Hon Speaker, in the 2011 state of the nation address, I made a commitment that government would fill all funded vacant posts, and I directed the Performance Monitoring and Evaluation department in my office to provide a report within six months on the state of vacancies. This report has been provided.
An analysis of the expenditure of personnel budgets, together with general personnel information on Persal, our employee database, indicates that, on average, less than 3% of funded posts are vacant at any time. This means that, in general, national and provincial departments are doing well in terms of filling funded vacant posts. However, the exercise indicated a need to clean up the personnel database.
The report found that some departments had captured unfunded vacant posts on the database, which contributed to the impression that there were large numbers of vacant positions. We have also noticed a tendency to fill more administrative posts than technical posts that are required to improve service delivery. For example, in the health sector there has been a 71% growth rate in administrative appointments and only a 39% growth rate in health professionals between 2003 and 2010.
A few national departments, such as Water Affairs, Public Works and Justice and Constitutional Development, have had high vacancy rates. This is linked to the difficulty in attracting skilled personnel to government. Some departments, such as the Department of Rural Development and Reform, were undergoing restructuring and had relatively high vacancy levels for that reason. Various actions have been taken since the submission of the report.
Firstly, the Department of the Public Service and Administration has issued an instruction to all departments to fill the funded vacancies and remove unfunded ones from their personnel systems; and, secondly, the Forum of SA Directors-General has been directed to ensure that vacancies are filled within four months, instead of the average time of six to nine months, which had become the norm in the Public Service.
Progress reports will be provided to Cabinet and the President's Co- ordinating Council periodically. As we monitor these reports, the Presidency will determine whether or not it is necessary to take any action against any particular department for not filling vacancies timeously. Thank you, hon Speaker. [Applause.]
Thank you, Mr Speaker, and thank you, Mr President. The filling of vacant posts is critical, especially the funded ones, in order to ensure that delivery in terms of the government's mandate happens. I want to ask the President if government has specific targets to ensure 100% compliance, especially with the departments that are dealing with five key priorities of government. Thank you.
Hon Speaker, we have talked about the instructions sent to all departments. In this instance, we did not necessarily target specific departments. We are dealing with all the departments. They must all comply. We believe that that needs to happen in government. There should be no departments that are left unattended. That instruction is equal in all departments so far. Thank you, hon Speaker.
Mr Speaker, high vacancy rates in the Public Service have resulted in serious delivery problems, exacerbated by the negative impact of political appointees without the necessary qualifications in influential Public Service positions. One of the key factors that the National Planning Commission identified is the need to replace political deployment with a focus on building a professional Public Service that serves the government of the day.
Mr President, will your government start appointing appropriately qualified people, and develop a professional, nonpartisan Public Service able to deliver quality services to all before December 2012?
Hon Speaker, I always hear allegations that there are people who are employed who don't qualify. Who are they? [Interjections.] Who are they? [Interjections.] No, I don't know them. I always hear this cry. I don't even know their percentage. You are just making a political statement. You can't even produce one. Can you produce one? [Interjections.] You can produce three? [Laughter.]
I am saying this, because, to me, this is just a generalised statement. If one day somebody comes and says, "These are the individuals who don't qualify," then we can talk seriously, but not if it is a generalised statement, a political statement made to deal with political issues. [Interjections.]
Again, on the matter of people who are political or not political, you make this seem as if this is a rule that operates in the world. Systems are not the same. There are countries where there are professional public servants, and it does not matter which government is in power, they are there. There are leading democracies where, once elections are fought and won, the old party goes and the new party comes in with its own people. These are the kinds of democracies that you always quote. [Interjections.]
You cannot tell me that the systems that come with the party are not politically inclined. [Interjections.] Don't create systems that don't exist for convenience. I am saying that you don't have one type of system. There are different systems. It depends on which system a country prefers. Don't make out as if this is the system, and if you go out of it, then you are breaking the rules of how the civil servant should be. I don't think that should be the case.
