits in police stations, the limited number of trained personnel dealing with gender-based violence and femicide and the need for police stations to be experienced by survivors as caring and respectful. Of course, in this one we are also talking to the investigators because for prosecution to take place cases must be investigated properly by the police.
On the second part of the question, the Minister of Police has publicly committed that he will invest resources. They are already involved with training programmes for the police who are dealing with rape cases and all other forms of gender-based violence. Furthermore the Department of Police is also assisting members with statement taking in line with relevant legislation, empowering them with skills to understand trauma and its effects and refer people to relevant structures within the police stations for counselling and support. This training includes programmes on children and youth at risk, domestic violence and victim empowerment. In addition, now there is also an initiative to train and capacitate female police members who are placed at client service centres on sexual offences for investigators learning programme. Training of police officers, prosecutors and magistrates is amongst rapid response interventions identified and budgeted for in the emergency response plan.
Chairperson, thank you Deputy Minister for your response. Deputy Minister, there are cases of women and children where when they go to police stations to report cases of rape and abuse, there are times where they are turned away or even subjected to humiliating processes. My question is, has government put in place processes to deal decisively with such cases? Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY FOR WOMEN, YOUTH AND PERSONS
WITH DISABILITIES: Chairperson and hon members, I think the President's call for police to review all cases that didn't end up being presented to the courts is a realisation that a lot have been going wrong. The police are in the process of checking all reported cases that are depriving us of real statistics. So far the statistics we get maybe be 80% of the cases. We then work on the basis of 80% and the 20% disappears completely. So the call by the President has helped a lot for police stations to account for each and every reported case as to what happened and what didn't work.
But I must say that when it comes to this kind of work since we have started moving around especially in rural areas, we are learning more about it. In terms of our legislation the doctor has to examine the child. In some instances even doctors don't want to do it because they don't want to go to court one day to defend the case.
Those are some of the barriers in our system. You also here that young people spend six to nine hours waiting to be attended. I am talking about the nine-year-olds where they go to the centres and the centres are not ready to attend them. But in terms of the clarion call that we are on as the whole arm of government we hope that if they are reported there will be consequence management for such officials if people are found to have been refused assistance especially the young victims.
In terms of our legislation the burden of proof is still on a victim rather than the perpetrator having to prove his innocence. We don't know what will ultimately happen with the review of our legislation. But definitely you have seen recently where even young children are expected to testify in the court of law. The risks are big because of trauma and they could be confused by procedures. All these are things that we are looking at in co- operation with the Minister of Justice - looking at different approaches to these cases and without compromising the legalities but assisting younger victims in particular without putting them under pressure which might end up benefiting the perpetrators.
Chairperson, hon Deputy Minister, recently the Minister of Police has committed to Parliament that all police
stations in the country will have rape kits by the previous Monday. It is extremely difficult to prosecute rapists or hold them accountable for their actions without the evidence of the rape kit. This is vital equipment in policing violent crime against women and children. Recently, the DA checked and we identified that various police stations are still without rape kits. We did a few sample checks and they are not limited to this, and I will name a few: Athlone Police Station in the Western Cape, Ravensmead Police Station in the Western Cape, Actonville Police Station in Gauteng, Temba Police Station in Gauteng, Hammanskraal Police Station in Gauteng, Vanderbijlpark Police Station, in Gauteng, Delportshoop Police Station in the Northern Cape and Barkly West Police Station in the Northern Cape. They are all without rape kits. This is a fundamental failure, Deputy Minister. Our police need to be professionalised and capacitated.
However these plans have now failed dismally and the Minister of Police has not come through as promised. In what position do these things leave your department?
