Hon members, we were disturbed when I asked for the five minutes break. So, now we are going to continue with the sitting but I want to name the members that made us to break [Inaudible.] but not now because I want us to continue with this
sitting. I'll name them after the sitting and the ruling that I've made I'm still standing on that ruling.
House Chairperson, I am not standing to dispute your ruling. You have absolute right to make and to reserve your ruling and to go back to Hansard and to make a ruling here as well. I respect that.
However, House Chairperson, with due respect, in the rule book it does not give you the power to order the Minister not to answer a question; that part needs to be fulfilled by the Minister, otherwise freedom of speech and our role to keep the Minister accountable is being undermined.
So, I respect your ruling. However, I would request that the Minister be ordered to answer the question as per the Rules of the House. Thank you very much.
Hon members, I've made a ruling on this question that we are going to look at Hansard. So, I cannot repeat again what makes us to go out and say let the member repeat the question. The Deputy Minister said: I didn't hear this question. So, what is she going to answer if she didn't hear the question?
[Inaudible.] more than willing to repeat the question because we are here to hold the executive to account. So, if the Minister did not hear, I'm sure the hon member - I can't speak on his behalf - can actually repeat the question slowly so that the Minister can hear. But we have to get an answer from ...
Hon member, can you please sit down because you are taking us back on what we are coming from [Interjections.]
We have to insist that the Minister answers the question, Chairperson. I respect your ruling but I have to insist, as a member who represents the public and holds the executive to account, that the Minister must be afforded the opportunity to answer the question. I have to insist on that. I respect your ruling but I have to insist, representing the public, that the Minister must be given the chance to answer our question. That is what we are here for and I'm sure my hon colleague will repeat the question if the Minister did not hear.
Chairperson, I rise on point of order. In terms of Rule 35 the precedence of the presiding officer has to be respected, as you have made a ruling. Thank you.
Hon Deputy Minister, can we continue with Question 108 please.
Chairperson, whether the integrated monitoring framework has shown any improvements in monitoring of performance of different government departments? If not, what is the position in this regard? If so, what are the relevant details?
The second question says: Whether the framework assists in ensuring that the President is informed of the performance of different government departments? If not, why not? If so, what are the relevant details?
And the answer is no. The integrated monitoring framework has not yet been implemented, it is work in progress. It will be implemented as part of the new Medium Term Strategic Framework, MTSF. This tool will be utilised as part of the measurement tools for the performance of different departments.
The second one [Interjections.]
House Chair, on a point of order, two points of order. First point of order, the hon member next to me used unparliamentary language, telling a member that they must go to hell. I would like him to withdraw that.
The second one [Interjections.]
AN HON MEMBER: You have not called your member to order. Tell your member to respect the Chair.
And you can remember to respect people in general.
On the second point, I would like to know if you are going to call and name all the people who are behaving the way they are behaving at this moment? Because, hon Chair, with all due respect, you are closing down the democratic space for questions and we will follow this up in writing and we'll not leave that this question ... that the Minister was protected by the Chair not to answer the question.
On a point of order, Chair. Hon Mmoiemang was very clear when [Interjections.] don't touch me man, please don't do that. Don't touch me in the media. I will deal with you when you speak.
She's hitting me so I can't talk. But it's fine I'm covered, Chair.
Hon members, I've made a ruling. I said we are continuing [Interjections.] on what?
Hon House Chairperson, my new point of order is I would like to point out why there is order when hon Nyambi is in the chair and not you? When you sit in that chair the House descends every time [Interjections.] it's because you are incompetent, you do not know the rules and you do not respect our democracy. [Interjections.]
I have a duty to represent my constituency by making sure that the executive is held accountable. I intend to that. So, I would request you to ask the Minister to reply to the question that we've asked. Whatever her answer is, we will accept that. But we have to insist that the Minister be allowed to answer our question.
Order, members. I think it's not a point of order what you are saying.
Members, can you please allow the Deputy Minister to do her work? Can you please allow the Deputy Minister to do her work? And allow me to do my work?
The response to Question 108 by Mr Dodovu is that no, the integrated monitoring framework has not yet been implemented, it is work in progress. It will be implemented as part of the new MTSF. This tool will be utilised as part of the measurement tools for the performance of different departments.