You know that when people are employed, whatever home they come from, whether it is a political one or not, they go through very rigorous interviews. They produce papers of their qualifications. [Interjections.] I haven't met a single person who is there without a single paper. I am just saying that some questions are too general, and you are trying to paint the government into a corner where it doesn't belong. That is why I started by asking: Can you tell me how many people don't qualify? You can't tell me. [Interjections.] You can't tell me. [Laughter.]
You cannot, therefore, tell this government to stop doing something that it is not doing. We are not doing that. We employ people accordingly. I am sure some of the people who were once in this administration will agree - who are sitting in the opposite benches. Nobody was just brought in without ... [Interjections.] [Laughter.] Ndabezitha! [show of respect.] if you have cases, you should present them so that we can deal with the cases. That would be wonderful. Then you can say, "Look at the case; deal with it; take the appropriate decision." Thank you very much, hon Speaker. [Applause.]
Hon Speaker, I have in my hand a report dated 15 May 2012 by the Public Service Commission. In this report, it is stated, with regard to performance or service delivery, that the major reason for nonachievement is a lack of capacity or skills. The question is: What is the government doing to enhance the skills of these administrators that have been appointed in order to give this House the hope that service delivery will consequently be enhanced? Thank you.
Hon Speaker, in fact we have programmes to enhance the skills of those who are in government. Those programmes are going on, because it is absolutely important that they perfect their skills. Those programmes are there, we are working! Thank you, hon Speaker.
Thank you very much, Speaker. Mr President, following your response to this question, let me ask a specific question concerning the filling of vacant posts. The Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, Cogta, takes about 20 months to fill a vacant post, and that is why we have problems in terms of service delivery. If you look at the Department of Health, it takes three years - I think you have already said that - to fill professional posts. If you look at the Department of Transport, it takes 29 months to fill critical vacant posts. The Department of Police takes four years. The question is: What are you going to do to correct this problem that you have in these four departments in particular? There are many other departments, but I have chosen these four as they require action, because as the President you must be worried about particularly Cogta in terms of service delivery, and about the marches and protests taking place in the country.
So the question is: What are the consequences for people not adhering to the programme that you have put forward in terms of filling vacancies of critical posts? That is all I want to ask you, Mr President.
Hon Speaker, well, the hon member is really very specific about the months that it takes. Now, generally, I am aware that government's machinery moves very slowly. But I can't confirm the months taken in specific departments because I don't have that report - not unless I answer the question which is an exaggerated one. I say this all the time: Government must do things differently. What delays things in government has been a long-established bureaucracy. You have to go through certain processes. And, I'm sure, if we left aside the time you are talking about, if we did not go through the rigorous kind of investigating of a person who is coming in - if we just said that because a person says he or she has a certain qualification, they must take up the post because of time constraints - you would say that you employ people that you are not sure about.
The system of government, of course, operates in its own way. I don't accept that we should take so many months to employ one person. I think it is wrong. And if it is a reality, it needs to be corrected. Certainly, as you have made the point, I'm going to follow up to check if this is the reality, because if it is, we need to correct it. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Progress since government intervention in Limpopo and Eastern Cape
11. Mr A M Mpontshane (IFP) asked the President of the Republic:
What are the main details of the progress that has been made since the Government's intervention in (a) Limpopo and (b) the Eastern Cape in terms of Section 100 of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa, 1996? NO1327E
Hon Speaker, last year the national government instituted section 100(1)(b) interventions in the Eastern Cape and Limpopo provinces to assist in improving service delivery to the public. You will recall that at the time of the Limpopo intervention, there was an estimated R2 billion shortfall as a result of a combination of factors, including an accumulation of unauthorised expenditure and poor cash-flow management practices. As at 31 March 2012, the cash position had improved, with a positive year- end balance of R231,4 million. This positive cash position is due to cash management controls that were put in place in December 2011. While the cash position has improved and payments and procurement systems in departments have stabilised, further work still needs to be done.
