NDP.

Through these assessments and reports, it can be concluded that we have not done well in reducing income inequality and building human capabilities. Unemployment, especially amongst women and the youth, remains high. Education and skills outcomes need further improvements. The current fiscal constraints pose an immediate limitation to sustaining the process that has been made in implementing the NDP.

To sustain the achievements, we need higher and inclusive economic growth and a more responsive quality of education and skills. We need to build on the gains made by mobilising strategic partnerships with the private sector and other social partners to play a meaningful role in sustaining and advancing several developmental goals.

Furthermore, the three apex priorities of the NDP are to grow and transform the economy, build human capabilities and build a capable state. Below is the progress made to date on poverty and employment.

With regard to poverty, poverty rates fell substantially after the year 2000. There was a significant improvement by 2011, with the poverty rate falling to 22% but bouncing back to 26,5% in 2015.

The current employment rate of 29% of the labour force as per Statistics SA, show us that over the period 2015-17, only 364 000 jobs, of an average of 182 000 per annum, were created, which is only 31% of the annual target.

Lastly, there are several objective and subjective factors that can explain the weaknesses in achieving some of the goals and targets of the NDP. Some of these are the slow contribution by social partners in the implementation of the NDP, particularly in the area of job creation; the slow pace of transformation in the financial sector, leading to barriers to entry by the African majority; the slow progress in skills developmental initiatives that are linked to employment creation; income inequalities; comprehensive and integrated planning between spheres of government; and the shrinking of the public purse. Thank you. [Applause.]

Thank you Deputy Minister for your response. I want to ask a follow-up question. Has government looked at making industrialisation the central pillar in advancing the objectives of

the NDP, especially the manufacturing sector, to ensure that the South African economy generates the right mix of decent jobs in the economy and complement ... in the services sectors?

Thank you. Based on the

25 year review and the Medium-Term Strategic Framework, MTSF, 2014-

19 report, one of the challenges raised in terms of the economy was the need for industrialisation. The new MTSF 2019-24 takes into cognisance the current environment to revitalise the economy and respond to value-added sectors, such as mining, agriculture and manufacturing, in the current economic environment.

The right mix of jobs will also require the enhancement of the township economy and the transition of youth into the labour force. This can be achieved using different pathways as well as by developing economic zones to ensure an equitable distribution of skills and expertise and the required infrastructure. Implications of the Fourth Industrial Revolution and the acceleration of South Africa's preparation for the revolution is also a priority.

Thank you, House Chair. Deputy Minister, the NDP has failed to meet almost all of its targets. [Interjections.] Yes, and that was because of the ... based on the incorrect and misguided

idea that the private sector will actually grow the economy. The NDP promised growth of six per cent but by the look of things, by organisations this year, growth will be at one per cent.

The NDP promised to reduce unemployment by 14%; now we are standing at between 13 million and 24 million that are unemployed in South Africa.

Do you agree that ... move on the state-driven industrial policy, to grow the economy and create jobs is the only direction that the state must take at the moment, considering what is happening in terms of the growth of the economy?

Given your question and the fact that you are giving me statistical numbers, which I do not have at hand, it will be very dangerous for me to respond. I will give you a written response. I want to go and check how factual the numbers are that you are attributing to ... Thank you, Chair.

One of the key indicators or objectives of the NDP is to make sure that households that have an income of R419,00 are cut from 39% to zero per cent by 2030. That's one.

Now, currently we have an unemployment rate of 29%. Deputy Minister, I would like to know from you whether we are on track to achieve the objectives of the NDP as we currently stand, given the lack of economic growth, high unemployment and high levels of poverty. Thank you, Chair.

Yes, we are on track. If you remember from my initial response, I indicated the achievements of the NDP which are also inculcated in the 25 year review. What I indicated, which I'm going to repeat, is that there are several challenges which are hindering us from attaining some of the objectives, which are in light of what you are raising.

Firstly, I spoke about the low distribution of social partners in the implementation of the NDP and the slow pace of transformation in the financial sector, leading to barriers of entry by the African majority.

