Hon Speaker, hon members, no one in this Parliament can refute the fact that our law enforcement forces are confronted with perilous situations as they seek to ensure the safety of the nation. Having said that, at no point in my address to the station commanders and other leaders of the police force did I give police a licence to shoot suspects in circumstances other than those provided for by the law.
It is worth reiterating what I told the station commanders, and I'll quote what I said so that there will be no misunderstanding:
As you are aware, we seek to strengthen the hand of the police in dealing with violent criminals. We intend to finalise amendments to section 49 of the Criminal Procedure Act, with a view to taking the amendments to Parliament soon. This is a measure aimed specifically at dealing with serious violent crime and dangerous criminals.
It is the duty of the police to protect all people against injury or loss of life. But when their lives or the lives of innocent civilians are threatened, police sometimes have no choice but to use lethal force to defend themselves and others. We expect our police officers to observe the law and respect the rights of innocent citizens, at all times.
The Criminal Procedure Act deals with the use of force in effecting arrest. In our view, where the law still exhibits gaps that impact negatively on the ability of the police to perform their work effectively, then such gaps in the law must be addressed without delay. This includes the use of deadly force, as provided for and defined in our legislation.
As the Minister of Police has already said in this House, the technical amendments to section 49 will take cognisance of the founding principles of our Constitution. The exact detail of the wording of this amendment is being finalised and still has to be submitted to Cabinet for ratification.
Police recruits undertake general training, part of which includes equipping them with the skills and knowledge required for them to use deadly force under the circumstances stipulated by law. But that training needs to be improved.
Therefore, the proposed amendments that seek to provide more clarity need to be complemented by the training of all police officers on the relevant sections of the legislation. Section 49 of the Criminal Procedure Act of 1977 refers to "an arrestor", who can be any person who is authorised in terms of the Act to effect an arrest, including a citizen's arrest.
In light of the work still being undertaken, it is not possible to say what effect, if any, the proposed amendment would have on this provision. I thank you, hon Speaker. [Applause.]
Mr Speaker, Mr President, I think that was a good answer. I asked you about the training of police in order for them to make split-second decisions, and you made it clear that attention will be given to the training. You also answered the second question; that section 49 is applicable to citizens. So, you have answered the question, with respect.
However, the impression that has been created has caused us now to expedite the amendments that you have in mind, because some people think - there is a perception - that they can shoot outside the ambit of section 49.
Finally, we in the IFP support this idea and all methods to fight crime and we will support you. I just urge you, with respect, Mr President, to expedite the amendments to this Act. Thank you. [Applause.]
Hon Speaker, certainly, we will expedite the process of the Bill. Thank you.
Hon Speaker, Mr President, certainly in the past month, we have seen the police shoot to kill an unarmed hairdresser, an unarmed food vendor and unarmed man cleaning his shoes, shot in the back of the head as he ran away, and a three-year-old baby in a car because the police said they thought he was armed.
The Constitutional Court has already, very carefully, reworked section 49, taking it from the odious apartheid era section to one that clearly gives police the right to shoot and kill armed criminals aiming a firearm at them or at others.
We've seen unprecedented police murders in the now-national Police Commissioner's province of KwaZulu-Natal, and he too was saying that section 49 would be a mandate to give police increased leniency to shoot. As the police already have this right to shoot armed criminals, obviously the fear in this country is that you - and this is still a great secret; we don't know what amendments you are proposing - are looking at going back to the days of allowing the police to shoot unarmed citizens in the back. That's what we are seeing today. Please, clarify that.
Hon Speaker, I think it is very clear that the hon member is basing her question on speculation. On the basis of what is being said and what we see, we, therefore, think this is what is happening, because we don't know what the contents of the amendments are. She is speculating, therefore, that maybe this is what the commissioner means, or that maybe from what you say, this is what you mean. That is how I understood the question.
I think we are very clear on this matter: We are dealing with crime. The crime in South Africa is different from that of other countries, although it may be the same in terms of quantity. It is different from the point of view that crime in South Africa is more violent than in any other parts of the world. Criminals here act differently; if they break into somebody's house, they wait for the person to arrive and demand the keys to your safe, etc. In other countries they steal and run away.