The provincial treasury intervention team has instructed all departments to develop a fiscal recovery plan that must include strengthening departmental budget formulation processes and supply chain management.
Law enforcement agencies are looking into allegations of fraud, maladministration and corruption in a number of departments. Work is ongoing to improve services in all the affected government departments, including health, education, roads and transport.
Last year, Cabinet decided to intervene in the Eastern Cape education department, in terms of section 100(1)(b) of the Constitution of the Republic. Owing to legal uncertainty regarding the implementation of interventions in terms of section 100(1)(b) of the Constitution, legal advice was required to focus the implementation of the intervention. This was necessary and imperative as it became clear that we would be faced with challenges, and these did emerge.
The Presidential Task Team, which comprised five Ministers and five MECs from the Eastern Cape, recommended a different approach to implement the intervention in terms of which the Eastern Cape government would implement and the national government would monitor, oversee and evaluate the implementation of the intervention.
A team of Deputy Ministers visited the Eastern Cape to conduct a comprehensive monitoring and evaluation exercise on the implementation of the intervention, and a report was tabled in Cabinet.
Cabinet directed a full implementation of the intervention as intended by the Constitution. There is now a clear understanding and acceptance of the intervention in the Eastern Cape. Task teams focusing on the main areas of the intervention to the extent necessary have been established, and these teams are about to finalise their work plans.
We are confident that this time around we will be able to stabilise and normalise the Eastern Cape department of education, while ensuring that the right of the children of the Eastern Cape to quality basic education is upheld at all times.
Currently, there is no national legislation regulating interventions in terms of section 100. Government has introduced the Monitoring, Support and Intervention Bill to fill this gap, and to regulate interventions in terms of section 100, as well as all interventions in terms of section 139 of the Constitution. I thank you, hon Speaker.
Thank you, hon Speaker and hon President. Let me preface my question by stating the following. In a statement of support given by my leader, Prince M G Buthelezi, during the state of the nation debate, he said, Mr President, that your government's failures are his failures. On that basis, the IFP supported your government's focus on the three Ts in education, that is, textbooks, teachers and time.
Hon President, the Eastern Cape is still failing in all three of these spheres. We are halfway through the year and most schools in these provinces do not have textbooks, in spite of the task team that has been operating in these provinces. What other steps, hon President, are being taken to ensure that the Eastern Cape and the Limpopo provincial leadership do not rely on section 100(1)(b) of the Constitution to be rescued from possible future financial health and educational mismanagement? I thank you.
Hon Speaker, I have just stated that we have taken measures since we applied section 100. First, we had the team of Ministers and we indicated that we realised that there were no clear regulations as to how it is implemented in practice - concretely. We then had to work out how to deal with this issue and how to close the gap, and we had to discuss this between the province and the national governments.
I said that we sent a team of Deputy Ministers to check the progress. We are even making a law to help deal with this gap. We now have a plan in place and the work is continuing in the Eastern Cape. Those are measures that we are undertaking as a result of the practical challenges that we faced. You couldn't come and say, "This is how you do it", because there were no regulations. You needed regulations and those regulations are being worked on, and we are trying to make them completely legal by introducing a law that is going to deal with that matter. This is so that in future we don't have these problems. Those measures are being undertaken. Thank you, hon Speaker.
Mr Speaker, the province of Limpopo finds itself in a dire situation. It is now May, five months into the school year, and school textbooks have yet to be delivered to schools up and down the province. Learners are being denied their constitutional right to an education by a corrupt and a broken provincial government.
There are hospitals in that province that have no soap, no gloves, no cleaning materials; hospitals where women have to give birth in dirty beds. There isn't enough food for patients. There are not enough nurses to service the hundreds and hundreds of patients who stream through the hospital doors on a daily basis. Again, the people of the province are being failed by an administration that is corrupt and that is broken.