Now, in terms of these highlights which I mentioned in the previous response, if we are able to tackle them - which are part of the priorities that were spoken about in the state of the nation address - we will be able to get on track. So, I think we are on track.

Thank you, Chair. Deputy Minister, my regards to the Minister. We are talking about the NDP and we are talking about the progress of the NDP. So, if I refer you to page 403 of the NDP, it speaks to corruption fighting. The NDP cites a number of bodies that help us with corruption fighting - the Hawks, the Special Investigating Unit, the Asset Forfeiture Unit, the Public Protector, the Auditor-General and of course the National Prosecuting Authority.

So, Deputy Minister, can you tell me how it is possible that after all these years where we've had the NDP and the focus on corruption busting in terms of the NDP, that one year after the formal report on the VBS banking scandal - the only black-owned bank in South Africa to ever be looted - we still don't have any prosecutions? In fact, this past weekend's Sunday papers showed us that the hon Shivambu and the hon Malema were closely linked to this looting; yet, neither of them has been charged, arrested or convicted. What will the Minister do to ensure that those responsible for the VBS looting fiasco get brought to justice and face the consequences? [Interjections.]

Point of order, House Chairperson. This member is out of order. We've said many times ... [Interjections.] Wait, wena

man! We've said many times that if you have a case, go to the police station and open a case against individuals. [Interjections.] Don't come here and brag about anything. Don't come here wanting to be relevant and mention hon members' names here. [Interjections.]

Hon member?

This is out of order, House Chairperson. [Interjections.]

Hon member, that's not a point of order. Deputy Minister, can you respond?

I don't think ...

I'm rising on a point of order. You need to address this ma'am. As a matter of fact, the ANC is the main looter of the VBS ... [Interjections.] ... but none of you are mentioning it. You are mentioning innocent people here. [Interjections.] Your Stratcom people continue to mention innocent people here. [Interjections.] The ANC looted the VBS. [Interjections.]

Order, members! Order! [Interjections.] Order!

IsiXhosa:

Ufuna ukuva ukuba kuthiwani na, kodwa usaphinda uthetha nalo mntu. Ndizakucela ukuba simamele iHansard ...

English:

... at our next sitting. Thank you. Are you alright, ma'am?

I'm fine. I'm not going to respond to that. I don't think it's a follow-up question to what ... [Inaudible.]

There's a point of order. Can we hear your point of order, sir?

Thank you, House Chairperson. With respect to your earlier ruling, perhaps it might also help to satisfy the hon member to have the knowledge that were the DA in government those members referred to would already have been in jail.

That's not a point of order. Deputy Minister, can you respond? I hope ... that the Deputy Minister doesn't know what to answer ... the way we are doing. [Laughter.]

On a point of order, Chair. It's a point of order.

You are posing the question to the Deputy Minister. I want her to answer you.

Chair, it's just a point of order.

Can you please sit down because you asked your question. Deputy Minister, can you answer the question ... [Inaudible.]

Which question, Chair? Please guide me. Which question?

Okay. Hon ... [Interjections.] Hon ... Order members! Hon ... can you please repeat your question

because the Deputy Minister didn't hear it due to this noise? Thank you. [Interjections.]

Chair, I shall repeat the question. The simple question to the Deputy Minister is ... I sketched the background. The simple question is this. How can we say the NDP is progressive if the plethora of investigative agencies that we have, have not made any headway so far, one year after the VBS looting saga was reported on? Where are we going, and will you in your job in the Presidency make sure that everyone involved in the VBS looting fiasco, whether directly connected or indirectly connected like my friends over here, face the consequences? Will you ensure that they face the consequences?

Okay. I don't think the question is a follow up to what I've been raising. I'm going to request that he raises it on another platform and then we will be able to engage and respond.

Can you please sit down? Hon Mthethwa?

[Inaudible.] ... the issue of naming the ANC as corrupt and people that ... [Interjections.]

You are corrupting the truth!