Here, criminals have been killing people. That is why crime here is characterised as violent. We are, therefore, dealing with that situation. In addition, South Africa is heavily armed as a country. There are lots of guns all over and they are being used to commit crime. We are saying that we need to fight crime. We have made the point that when criminals are cornered, they take out guns and they don't fire warning shots; they shoot to kill. There are many police who have died as a result of that, while observing what ought to be standard practice.
After I addressed the police officers, a policeman in Pretoria who did not have his bullet-proof vest on was killed. The policeman shouted at a criminal three times, "Put your gun down!", and the criminal shot and killed the policeman.
The point that I have been making at least is that when criminals take out their guns, their intention is not to warn; they take them out with the intention to kill.
On the spur of the moment, what do you do as a policeman? Should you say, "I'm a very good policeman and I've got a gun, but I'm not going to shoot you. Please, put the gun down!" How do you deal with the issue of violent crime? How do you limit the numbers of police that are killed by criminals? That's the point we are dealing with, within the law, not outside of the law; hence the amendment to the Act.
Some of the police officers who have made such mistakes as shooting innocent people are now in prison; they have been arrested. There is no open-ended policy that gives the police the right to shoot randomly. That is why the emphasis has been on the amendment of the law. Thank you. [Applause.]
Speaker, hon President, I think you have partly covered my question, but I will still ask the question. We agree, Mr President, that crime in South Africa is in the main violent and that criminals do not hesitate to murder innocent citizens and even our police officers.
It is also true that as they respond to crime, a few amongst our police officers sometimes act in a manner that makes them seem to be trigger- happy. Statistics reveal an upward trend of complaints received over the past five years, from 5 996 in 2004-05 to 6 119 in 2008-09 - an increase of 2%.
Mr President, what is the position of government towards such alleged trigger-happy officers? I thank you.
Hon Speaker, as the hon member has said, we have already answered the question. I'm sure she will be happy to note that the reply to the question she is asking is part of the reply that we have just given. [Applause.]
Mongameli ohloniphekileyo [Hon President], if you agree that section 49 gives the police the power to use force, then it violates the Constitution and the Bill of Rights of the people of South Africa. [Interjections.] No, she did not. Please! Please!
Order, hon members!
What I'm trying to say, Mr President, is how can you make an inflammatory statement that violates the Constitutional Court's judgment regarding the rights of South African citizens and the Bill of Rights? [Laughter.] [Time expired.]
Hon Speaker, I regret that the hon member's time has expired. I did not get the question clearly, because I don't know what statement she is talking about that I made, that is inflammatory and anti-Constitution.
Speaker, on a point of order: Could I just please request you to allow my colleague to reformulate the question? [Interjections.]
Hon member, that is not a point of order. There are procedures here, and no procedure has been violated. Please take your seat, hon member.
Obstacles and challenges facing AU and PAP
10. Mrs F Hajaig (ANC) asked the President of the Republic: What are the (a) obstacles and (b) challenges facing the African Union and the Pan-African Parliament in promoting (i) peace, (ii) development, (iii) democracy and (iv) economic growth on the African continent? NO2631E
Speaker, the African Union has, since its inception in 2002, made important strides towards the goal of establishing an African Economic Community as outlined in the Abuja Treaty. However, as the African Union continues to grow as a continental entity, a number of challenges remain, particularly with respect to peace and security, regional integration, development and economic growth. Some of these relate to the African Union's institutional architecture and capacity constraints. Decisions of the African Union Assembly are often not implemented timeously. It often takes a long time for treaties to be ratified by member states.
There are also challenges around the mandate of the African Union Commission, especially the implications of transforming the African Union Commission into the African Union Authority. The financing of African Union activities and nonpayment of contributions by some member states limit its capacity to undertake its work. Peace missions in Africa often face challenges relating to funding and capacity.
During its tenure in the UN Security Council, South Africa advocated the need to strengthen and enhance the relationship between the United Nations and regional organisations such as the African Union. Despite a UN Security Council resolution, the African Union continues to struggle for funding from its own resources to intervene in the continent's conflicts.