It is clear for all of South Africa to see that Limpopo is now a failed province, failed by an ineffective government and failed by a weak premier. I am going to ask the President to answer a straight question with a straight answer. [Laughter.] Does he agree that the time has come for the fiddling while Rome is burning to come to an end; and for the Premier of Limpopo, Mr Cassel Mathale, to do the right thing and resign? Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Hon Speaker, the hon member wants a straight answer when she is asking a question in a roundabout way. She is not asking a straight question, because she made a long statement first. Nevertheless, what I said in response to the question is that the very fact that we applied section 100(1)(b) is because there were difficulties and problems in Limpopo. That is the reason why we had to act and intervene. We are intervening to address the problems.
I have said that we are already seeing a turnaround in terms of the cash flow in that province. I also said that investigations by the law enforcement agencies are ongoing. It is only when you have discovered the wrongdoing that you act. [Interjections.]
Order, hon members! Order!
And those reports are going to come out and those reports will determine what happens to the premier. You are talking as if nothing is being done. I am saying that investigation is ongoing, whilst we are addressing the question of service delivery. I cannot understand that you order an investigation but act against the people that are supposed to be looked at when you have not got the results of the investigation. [Interjections.]
Hon members, order!
Yes, that is why we had to act because we could see; that is the reason. Now, we are dealing with the issues, which will include the premier because we are investigating the entire province. I don't think you could say we are being fair if there are allegations that are being made whilst you are investigating, and you then give a verdict. I don't think that is right, and I don't think that is part of how democracy operates. [Interjections.]
You have processes that you must go through and then make conclusions, findings and determinations, and then you can get a report that tells you that you must now act. The process is ongoing. Progress is being made. That is what is happening. Thank you, hon Speaker.
I have a point of order, hon Speaker.
Yes, what is your point of order?
The President has not answered the question. He had a direct ... [Interjections.]
Hon member, that is not a point of order. Take your seat. [Laughter.]
Thank you, Mr Speaker. Hon President, if there is a problem in any province or any municipality and people hear that there is going to be an intervention by national government, usually people have hope that things are going to change for the better. But the experience regarding this particular intervention is that the people of Limpopo had to go to court to get school books.
In the Eastern Cape, the doctors were not paid for five months. The teachers went on strike in the Eastern Cape instead of teaching after the intervention. So, my question is: What tangible results, not progress - tangible results - are there which we can talk to as a result of this particular intervention, particularly in the Eastern Cape, where the chaos led to substantial downtime and loss of learning time owing to the teachers' strike? Will recovery of the lost time be negotiated with unions so that learners can make up class lessons and catch up with the syllabus?
Hon Speaker, I am sure I could start again and give the answer, because I have answered the question. I have said we have made interventions in the Eastern Cape and I have said we realised that there were no regulations to implement section 100. We then had to work to produce regulations so that we were able to deal with the situation. Now, we have done everything; the work is proceeding.
Now, how could you demand results in that kind of situation and ask where the results are? The results are that we have discovered what the challenges were and we have remedied them. We now have plans that are being implemented. If you want the progress results, that is what they are. And we are remedying the situation in the Eastern Cape.
The very fact that in both the Eastern Cape and Limpopo the national government had to apply section 100 means that there was something wrong, and we are dealing with that. You talk as if only when the intervention was being made there was a problem. The intervention was made because there was a problem. We are in the process of correcting the problem.
That is why, if you talk about the books that have not been delivered, it's precisely because there were problems that we are fixing. That is what it is. I don't think you could do this in any other way, unless you are a magician. You come, you raise a handkerchief, you say, "Everything must change", and it changes. That can't be. Thank you, hon Speaker.
Somlomo, ngiyabonga. Mongameli sizibonile izingqinamba nezinkinga ezitholakale kulezi zifundazwe ezimbili esikhuluma ngazo namhlanje. Sikubonile futhi nokungenelela kukahulumeni ukuze lezi zingqinamba zikwazi ukuthi zixazululeke. Mongameli, omunye umbuzo wami ukuthi kuzo zonke izinkinga nokungenelela okubekhona, ngabe ziningi yini izifundo esizitholile kulezi zifundazwe ezimbili?