The President will sign ... [a different speaker/sound briefly appears] ... work will be used to measure the implementation of these new performance agreements.
The new integrated system will enable the Department of Monitoring and Evaluation working with other core departments and entities especially Stats SA to achieve the following goals:
Track the development impact of government policies, plans and programmes at population level nationally, primarily through evaluations studies but informed by monitoring data.
Track whether the National Development Plan, NDP, is translated into effective service delivery programmes at sub national level, provincial and district levels.
Track progress at the coal phase of service delivery to assist real change and improvement on the lives of citizens.
Develop policy frameworks for monitoring, women, people with disabilities and youth developmental sectors to ensure mainstreaming and tracking implementation thereof.
Enable the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation to triangulate data from different monitoring and evaluation systems as well as external monitoring and evaluation systems to provide a holistic picture of the performance of government and the impact on citizens. Thank you, Chair.
Hon Chair, I want to ask the Deputy Minister if she's quite satisfied that this integrated monitoring system framework indeed helps the entirety of the government to be better coordinated and to help government to immediately address the problems as and when they arrive? Thank you very much.
Chairperson, if you'll remember the old monitoring framework was disjointed. For example, there was no tool to monitor financial and nonfinancial performance in an interlinked way. There was no system to monitor government and direct impact on government programmes to the people. This new system integrates all this into one.
Government will no longer focusing on POA monitoring but rather on a holistic integrated system.
So, the answer is yes. The purpose of monitoring is the routine check of information so as to confirm that progress is occurring against the defined direction in the five-year MTSF.
To ensure the timely interventions take place; the setting of specific milestones to be reached with leading indicators which is key.
The integrated monitoring framework requires that implementing departments develop delivery plans for the outcomes and targets for which they are responsible for.
The plans will articulate that it will be achievable, the impact, the outcome, the targets and the outputs. It will also indicate who is involved, at what level are they involved about and how are they going to achieve their set targets. These outcomes and targets which will be set online will be properly planned for and they will be resourced.
Quarterly assessment by the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation will check if delivery is on track. Where performance gaps are observed and the relevant Cabinet cluster is informed of the remedial actions which will be required to improve on service delivery and performance.
So, therefore, the new tool which is going to be effected after Ministers and Deputy Ministers sign with the President about their performance agreement will assist a great deal. Thank you.
Deputy Minister, one of the key areas of focus of the integrated monitoring framework requires that there should be audited knowledge of interaction between planning, budgeting and implementation. This is to ensure that there are interventions to address problems as they arise. Now, if we have an integrated monitoring framework, how did we get to the point where our
municipalities are at a point of collapse, undetected, when we have a monitoring system in place that was supposed to see that don't get to that point at any given time? Thank you, Chair.
Chair, you would remember in the previous response I said that the difference with the new integrated monitoring framework is that the previous tool of monitoring was disjointed. The new one is integrated because I have said, firstly, there was no tool to monitor financial and nonfinancial performance in a linked way; the new framework provides for that. So, the new framework responds to the three gaps.
Secondly, there was no system to monitor governance and direct impact of government programmes to the people; the new framework addresses that. In the new integrated monitoring framework, previously Ministers and Deputy Ministers did not sign direct performance agreements with the President; something which is being corrected in the new integrated monitoring framework. Thank you, Chair.
Deputy Minister, the establishment of this department, it will not improve service delivery and it is a duplication of what departments are supposed to be doing in the
first place on their own. Is it a correct assessment to say that this ministry was not supposed to be created in the first place and we must do away with it? Thank you.
Which ministry?
[Interjections.] I'm a Deputy Minister in the Presidency; we are responsible for five entities, which one? [Interjections.] Okay, I can answer, Chair. [Interjections.]
Monitoring ...
IsiZulu:
USIHLALO WENDLU (Nk W NGWENYA): Awumuzwanga ukuthi uthini?
English:
I heard him. I understand the question, I can answer. Okay?
Monitoring is a routine check of information so as to confirm progress in various departments.
The Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation remains relevant because as government, when we set targets for ourselves
and the roles which we are supposed to play, it becomes imperative that we assess our performance, we assess our shortfalls and we assess where we are supposed to plan, which is at the core of the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation.