The attainment of democracy in all parts of Africa is an important African Union goal. In this regard, the African Charter on Democracy, Elections and Governance marks the culmination of commitments that have been collectively taken by African member states over the last two decades. It provides a consolidated point of reference for all African Union efforts to enhance the overall state of democracy, elections and governance across Africa.
The pace of regional integration on the continent is uneven. Within the eight regional economic communities, protocols and programmes are often not harmonised. Some countries are members of more than one regional economic community. There is also a disjuncture between the integration processes underway in the regional economic communities and the accelerated momentum given to the union government process. In other words, the political integration process is not sufficiently aligned to the economic process.
Development is hampered by the low levels of intra-Africa trade and the lack of cross-border infrastructure. Poverty and unemployment, exacerbated by the global economic downturn, continue to undermine development. This is compounded by food and energy insecurity, the impact of HIV and Aids, malaria and tuberculosis and low levels of education.
The Pan-African Parliament similarly faces challenges around its institutional and financial architecture. These challenges are not unique to a structure of this magnitude that is still in its infancy. There is a need to improve the working relationship between the African Union and the Pan-African Parliament. Since the election of the new Bureau of the Parliament, the relations are on the mend.
Another challenge is the absence of terms of reference to guide the review of the protocol establishing the Parliament. These are important for guiding the transformation of the institution from an advisory body to a legislative structure elected by universal adult suffrage. Since the African Union is yet to make a final determination on this matter, it is difficult for the Parliament to chart its way forward. The Parliament's lack of enforcement powers, its inability to ensure that its recommendations and resolutions are binding, reduces its capacity to contribute to peace, development, democracy and economic growth.
Despite these challenges, the organs of the African Union continue to play a critical role in advancing the renewal of the African continent. Much progress has been made since their establishment in forging African unity and developing a common vision for a peaceful, stable and prosperous continent.
As South Africa, we must undertake to work with our fellow Africans to overcome these challenges and ensure that the African Union and Pan-African Parliament realise the expectations of the people of this continent. I thank you. [Applause.]
Speaker, Comrade President, thank you for a comprehensive reply. In keeping with our policy to promote the African Renaissance and the African Agenda, we need to take into account the devastating and debilitating effect of conflict in Africa, as you have pointed out. There cannot be development, economic growth and the eradication of poverty without peace, security, stability and justice in a human rights culture.
The organs of the African Union are still at fledgling level. Some have not as yet been established, for example, the full operation of the continental early warning system in order to avert possible conflict situations. Another example is the fact that we haven't as yet managed to get the African Court of Justice functioning.
For the rule of law, good governance, promotion of democracy ... [Interjections.] The question is: Can we as South Africa ... [Interjections.] [Time expired.]
Hon President, if you want to you can answer that unasked question. [Laughter.]
Speaker, it would be difficult to answer an unasked question because I can just give any answer. I think there will be difficulties. Thank you.
Speaker, Mr President, if we are committed to strengthening peace, security and promoting democracy in Africa, then why is it that we sold more than R64 million worth of category A conventional weapons, which are described as major conventional implements of war, to Sudan in the 2008- 09 financial year? I thank you.
Speaker, well, firstly, this was in the 2008- 09 financial year. I'm sure the hon member knows that I was not part of that decision. How do I then answer the question? [Interjections.] No, I am starting at a point that the hon member should appreciate.
Secondly, there are relations between countries with regard to the sale of weapons. The only thing that can stop the sale of weapons and that can be criticised is when the sale violates international law or the United Nation's rules about the selling of arms. Part of the reason why I started where I did start is that I do not know what the conditions and the details of that sale were. But I never heard that South Africa was debarred from selling arms in Sudan. There may be other issues which I might not be aware of. The question would be more legitimate if South Africa had violated rules or laws by so doing. Thank you.
Somlomo, Mongameli, Sekela Mongameli, neNdlu ehloniphekile, uMongameli ukhulume ngokuthi nePhalamende laseAfrika alinawo amandla. Wakhuluma nokuthi Umkhandlu Wezokuphepha nawo usuzame konke ukuthi lamazwe alapha e-Afrika akwazi ukuthobela umthetho.