Mongameli, ngiyajabula ukuthi usukuphakamisile ukuthi kulezi zifundo ezitholakele siyazibuza ukuthi sizokwenza kanjani ukuthi sikwazi ukuvikela nakwezinye izifundazwe singayiboni inkinga efana nalena isiqhubekela phambili iya nakuzo.
Yingakho, Mongameli namhlanje ukhuluma ngokuthi ukhona umthetho ozoshaywa ukuthi ezinye zezifundazwe zizokwenza kanjani ukuthi zingangeni enkingeni efana nale. Ngicabanga ukuthi lokho Mongameli siyakujabulela futhi siyakwamukela ngezandla ezimbili. Nginesicelo nesiphakamiso, Mongameli sokuthi sengathi impela kungashesha kuthi nakwezinye izifundazwe ukuthi bawazi lo mthetho, bawuqonde ukuze ngempela singaziboni sesingene enkingeni efana nale yalezi zifundazwe ezimbili. Ngempela kuyawumisa umsebenzi uthole ukuthi kuningi ukukhubazeka okuba khona ekutheni intuthuko nemisebenzi iye ebantwini. Ngiyabonga kakhulu Mongameli.
UMONGAMELI WERIPHABHULIKHI YASENINGIZIMU AFIKA: Somlomo, kuyiqiniso impela ukuthi ukuvela kwalesi simo kulezi zifundazwe kusifundise lukhulu mayelana nokuthi ngempela ngempela kungenzeka ukuthi indlela izifundazwe eziphethwe ngayo kungaze kufinyelelwe ezingqinambeni ezilukhuni kakhulu kuze kudinge ukuthi uHulumeni kaZwelonke angenelele ukusizana nezifundazwe. Ngiyethemba ukuthi nezinye-ke izifundazwe ziyabuka futhi ziyafunda.
Okwesibili, njengoba sithe asingenelele manje ngokugunyazwa uMthethosisekelo, sifike safunda lukhulu ngokuthi noma uMthethosisekelo usho nje uthi kufanele uma kukhona lezi zinkinga ezifundazweni kungenelelwe kodwa bekufuneka ukuthi kwakhiwe izinhlelo zokuthi uma sekungenelelwa kuzokwenziwa kanjani na.
Yilokho esifike sabhekana nakho, sakufunda yingakho sesakha izinhlelo manje ukwenzela ukuthi nangelinye ilanga uma kuhlangatshezwana nezingqinamba ezinjengalezi, sesiyongenelela ngalo mthetho oqhamuka kuMthethosisekelo sibe sesazi ukuthi nazi izinhlelo. Sekuyoshesha ngoba sifunde lukhulu. Siyacabanga ukuthi nabanye bazofunda bangafuni kuze kungenelelwe. Ngiyabonga Somlomo. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.) [Ms N GINA: Thank you, hon Speaker. Hon President, we have seen obstacles and problems in the two provinces that we are talking about today. We have also seen the government's intervention with the hope of solving these problems. Hon President, my next question is that in all these interventions that took place, are there any lessons that have been learnt in these two provinces?
Hon President, I am pleased that you have already moved that with the lessons that were learnt in this situation, we must ask ourselves how we can prevent these sorts of problems from occurring in other provinces. That is why, hon President, today you speak of a law that will be passed that will give a directive to other provinces to prevent them from finding themselves in such situations. I think that we accept it and that we welcome it with both hands, hon President.
I have a request, hon President, and that is that said law be introduced quickly to other provinces, so that they should know about it, so that we do not find ourselves in the same situation as these two provinces. This situation really hinders progress, because you find that there are many obstacles that stand in the way of service delivery that is meant for the people. Thank you very much, hon President.