Deputy Chairperson, I'm sure we are going to become very good friends over the next five years. [Laughter.]
Hon Deputy Chairperson, my question to the Deputy Minister is: Deputy Minister, would you agree with me that - it's like earlier on the other matter which you were questioned on - the reason why you were protected was because the Deputy Chairperson actually is protecting the VBS Mutual Bank looters? Thank you. [Laughter.] [Applause.]
I don't agree with you. Actually, I don't agree with you. [Interjections.] [Applause.]
Question 129:
Question 129 asked by Ms M O Mokause, Northern Cape, whether the actions and approach on issues by the Premier of the Northern Cape amount to corruption and hypocrisy; if not, what is the position in this regard; if so, what
are the relevant details? The question concerned is defective and based on misinformation. The company concerned was appointed on 22 January 2019, and the elections were on 8 May 2019. At the time of appointment of that company, the Premier of the Northern Cape was not in government.
The creation of work is the anchor point of the sixth administration. Therefore, any government programme that seeks to create decent work and thereby take our people out of poverty is welcome. However, because in the question there is a notion of corruption and hypocrisy, our view is that if there is allegations and evidence that there is corruption, it must be taken up with the proper agencies which deal with corruption.
House Chairperson, I'm not going to entertain the negative part of the response by the Deputy Minister. I'm going to ask you a follow- up question which I believe that you are going to answer properly in this Council. Deputy Minister, we've listened to the Premier of the Northern Cape when he spoke about detenderisation of a state. We were quite excited that somewhere somehow one of your deployees is speaking sense. Don't you think that it's time or it's a chance of your government in the Northern Cape to have a state-
owned contract company that will actually minimise tenders and corruption within the ANC government?
Thank you. There is nothing wrong with the declaration by the Premier of the Northern Cape to build a capacity of the state through insourcing and create decent work and fighting the triple challenges of unemployment, inequality and poverty. It is also important that even beyond the decision to insource services, government will still continue to procure services from private service providers until capacity is build. We, therefore, expect government to continue with outsourcing and that does not imply hypocrisy or populism.
Chairperson, point of order. I would like to request you, Chairperson, to tell the Deputy Minister that she should not read the question because we already got it. She should just answer. Thank you.
Question 109:
Deputy Minister lets continue with Question 109 that was asked by Mr Ntsube but on his behalf, Mr K Mmoiemang is going to ask the follow up question.
Okay, thank you. The question is whether the Media Development and Diversity Agency, MDDA, is making any progress in creating ... [Interjections.]
What is your point of order Sir?
Thank you Deputy House Chair, on a point of order. You cannot go to the next question when we haven't been allowed to make follow- ups on the previous question. We as the opposition, have the right to ask follow-up questions. You have only allowed the person who asks the original question and not other people. So please allow us to do follow-up questions. I don't have a specific question but you must allow everybody to have a follow-up question if they want to. Please!
Hon member I always do that if your hand is up. But if you didn't raise your hand, I cannot assume that you want to ask a question. Please continue Deputy Minister.
The question is whether the Media Development and Diversity Agency is making any progress in creating an enabling environment for media development and
diversity? If not, why not? If so, what are the relevant details? And, whether any programmes and initiatives that are intended to assist in developing community media and small commercial media which are based in the rural areas and advance gender diversity, especially in commercial media, have been initiated by the MDDA in the past five years?
The reply is that, the MDDA enables the environment for media development through its grant funding capacity development and awareness raising campaigns. Through this, an environment for media development and diversity has been enabled overtime. This is confirmed by an independent study which was commissioned by the MDDA in December 2017. The study confirms that the agency has channelled resources to the community and small commercial sector. This has widened the base of community print and radio in the country. This has contributed immensely in providing media and information to historically disadvantaged communities across provinces. However, MDDA is in the process of developing other communities such as the deaf community as well as other indigenous languages by funding them as special projects.
The second challenge has been the underfunding of the MDDA. This does not allow the MDDA latitude to finance all proposals in the
country. Despite all this, MDDA has and continues to focus on supporting community and small commercial print project owned by women, youth and persons living with disabilities. Yes, the MDDA has projects in various rural communities and the following are some of the projects that have been supported through funding and capacity building over the past five years.