Imibuzo yami mibili Mongameli: Okokuqala, kufuneka kwenziwe njani uma kunjalo; okwesibili, kwenziwa yini ngoba kwavunyelwana kuqalwa i-AU ukuthi kube khona ibutho elizokwazi ukuhlanganisa la mazwe ase-Afrika wonke; okwesithathu, kwahamba kwagcinaphi lokho Mongameli? Uma ungakwazi ukubuze kulo okululekayo khona ezokululeka kahle. [Uhleko.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)
[Mr V B NDLOVU: Speaker, President, Deputy President, and this august House, the President spoke about the fact that even the Pan-African Parliament does not have power. He also said that the UN Security Council has also tried everything so that these countries in Africa should abide by the law.
I have two questions, President: Firstly, how can it be done, if it is like that? Secondly, what is the cause, because it was agreed at the inception of the AU that there should be a peacekeeping force that would cover all these countries in Africa? Thirdly, how far did that go President? If you don't know, ask your adviser to advise you. [Laughter.]]
Order! Hon members, this is just to remind you that we are asking supplementary questions and not questions. There should be only one question per person.
UMONGAMELI WERIPHABHULIKHI YASENINGIZIMU AFRIKA: Somlomo, lungu elihloniphekile leNdlu yeSishayamthetho Kazwelonke, Gatsheni, sonke njengamalungu akule Ndlu siyingxenye yaleNdlu yeSishayamthetho sezwekazi lase-Afrika. Nathi sinelungelo lokuba sibe neqhaza esilibambayo ekwenzeleleni ukuthi lokho okwathathwa njengesinqumo kwenzeke njengoba wazi. Ngiyethemba ukuthi amalungu aleNdlu angamalungu aleliya phalamende ayazi ukuthi izinto zihamba kancane kangakanani maqondana nezindaba ezifana naleyo.
Luyaxoxwa udaba njengoba ngishilo, le Ndlu yeSishayamthetho kade kungeyokuthi iyacebisa nje kuphela, kodwa iyashintsha manje ukuthi ibe yiSishayamthetho, isizokwazi ukushaya imithetho. Kusho ukuthi amandla iyawathola manje ngoba sekufikiwe kuleso sinqumo, isizokwazi ukuthi ibe namandla aphelele okukwazi ukushaya umthetho ngendlela okufanele ngayo, ngokuhambisana nokuthi isishayamthetho sezwekazi lase-Afrika akusona isishayamthetho esinjengesishayamthetho sezwe, uyoba khona lowo mehluko. Ngiyabonga. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)
[The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Speaker, hon member of the National Assembly, Gatsheni, all of us as members of this House, we are part of this Pan-African Parliament. We also have a right to lend a hand in making sure that the decisions taken are implemented, as you know. I hope that the Members of this House, who are members of that parliament, know how slow things are, concerning matters like that one.
This matter is being discussed as I have already said - this Pan-African Parliament was established to give advice only, but now it is changing from being an advisory Parliament, to one which will be able to pass legislation. This means that it is gaining power because that decision has been reached. It will be able to have complete power in order to pass legislation in the most befitting manner, which will be that of the Pan- African Parliament and not that of the National Assembly; that will be the difference. Thank you.]
Speaker, hon President, can you assure this House that government is still fully committed to using instruments like the Peer Review Mechanism, Nepad and other relevant instruments that the government of the Republic of South Africa adopted in the past as instruments that can deal with some of the challenges that are referred to in the question, such as matters relating to peace, development and growth within the continent? I thank you.
Speaker, I assure the House of that. [Applause.]
Government policy towards political and economic stability in Zimbabwe
11. The Leader of the Opposition (DA) asked the President of the Republic:
(1) Whether the Government has a different policy towards the political and economic stability in Zimbabwe as compared to the quiet diplomacy of the previous government; if not, what is the position in this regard; if so, what are the relevant details;
2) whether he has been informed of a certain document (details furnished) that was submitted to his office on 23 October 2009; if not, what is the position in this regard; if so,
3) whether the Government will consider implementing the proposals contained therein; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details? N02638E
Hon Speaker, South Africa's approach to the political and economic challenges facing Zimbabwe is premised on the sovereign right of the people of Zimbabwe to determine their own future. Its approach is guided by the common values and objectives of the Southern African Development Community, to which both countries belong.