Hon Speaker, it is true that the emergence of this situation in these provinces has taught us that the manner in which some provinces are administered can result in them experiencing difficult situations. This in turn could lead to the national government intervening in the administration of these provinces with the aim of assisting them. I hope that other provinces are taking note of this situation.
Since we have intervened now, as mandated by the Constitution, we learnt a lot because although the Constitution dictates that we should intervene if there are problems in the provinces, programmes should be put in place that would give direction as to how things should be done.
That is what we were faced with there and what we learnt, and that is why we are putting programmes in place now so that when we come across such problems in future and we need to intervene, as mandated by the Constitution, we will know that we have programmes in place. That will enable us to work faster as we have learnt a lot. We think that others will also learn to avoid the intervention. Thank you, hon Speaker. [Applause.]]
Restoration of credibility and integrity of security forces
12. Mr L Ramatlakane (Cope) asked the President of the Republic:
How does he intend to restore the credibility and integrity of the security forces in view of the saga surrounding a certain person (name furnished)? NO1325E
Hon Speaker, as I stated in my reply to Question 9 and as a means of ensuring continued credibility and integrity, the Minister of Police, in his budget speech of 9 May 2012, made it very clear that proper processes being put in place to address all aspects of credibility and integrity within the Police Service. Such processes relate not only to specific individuals but also to how the management itself is operating. The security agencies, including the police, continue to do their good work of protecting the country and its citizens. I thank you, hon Speaker. [Applause.]
Thank you, hon Speaker and Mr President. Mr President, it is troubling that since last year when the first, most dangerous intelligence report, called the "ground coverage" intelligence report, alleging corruption-related activities, was presented to you, you have said nothing. This report makes inflammatory accusations against officers who are said to be aligned to former President Mbeki, and you have also remained silent on that - the very report that was handed over by Mr Mdluli. Now, the question, Mr President, which is troubling is: Who else is being bugged or has been bugged by this process of Mdluli? Are Members of this Parliament being bugged? Could you reassure us as members and South Africans that government is not abusing state resources, which is unconstitutional, to further political agendas?
Hon Speaker, I'm not sure what report the hon member is talking about. I don't know how to answer, because he is basing his questions on the report. What report is this? Could I get clarification? [Interjections.]
Order, hon members! Order! Continue, sir.
Mr President, my question is based on the main question. The report I am referring to is the report that has been famously written about, the one that even Mr Mdluli went to court over, having declassified some part of that report, and that report is called the ``ground coverage'' intelligence report on alleged corruption and related activities. This is the report that was allegedly submitted to the President last year. The report alleged that there was a plot amongst Ministers to overthrow the Presidency.
Hon Speaker, well, I have heard the member better now because he said "it is alleged". Now I have heard him. I thought he was very specific that there was a report. I have never seen such a report. So, I can't base any debate or answer on a report that I have not seen. This is not my area. If I read everything in the newspapers and believed all of it, I don't know where I would end up. This is because newspapers write everything they can, and speculate and put forward opinions; whatever. I don't know that report.
With regard to what has happened within the police, again the Minister has addressed this House to explain what measures he has taken. Those measures must bring some comfort to the citizens in that whatever is happening is being dealt with. If I talk about two investigations that are taking place, they must discover those who could have bugged people wrongly, and why they did so. If there was misuse of funds, those investigations will discover this and then we will take action. Thank you, hon Speaker. [Applause.]
Ndiyabulela Somlomo, mhlekazi, ndiza kuzama ukukucenga ukuba usiphendule, ngoba xa singakubuzi imibuzo nathi asisayi kuyifumana imivuzo yethu ukuphela kwenyanga. Ngoko ke, ndicela ukuba usinyamezele. Ingxaki ke, mhlekazi, iqale emveni kokuba kuvele ingxelo yokuba lo kaMdluli ... (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)
[Mr B H HOLOMISA: Thank you, Speaker. Hon President, I will try to persuade you so that you reply, because if we do not ask you questions, we shall not get our salaries at the end of the month. Therefore, I am pleading with you to be patient with us. Hon President, the problem started after the report about Mr Mdluli surfaced, claiming that he ...]