No, no, no, no! Chair, I just want to say that in the question that was raised by the colleague next to me, nowhere was the ANC mentioned. [Interjections.] In terms of the VBS, the ANC has dismissed its mayors. So, it must not be attributed to this question. That's my point of order, Chair. [Interjections.]

Order hon members! I pray that next time you must be a House Chair and sit here.

Who?

You! I want to say that this is not the question that you asked at the beginning. You are now misleading the Deputy Minister. The Deputy Minister wanted to answer the question; however, she can't answer it because the question that you have asked is not the same as the question that you asked when I gave you a second time.

IsiZulu:

Yima kancane lungu elihloniphekile Dodovu.

English:

Chair, the problem that you made was at the beginning when this hon member posed the question to the Deputy Minister. Then he diverted. He mentioned a lot of things and you didn't rule on that. Can you please rule on that and ask him to stick to his question? Thank you.

Hon members, you are not assisting me. What makes me ... Can you please sit down, ma'am? Can you please sit down and put down your hands. I want us to solve this problem together. [Interjections.] I said he must repeat as the Deputy Minister cannot answer the question now because of the noise that you guys are making. Hence I said that he must repeat the question.

IsiXhosa:

Anifuni ukuya emakhaya. [Uwele-wele.]

English:

Hon members? What are you rising on now?

On what we are discussing. Chair, you asked hon Brauteseth to repeat what he initially asked. To make it easier for the Deputy Minister, he summed it up; he summarised it. It has exactly the same content; just shorter. So, the crux of the matter was still discussed. You even said that you are going to refer something to Hansard. Please tell us what you are referring and give the member the opportunity again to repeat the question in full then. If she cannot answer a summary, ask him to speak and to give the whole question again.

Let's hear the point of order.

The point of order is that this hon member cannot be a spokesperson of another member. [Applause.] She can't do that. She can't do that. [Interjections.] The point is that the question is very clear. The Deputy Minister will answer to that particular question. Give her the space. These frivolous points of order are just wasting time and diverting us, and I want you to rule on that. She's here, she's fit and she's capable to respond to the question. [Interjections.] What's your problem?

Okay. Order members! Order! Order! I will now like to make a ruling on this matter.

IsiXhosa:

Animameli niyazazi.

English:

Can I make a ruling on this order, and go back to what I said at the beginning, that I'm going to look at Hansard? I'll ask the Deputy Minister not to answer this question ... [Interjections.] ... because she did not hear what he said.

I'm continuing with my list. I'm continuing with another list. I have made a ruling. I have made a ruling. Can you please sit down?

IsiZulu:

Asizukugidagida entweni eyodwa lapha.

English:

Can you please sit down? [Interjections.] Chief Whip, can you please assist?

Thank you very much, hon Chair. Can I request the hon members to sit down? [Interjections.] Can I request the hon members to sit down? {Interjections.]

Point of order, members. Can you please sit down? [Interjections.] Can you please sit down? [Interjections.]

Hon Chair, I want to make an appeal ...

I've pointed ... the Chief Whip. Can you sit down please?

I want to appeal to hon members to act in an honourable way and to respect the Chairperson of the session. The Chairperson of the session has powers that are vested in her ... [Interjections.] ... and she has exercised those powers and ruled on that point of order. [Interjections.] Now, why must members continue wanting to dictate to the Chairperson how to run the meeting? If you have issues ... [Interjections.] ... you know what to do. You have avenues to explore. For now, your point of order has been ruled on. The Chairperson has ruled on a point of order and she is ordering the meeting to proceed. [Interjections.]

Order members! Order members! Can all of you take your seats and sit down?

IsiZulu:

Ngicela nihlaleni phansi nonke.

English:

Hon members, I'm asking you to sit down. Can you please sit down ma'am? Ushers, can you please help me with those who don't want to sit down? [Interjections.] Assist me with those who don't want to sit down. [Interjections.]

Throw them out! Throw them out!

If you don't want to sit down

... Hon members, order! Can we adjourn for five minutes?