Speaker, the answer to the question is that the National Conventional Arms Control Committee Act of 2002 was assented to and came into operation on 12 February 2003. Arms exports, prior to 2003, were administered in terms of article 4(c) of the Armscor Act of 1968. All NCACC annual reports from 2003 to 2009 have been duly submitted by the NCACC to Parliament.
I therefore wish to refer the member to all those annual reports, which contain all the information relating to this particular question. The member, when reading those reports, will realise that various kinds of equipment was approved by the NCACC, including, amongst other things, parachutes, personnel MK6s, various ammunitions, night-vision equipment, laser rangefinders, 12-guage shotguns, infantry combat vehicles.
In terms of quantity, it is about 9 081, with total permits numbering 75. The total value of exports is R80,86 million. I thank you, Speaker.
Speaker, the hon Minister has now finally confessed to authorising the export of conventional arms to one of the most repressive countries in the world, namely Libya. This, despite the fact that the preamble to the legislation regulating conventional arms in our country states that we will not trade conventional arms with states engaged in repression, aggression or terrorism.
Won't the hon Minister tell us in plain language, with a simple yes or no, whether he authorised the export of more than 100 sniper rifles and more than 50 000 rounds of ammunition to Libya in 2010? If the answer is yes, would the hon Minister tell this House what it feels like to have blood on his hands? [Interjections.]
Speaker, on a point of order: The insinuations that the hon member is making against the hon Minister suggest that when the hon Minister answers that question in this honourable House, he is actually confessing that he has blood on his hands. That is completely out of order, and I ask you to give a ruling that that is unparliamentary.
The point of order is sustained. Hon member, you are out of order with those remarks. Hon member, you need to withdraw those remarks. They are out of order.
Hon Speaker, with respect, I refuse to withdraw those remarks. [Interjections.]
Will you leave the Chamber. [Interjections.] Order, hon members! Hon members, order! I don't want to ask you to accompany hon member Maynier. [Laughter.] [Interjections.] Order!
Whereupon the member withdrew from the House.
I have the following names on my list. The hon Dudley will be followed by the hon Maziya.
Thank you, Speaker. Hon Minister, are there any outstanding orders? If so, what are their delivery dates and what is the status of these orders in view of the present situation?
Hon member, there are no outstanding orders for this country in particular. We have no requests from the private sector to authorise any exports to that country.
Ngiyabonga Ngqongqoshe, ngokuya ngempendulo yakho ngiyajabula ngoba angikholwa ukuthi isekhona imibuzo esingahle siyifune lapha endlini, ngenxa yokuthi usibonise lapho kumele siye khona ukuze sithole zonke izimpendulo esizifunayo. Ngiyabonga. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[Mr A M MAZIYA: Thank you, hon Minister. As far as your response is concerned, I'm happy. I don't believe that there are any further questions that can be asked in this House, because you have indicated to us where we should go in order to get all the answers that we want. Thank you.]
Thank you very much. We now move on to Question ...
Sorry, I rise on a point of order, Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, I am very well aware of the fact that the previous questioner from our side has exited the Chamber. However, the question remains pertinent. And, whereas he didn't withdraw certain remarks, the question remains pertinent. I suspect that the Minister would want to reply to those questions.
The Speaker has ordered the hon member to leave the House. I cannot answer an absentee. [Interjections.]
Sorry, Mr Speaker, on a point of order: That is not an adequate explanation. [Interjections.] Certain remarks made in the course of the question were perhaps inappropriate. Nonetheless, the question remains pertinent and we need a reply from the Minister. [Interjections.]
Hon Speaker, with due respect to the Leader of the DA, you have made a ruling on the matter.
The Chief Whip.
Sorry, Mr Speaker, first of all I am not the Leader of the DA. I am the Chief Whip of the DA. [Laughter.] [Interjections.] You should know that. And, secondly, my question remains. Comments may well have been unparliamentary and that is for you to decide, sir, and we respect your ruling in that regard. But the question remains pertinent and we expect a reply from the Minister. Thank you.
Speaker, I honestly don't understand how it would be feasible for the Minister to separate out that which is parliamentary from that which is not parliamentary with regard to that question. [Interjections.] The question itself was out of order in the manner in which it was put. [Interjections.] The hon member is at liberty, in future, to ask a question that is in order. [Interjections.]
Order! Order, hon members! Order! Order! The question was asked by the member; the question belongs to the member. It is the Minister's prerogative if he wishes to answer a question of somebody who is not in the Chamber. Minister, it is your prerogative.
I have already answered, Speaker. I can't answer a question from an absentee member who has been thrown out of this House. [Applause.]
Thank you very much. Order, hon members! Order!
Sorry, on a point of order, Mr Speaker: You know, Mr Speaker, you can take a technical point like that and, yes, perhaps it is acceptable, but it is actually not acceptable. The Minister knows it is not acceptable, because it shows contempt for this House in respect of questions asked in respect of that Minister's portfolio. And, yes, perhaps because certain comments made in the course of a question were perhaps unparliamentary, that doesn't excuse the Minister from accountability to this House in respect of a question asked.
Speaker, on a point of order: It is perfectly feasible for the opposition to raise the same question at another time in proper terms. Why push it now? They can ask it some other time. [Interjections.]
Order, hon members! Order! Order! Order! I will come back with a ruling on this matter at another time.
Please take your seat, hon member.
Mr Speaker, on a point of order: I would now like to take charge of that question. In terms of Rule 107(7), a member may give notice or take charge of a question on behalf of an absent member if the member has been authorised to do so by the absent member. I am duly authorised to do so. I request a question. [Interjections.] [Applause.]
Order! Order, hon members! Hon member, to ask a supplementary question, which this is not, you have to be recognised by the Speaker. I now want to move on. I have made a ruling on the matter.
Minister's position on lease agreement of police headquarters in Pretoria
33. Mr L Ramatlakane (Cope) asked the Minister of Police:
(1) Whether he has studied the report of the Public Protector with regard to the lease agreement of the police headquarters in Pretoria; if not, what is the position in this regard; if so,
(2) whether he intends cancelling the lease agreement; if not, why not; if so, what are the (a) contractual consequences of cancelling the lease agreement and (b) further relevant details?