... submitted a report to your office implicating some of your colleagues - Minister Tokyo Sexwale and the suspended Police Commissioner Bheki Cele - on an alleged plot to overthrow your government. If these allegations are untrue, has your office taken steps to clear the names of the people concerned and have you taken any disciplinary action against this alarmist in the event that he misled your office? If ...
... zange udibane naloo ngxelo babe abantu abathethela i-ofisi yakho besithi uMongameli uyifundile le ngxelo uye wayigcina, kodwa khange athabathe nxaxheba - uTokyo Sexwale kwintetho yakhe yasesidlangalaleni wathetha ngale nto - khawusicacisele ngayo. Asilwanga nawe, sonke sakha eli lizwe. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)
[... you never received that report, whereas the representatives from your office acknowledge that the hon President received, read and kept it, but did not take any action - even Tokyo Sexwale referred to this matter in his public statement - please explain this to us. We are not fighting with you; we are all trying to build this country.]
Hon Speaker, I said I have received no report, and I don't want to get into speculation.
Musa ukuyibuza kum kaloku. [Do not ask that from me.]
Ngiyabonga Somlomo, cha Mhlonishwa Mongameli, njengomuntu ophethe lapha ezweni [commander in chief]. Ziyeke lezi zinto othi awukazizwa. Ake sikhulume ngabantu abathi unawo umbiko abaqhamuka ehhovisi lakho. Okokuqala, uthini kubona labo bantu? [Uhleko.] Hhayi, ungakhulumi into ongayazi. Okwesibili, kwenziwa yini njalo duku duku kufakwe igama lakho kulezi zinto? Ngibuza wena Mongameli, bayeke laba ababanga umsindo baholela ukubanga umsindo. [Uhleko.]
UMONGAMELI WASENINGIZIMU AFRIKA: Somlomo, okokuqala nje, ngithi lo mbiko lungu elihloniphekile awukafiki phambi kwami. Angikwazi-ke ukuhamba ngijaha izithunzi noma ngijahe amahemuhemu. Uyabona yini ukuthi amahemuhemu angakanani kuleli lizwe? Ngingagijima ngize ngiphucuke izinyawo ngijahana namahemuhemu ngoba maningi aqhamuka emaphepheni ngayo yonke inhlobo yento le. Sengizogijima-ke nami, ngihambe ngithi la nangala sengathi ngiwuhlanya ngingelona.
Mina ngibhekana ngqo nemibiko ephambi kwami ngikhulume ngayo. Angikhulumi ngezinto ezishiwo ngabantu. Angazi ngoba abantu abadala akushiwo ukuthi baqamba amanga kodwa bayaphosisa abantu ngolimi olujwayelekile.[Uhleko.] Angikwazi ukulandela amaphosiso ashona ngapha nangaphaya. Angikwazi ukuphendula umbuzo ngento engithi ayikafiki kulezi zandla zami . Ukuthi yini abantu bathande njalo nje ukuphakamisa igama lami. Hhayi, angikwazi nami ukuwuphendula lowo mbuzo, kwazi bona ukuthi yini le ebenza bathande igama lami. Mhlawumbe limnandi - angazi. Mhlawumbe uma uthi Zuma kubhaleka kalula. Angazi nami, ngeke impela ngakuphendula lungu elihloniphekile. Ngiyabonga Somlomo. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)
[Mr V B NDLOVU: Thank you, Speaker. No, hon President, as the commander in chief, forget about those things that you say you haven't heard about. Let's talk about the people from your office who claim that you have the report. Firstly, what do you say to those people? [Laughter.] [Interjections.] No, don't talk about something you don't know. Secondly, why is it that you are always implicated in these allegations? I'm asking you, President, to forget about those who are making a noise; that's what they get paid to do. [Laughter.]