Our response needs to be located within the positions adopted by multilateral institutions such as SADC and the African Union. As is commonly known, SADC has been engaged with the parties in Zimbabwe in pursuit of a solution. Under the auspices of SADC, the main political parties to the political dialogue concluded and signed the Global Political Agreement which in turn formed the basis for the formation of the inclusive government in Zimbabwe. As part of SADC, we have consistently worked towards ensuring that all of the terms and conditions of the Global Political Agreement, GPA, are implemented by all parties.
As the chairperson of SADC, from August 2008 to September 2009, South Africa played a central role in facilitating the current agreement. There have been some notable achievements since the inception of the agreement, including the establishment of an inclusive government, an improved political environment and progress towards economic recovery. Where obstacles have been identified, we have wasted no time in interacting with all role-players, particularly the Zimbabwean protagonists, to impress upon them, both publicly and in private discussions, to remain true to the commitments contained in the GPA.
To this end, South Africa participated in the Summit of the Troika of the Organ on Politics, Defence and Security Co-operation, which met in Mozambique on 5 November 2009. The summit decided that the three political parties, signatories to the GPA, should engage in dialogue with immediate effect, within 15 days and not beyond 30 days. This dialogue should include all the outstanding issues emanating from the implementation of the GPA and SADC communiqu of 27 January 2009.
The summit confirmed South Africa as the facilitator on behalf of SADC and charged it to remain seized with the developments on the implementation of the GPA. We are required to evaluate progress and to report back to the Chairperson of the Organ on Politics, Defence and Security Co-operation. South Africa will, therefore, be engaging with the parties in Zimbabwe, in the coming days and weeks, to assist them to resolve all outstanding matters within the deadlines to which they have all agreed.
The difficulties experienced in fully implementing the GPA should not cause us to abandon this agreement, as some have proposed. The progress that has been made should, instead, encourage us to work harder to resolve the few outstanding issues. The contents of the document referred to in paragraph two of the question are being studied and will be accorded the necessary consideration.
It is, nevertheless, important to reiterate the point of principle, that the people of Zimbabwe have a sovereign right to determine their own future. Our role, as South Africa and the broader international community, is to provide whatever assistance we can to ensure the resolution of the challenges they face. South Africa is fully supportive of the Global Political Agreement and is committed to the decisions that SADC has taken on this matter. I thank you.
Speaker, hon President, thank you very much for your response, and noting that Zimbabwe, in exercising their sovereign rights, established a Global Political Agreement and that South Africa respects that, and that Robert Mugabe seems to respect it in the breach, and that there has been an undertaking that they will revisit the GPA within 15 days and not longer than 30 days; if, when you visit Zimbabwe in 15 days' time, you find that there's ongoing disregard of the GPA and ongoing persecution of MDC, Movement for Democratic Change, members and ongoing land grabs under Zanu PF, will you ask SADC to take punitive action against Zimbabwe or will you ask that fresh elections be held, having considered that the MDC actually won the elections and they have the majority support in Zimbabwe?
Hon Speaker, I'm sure that the hon member is aware that we cannot go to a country and dictate - tell them what to do and what not to do. Our function, as decided by the SADC organ, is to help and indeed evaluate. And if, in the evaluation, we think that the parties have not done what was asked, we'll certainly engage the parties and encourage them to do so.
Of course, our function is to report back to SADC whatever we have found out and SADC will probably then take whatever decision. We cannot go there and tell them what to do and what not to do. I don't think that would be facilitating. Our function is to help evaluate if there are difficulties, and, if there are any, help them overcome those difficulties. If it does not work, then we report back to those who had sent us to Zimbabwe, and I'm sure SADC will then take the appropriate steps. [Applause.]
Hon Speaker, the President has indeed responded to the question by making reference to the meeting of the troika held in Maputo and the mechanisms that have been put in place in dealing with that.