The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY FOR WOMEN, YOUTH AND PERSONS
WITH DISABILITIES: Chairperson, hon member, well, my understanding is that the Minister of Police has made an admission that there was
a delay in procurement. We all have since been going to different police stations in the rural areas to check what exist and what does not - the number of cars and do they have communication gadgets. We have been engaging the Minister. So I think it was last month when he said that there was a delay in the procurement. Remember when you want to get these resources in big numbers you have to work in line with the Public Finance Management Act, PFMA, and make sure that there is an open due process. Of course one will have to follow up. A month is more than enough in this issue of gender-based violence and femicide. If there are further delays, then we will have to engage further with the Minister. I know he admitted that there were delays in terms of the procurement process, but there is a commitment and there is a budget for all those. So it is a question of how officials solve this problem as soon as possible.
Thank you very much, hon Chair. Hon Deputy Minister, the abuse of children in particular entails child trafficking. When we talk about cases of missing children you can't talk about them without mentioning child trafficking. The question that I have is in relation to the progress which the South African government is making in dealing with child trafficking and also how the cases of missing children are prioritised at the level of police station. Thank you very much.
The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY FOR WOMEN, YOUTH AND PERSONS
WITH DISABILITIES: Chairperson, the Department of Social Development which is mandated to oversee the wellbeing of children will hugely benefit from the outcomes of the national strategic plan, NSP, as they are applicable to all forms of violence including human trafficking. As a department we have approached the Department of Transport as they deal with roads and logistics. As they create awareness about roads and logistics safety they have to ensure that they also talk about issues of trafficking of persons and create awareness among their workers. It is a bilateral which we have just started and we hope to hugely benefit from it. When you talk about human trafficking they are trafficked through our official logistic vehicles by people who are aware that a person they are taking has no papers or passport. That is what we are working on with the Department of Transport.
Generally, I think South Africa has been very efficient in tracking young people. Recently, a 15-year-old was recruited to go and train outside, but was caught before leaving the country because of the use of cyber security. I think there is vigilance especially to young people. We have to continue those relationships with the Department of Communications and make sure that they are able to help us track young people who might be at risk of being recruited.
Those who use social media in particular face a big risk. Those from rural areas just get into trucks and find themselves in big cities or in another country. Sometimes they are driven away from their families by poverty or other false information they might hear about better opportunities somewhere. The police and the State Security agencies are all fully aware of the risk that this country has to manage. The Children's Act has been strengthened to ensure that there is effective legislation to this effect. Also, we are the signatory to the Convention on the Rights of the Child. Part of the national plan of action is to protect children from such practices.
Thank you very much, Chair. Deputy Minister, we have just heard that eight police stations do not have rape kits, but it could be many more. I know it is not your duty to provide these stations with the kits, but if we say we are having a problem with procurement this raises alarm bells. I would like to know from you, how you and your department are going to stand in front of a mother or a child and say, I am sorry you cannot be tested because the stations do not have rape kits. Minister, I really don't want to be in your shoes. Please, we are urging you, we are requesting you and we are stamping our feet that together you and your Minister engage with the Minister of Police to ensure that our children, who are the most vulnerable, and our mothers are looked after. Make sure that
these stations are equipped and that the officers in these stations are also properly trained. Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY FOR WOMEN, YOUTH AND PERSONS
WITH DISABILITIES: Thank you very much Chairperson and hon member. I think we are all ashamed of the situation we find ourselves in. This is the country we love and we are proud of it, but what we are talking about really doesn't give us peace of mind. As the hon member has said there's not even a single family which I would say is not affected about what we are talking about - directly or indirectly. I think if this procurement could take longer - the issue of distribution - we have to go back to the Minister of Police and engage him, or maybe begin to ask a number of police stations which have suppliers as to where they are and where they are located and so on. It is something which I don't think today any one of us can say I will be able to explain to the people of South Africa. It is something which we should have done yesterday. So we will follow up closely. We were aware of the delay. We have to commit hon members, we have to step up our efforts all the time and make sure that we don't leave anything to chance. The resourcing of police stations is critical because they are the frontline face of government when it comes to reporting these cases. Thank you. [Applause.]