Speaker, first of all, this report has not yet been submitted to me. Therefore I can't just act on rumours. Are you aware of how many rumours there are in this country? If I were to follow up on some rumours that are in the media I wouldn't know where to begin and where to end. I can't run around like a headless chicken.
I deal directly with some reports that are before me and talk about them. I don't talk about rumours. I don't know what to say, because in our culture we don't say that elderly people are lying, but rather that they are mistaken. [Laughter.] I can't do a follow-up on unfounded lies. I can't answer a question on something that has not been submitted to me yet. I can't explain why people like mentioning my name; they are the ones who know better. Maybe it is interesting, I don't know. Maybe when you say Zuma, it can be easily written. I don't know about that either. Honestly, I can't answer you, hon member. Thank you, Speaker. [Applause.]]
Speaker, I would like to ask the President, who has yet to give a single straight answer today, to tell us how he intends to restore the credibility of the National Prosecuting Authority, the NPA, given the fact that the NPA has also been implicated in the saga surrounding Richard Mdluli. I refer specifically to the concerns regarding the fact - not the allegation - of the suspension of Adv Glynnis Breytenbach and the nonsuspension of Richard Mdluli. Adv Glynnis Breytenbach was suspended after she had called for a review of the lifting of Mdluli's murder charge. We also have the involvement of senior prosecutor Lawrence Mrwebi. [Interjections.]
Order, hon members! Order!
What is your plan with regard to restoring public confidence in this crucial body, the National Prosecuting Authority? Have you got a plan?
That was the fourth and last supplementary question.
Hon Speaker, once again, the hon member is talking about a component of government which has its own authorities. People have always said that government must not interfere in what is happening in the components. It is very interesting that people now think that I must interfere in everything that happens. Firstly, the NPA is an independent - "independent", which the hon member loves to repeat - component of the justice system. The hon member is saying I must undermine the independence, and now interact and have a plan for them. They are going to say, "You are interfering." That's what they will say.
... restore the credibility ... [Inaudible.]
No. [Interjections.]
Order, hon member! Order!
You take decisions there, you have views about them, and you take people to court to destabilise the functioning of such institutions. [Interjections.] Of course, yes. That's a contribution you have made. I take the decision, which is within my competence, and I put a person in place. You challenge my decision, and the person or the head is taken out. You destabilise the very NPA, and then you now say, "What is the plan?"
Maye babo! Akufanele nibe bukhali nganxanye njengommese ntombazane! [Ubuwelewele.] Sikani ndawo zonke. [My goodness! You are not supposed to have a one-sided view on the matter, madam! [Interjections.] You must look at it from all angles.]
Let us respect independence. Let the processes that are done by independent components take their course, including the court finalisation of your challenges contributing to what we are now saying is instability. [Interjections.] Yebo. [Yes.] [Applause.] You cannot have your cake and eat it. You must be fair. Of course, yes; people take decisions. I can't say to the NPA: "Don't take this decision." They know their job. If there are matters that people are not happy about, they take them to court and the matters are dealt with there.
I am not going to jump; no. I am going to respect the independence of the components. [Interjections.] Correct. Now, once everything is done, it gets to the level of the President. We take decisions. There is no doubt about that. We will take decisions. I believe that with regard to the processes that go on in the NPA, the NPA has the competence to take their decisions. If the decisions are not correct, they are challenged in court. The court then takes the final decisions. Don't ask me to do something, and then say tomorrow, "You don't respect the independence." [Interjections.]
However, the question of credibility is very important. We have taken action because we thought there was no credibility, when there was credibility. The action that caused the problem in the NPA is that we had to suspend somebody because there was action against that person. And then we have people who haven't until now taken a decision to say, "Here is a permanent appointment." This is because we are waiting for the processes which are going on as part of the DA's action. So, talk to yourself as well about the situation we are talking about. Thank you, hon Speaker. [Applause.]
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