What I just want to check with the President is whether or not South Africa, and even SADC, has the right to undermine the sovereignty of Zimbabwe, as suggested by the opposition? Thank you.
Hon Speaker, no, South Africa has no such a right. There's no country that has a right to undermine the sovereignty of any other country. It's unheard of; it shouldn't happen.
Speaker, hon President, given that the solving of the Zimbabwean question is critical to the growth and stability of the South African economy, is the hon President optimistic about the future of the Government of National Unity in Zimbabwe? If so, what does he base that optimism on? Thank you.
Hon Speaker, I believe that the agreement will be implemented. Firstly, you know that there was no agreement before; the situation was very serious in Zimbabwe after the elections. In fact, no one thought that these two parties could have an agreement. They engaged in interaction and negotiations and finally emerged with an agreement.
Initially, the agreement was very difficult to implement. Then there was a SADC summit which had agreed to specific matters, which then called for them to implement the agreement; and they have implemented it.
A number of issues have been covered in the agreement, but there are others that have not. Some agreements have already been reached and some decisions are in the process of being implemented. However, that is not a reason for me not to believe that the agreement will succeed.
The other point is that there is no alternative, for now. That agreement is the only route, so far, that the Zimbabweans have to solve their problems, and I think our function is to help them. They work together and respect one another in their operations. Even when the MDC said that they were disengaging from the government of national unity, they did not say "We are pulling out". I think that indicates the commitment of that party, which they have stated. I think the fact that it's now six months later, shows that they are trying their level best.
They were part of the summit in Maputo and again they committed themselves to the agreement. I think there is no reason for one to believe that they cannot succeed. Thank you.
Mr Speaker, the President said that there is notable improvement in Zimbabwe; I don't see that. What I see in Zimbabwe is hunger and a person who lost an election and rules as a dictator, whose people are leaving that country in their millions and coming to South Africa to live here, causing huge problems for us.
I think all the negotiations are a waste of time and the person who laughs last is Mugabe. I think the time has come for the President of this country to protect South Africa from the influence of that dictator and take steps for a general election to be held there, so that the true representatives of Zimbabwe can rule and so that Zimbabweans can go back to Zimbabwe, so that we can have peace here. Mugabe must go! [Applause.]
Hon Speaker, the hon member says that he does not see progress in Zimbabwe. Certainly, he has never been to Zimbabwe, so he can't have seen it. I have been to Bulawayo and I have been to Harare in Zimbabwe, invited to an agricultural show there, and there is certainly a marked difference. Even the delegation that came from the EU, which travelled to Zimbabwe from South Africa, admitted that there is progress in that country, because they went to Zimbabwe and they saw it. The hon member has never been to Zimbabwe; that's why he hasn't seen it. So I don't blame him. Thank you.
Position regarding publication of records of complaints received through presidential hotline
12. Rev H M Dandala (Cope) asked the President of the Republic:
(1) Whether he will publish the records of complaints received through the presidential hotline; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details;
(2) whether any person has been investigated as a result of the presidential hotline; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details? NO2640E
Hon Speaker, the presidential hotline was established as part of an enhanced public liaison capacity within the Presidency. Its objective is to provide redress for members of the public who have not been adequately assisted by the structures and processes of government, as well as for those who are too far from where government centres or offices are found.
The hotline is an important part of our effort to improve the accessibility, responsiveness and transparency of government. We will therefore be publishing, on a regular basis, reports on the complaints received through the hotline. We will also indicate what responses or actions have been taken to address the matters raised.
I have requested the public liaison unit in the Presidency to develop a standard reporting format that will enable us to make public a detailed report on the matters handled by the presidential hotline. This will assist us in understanding the nature and extent of the challenges our people face and, importantly, also in monitoring how these issues are being attended to by government departments. We will then be able to check progress over time.
We are committed to making available as much relevant information as possible, without compromising confidentiality and the privacy of any callers or other individuals. The hotline has received a number of corruption-related allegations. These have been forwarded to the relevant departments or entities affected.