The first one is community print projects such as Rise and Shine Disability Magazine, owned by four disabled women based in Mdantsane in the Eastern Cape. The second one is in Bushbuckridge news based in the Ehlanzeni District Municipality in Mpumalanga. The third one is EzaKwaZulu News, distributed in KwaZulu-Natal. The fourth one is SMME News which focuses on assisting small business development which is based in KwaDukuza Local Municipality in KwaZulu-Natal. The fifth one is the Eastern Cape Women's Magazine based in OR Tambo District Municipality. The sixth one is Siyapagang Newspaper based in Zeerust in the North West province. This is just a few we are naming. Thank you.
Chairperson, let me appreciate the articulation by the Deputy Minister in terms of the support they are giving to the establishment of the community radio stations. My follow up question relates to the intervention and the measures that will be given to
these community radio stations for them to be sustainable. The sustainability part of it is the follow up question and my reason for that is the resolution that you have taken as the ANC in Nasrec that we need to support community broadcasting so that we able to improve and strengthen and address the signal distribution and other challenges in both radio and television services. Thank you Deputy Minister.
The government of South Africa is one of the major funders of the MDDA. It provides funds of more than R31 million grants to the MDDA annually. It return, the MDDA, through a well managed grant management process, distributes or funds this amount to various quality community radio and print projects. Government and the MDDA are also creating the strategic partnerships with the public and the private sector on training which would include equipping them with marketing, advertising and corporate governance skills in order to allow them to be able to generate their own revenue.
Some of these partnerships will be supported with media bulk buying or financial assistance where possible. We have also initiated negotiations with various commercial media institutions as part of this comprehensive support to the community print. We are further
exploring possibilities of all three spheres of government to invest in this community media sector through media bulk buying and advertising. Thank you, Chair.
Deputy Minister, the mandate of the MDDA is predominantly to set up and assist community radio stations and media in broad terms. But one of the key challenges that they have is that one of lack of funding for capacity building. Two, it talks about high turnover of board members. Thirdly, it is with regards to the fact that when they support projects, there are no measures that would seek sustainability beyond funding provided by MDDA. But the last one without crying about budget, is that in 2018-19, they incurred irregular expenditure of R39,1 million. Now, I want you to balance me on this one, you cry about lack of funding but you have an irregular expenditure at the same time. How do you balance the two? Secondly, how do you envisage that this matter will be addressed in order for MDDA to be able to meet its mandate that it was meant for? Thank you, Chair.
In our recent budget speech, we have made commitments. One, around the fact that the current board of the MDDA has four instead of nine members and we are going we fill the vacancies. The second issue was that the MDDA, we
committed ourselves through the budget speech that we have 12 vacancies and out of those 12, six of them are at an executive level, including the CEO which says to us that the institution does not have leadership.
Now in terms of wanting to manage resources, assisting the institution to live up to its mandate, you must ensure that vacancies are filled and the board is fully comprehensive and covered. We are currently in the process of filling the vacancies in the institution which also includes that one of the CEO and that will assist the institution to be able to monitor the money which we give out; to follow the money where it is and; to be able to funds projects which exist.
The other issue which the board is dealing with is that there have been a number of forensic reports which were brought forward in relation to alleged corruption and the board is fast tracking and ensuring that remedial actions are taken as per recommendations of independent bodies which conducted them. What we have also sought to do is that we have engaged the private sector that support of the MDDA beyond the financial muscle that we do as an institution, I have indicated that we have engaged them on other various projects which they can assist.
But as the MDDA, if we are able to give money to community radio stations and community print, how will the private sector, especially in your mainstream media platforms, they come on board in assisting the institution and our community radio stations with capacity building? How will they assist them with news gathering and how to run a reputable community radio station, a radio station which will be able to generate resources on its own beyond the funding that we give them? Thank you.
Deputy Minister, I rise again as I want to discuss the issue of corruption at the MDDA. You may be aware of the fact that the former Chair of the board, Ms P Nkomo, appointed herself as the CEO of the MDDA, completely irregularly and without any justification. She then proceeded to pay herself an amount of R235 000. She was a board member and the amount due in terms of board meetings, was R2200 per meeting with a maximum of 12 meetings a year which means that she scooped herself about