However, owing to the sensitive nature of the information and the fact that these are still at the stage of being allegations, divulging details could compromise any subsequent investigation that may follow. It could also prejudice the rights of those against whom allegations have been made. I thank you.
Hon Speaker, I'd like to commend the President on the establishment of the presidential hotline and also just indicate that Cope does support the money that has been voted to strengthen the Presidency's initiative on this matter.
I also appreciate the fact that you are not only publishing the complaints, but also the action taken. I think that is the most critical part, as we saw in the case of Home Affairs recently, when they published the action that was taken in the Pinetown case. I'd like to commend you on that, sir. [Applause.]
Hon Speaker, I really appreciate the comments by the hon member. I think that is what we need as we deal with matters in the country; that even if people are in opposition, their appreciation of what is right is noted. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Hon Speaker, I think hon C T Msimang's button was pressed in error, so we can take one more question.
Hon President, thank you very much for your response. Given the fact that so many complaints were lodged with your Office, and were received, does it not indicate that the departments against which many of these complaints were lodged are not living up to the adage of "government for the people by the people"? Does it not indicate that they, themselves, should set up hotlines to deal with some of these problems that have been brought to the attention of the President?
I say this, Mr President, because, while the Presidency has the role of monitoring and evaluation, it shouldn't become the switchboard of government, because government departments themselves need to ensure that they attend to complaints that people lodge. Thank you.
Hon Speaker, yes, departments do have their own liaison units. However, we believed that it was important to set up this hotline in addition to those that were already there. This was partly to put together those kinds of concerns and complaints.
One of the realities is that if departments are at fault and people complain about them, at times you might not get everything fixed. I was very interested to know in greater detail what is happening. Other people might not have an opportunity to get through to departments. I'm not certain, for example, the extent to which departments have publicised the kind of numbers that people must call.
Furthermore, departments also deal with different aspects. I think having a number that is known nationally adds value to what the departments are doing. It is also worth noting that if you phone the Presidency, you can reach any department. You are not subjected to one specific line, so much so that if you don't get through, you have a problem.
I think the concerns and complaints that have been coming through indicate the importance of this hotline. I'm sure you will recall that on the first day, a lady from the Eastern Cape raised the issue that she could not get money due to her following the death of her husband and the fact that she was being sent from pillar to post by people who wanted the money for themselves. Once the issue was raised, we were able, as the Presidency, to trace the money to the Eastern Cape, and now she has received her money. If she had called any department - in fact, she had done so and she was frustrated.
There are many such cases. For example, in one province there is a report that will be coming out soon indicating that, following the complaints and concerns raised, further investigations were carried out and it was discovered that things were even worse than was suggested in the complaints. Government had to take action.
So, I think that these measures complement each other. They are neither a waste of time nor are they something unnecessary. I think the hotline adds value to what departments are doing. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr President, the ID remains concerned that the hotline, in its current form, offers no hope to the rural, poor communities that bear the brunt of government's poor service delivery record.
The hotline only benefits those in urban areas because it is only toll-free from a landline. Are we waiting for the hon Patricia de Lille to bring down cellphone rates first, or can you immediately give our rural people the same rights to contact your Office? Thank you.
Hon Speaker, the hon member, unfortunately, is not informed: People from the rural areas are connecting. The lady that I just mentioned as an example comes from the area of Flagstaff, which is a rural area. They are, in fact, calling in and they are connecting.
I'm sure that the liaison people could give you some information in this regard. So, that statement is not accurate; they are connecting. Thank you.
Hon speaker, hon President, whilst Cope eagerly welcomed the hotline initiative, can we at least get an assurance that when the people of South Africa help the Office of the Presidency in rooting out corruption and any act that sullies the work of government, their safety will be guaranteed so that this good work of the government can continue? Thank you.
Hon Speaker, certainly, the liaison unit is handling that; we do not breach confidentiality when it comes to information that implicates other people. We are very careful that we do not do that, so we protect the confidentiality of information supplied and deal with the issues. The reason people have the confidence to call this line is because they know that it is handled with great care. So, I agree with you, that concern is appreciated and we do guarantee confidentiality. Thank you. [Applause.]
See also QUESTIONS AND REPLIES.