Madam Deputy Chairperson, regarding the issue of municipal managers we have conducted an assessment to check the vacancy rate relating to municipal managers. We know as a matter of fact that about 78% of positions of municipal managers have been filled. This is a marginal improvement on the 72% vacancies filled. Only 12% of vacancies have not been filled. This is the situation even with regard to section 57 managers, who make up the 78%. We have not carried out assessments of municipal managers according to whether they are performing well in terms of performance agreements.
Secondly, we have not been able to look at municipal managers that have not done their work. This is an ongoing process and something that we are looking at on an ongoing basis. Once the information in this regard is available, we'll be able to present it to you. We have not checked to see if there are any municipal managers that have not complied with their performance agreements. However, again, this is an ongoing process. Thank you very much.
Deputy Chair, I'd like to ask the Minister a follow-up question. Firstly, there are many municipal managers that have signed contracts and have certainly not complied with their performance contracts, and yet they get paid or give themselves large bonuses. What is going to happen in this regard?
Another follow-up question is: Are these contracts going to be standardised, for example, for the metropolitan municipalities or according to the grade of the municipality? What is the Minister's opinion on that? Thank you.
Deputy Chairperson, the issue of municipal managers who have not complied with these contracts but have received bonuses is something we are dealing with on an ongoing basis. At this point in time, we can't say with authority and confidence that we know for sure that this municipal manager in this municipality has not complied with his or her performance contract. Once we are through with the process, we'll engage you on it.
However, amongst other things, we want to include in the performance contracts of municipal managers the issue of management of resources, the lack of which gives rise to adverse qualified opinions, including disclaimers. If, as a municipal manager, you get these, you must not get money as a bonus.
We are looking at the possibility of standardisation, so that we are able to compare apples to apples. Of course, different situations prevail in different municipalities. However, overall we want to look at the things they have in common and the ways in which they differ. We don't want to use a one-size-fits-all solution to the problems.
This system, hon Worth, is evolving, and I think that all of us must be patient and allow it to evolve fully so that it can suit the conditions that obtain, subjectively and objectively, at a given time.
Measures implemented to address poor service delivery by municipalities and action taken to stop fraud and corruption
54. Mr H B Groenewald (DA) asked the Minister for Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs:
(1) Whether the government has implemented any measures to address poor service delivery by municipalities; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details;
(2) whether any action will be taken to stop fraud and corruption, including mismanagement in municipalities; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details? CO184E
Chairperson, the issue of service delivery is a serious challenge. In South Africa we have conducted the state of municipalities. It has been the most comprehensive process that has been conducted to date. This process of the state of municipalities has revealed a lot of things. Amongst other things it has revealed is an issue of the levels of backlogs in each and every municipality and province in relation to water, sanitation, electricity and refuse removal at a broader level. We have come to the conclusion that for South Africa to reach the Millennium Development Goals on sanitation by 2014, we must provide over 600 000 facilities to each and every household every year; for us to ensure that we have universal access to electricity, we must deliver over 300 000 connections to each household every year so that we can reach the 2014 goal; and for us to have access to water in South Africa, we must deliver over 200 000 connections to each household. Therefore, going forward, this requires a lot of resources, and it is something we are engaging upon.
We are looking at these measures to ensure that we accelerate service delivery. We are also looking at these matters in a way that takes us forward. It is not only this; we are also looking at local economic development. We have to broaden the cake because the tax base and revenue of municipalities have declined over time. About 95% of municipalities were told that they should raise their own revenue. This situation no longer obtains. It is a challenge; it is something we are looking at, going forward.
The issue of fraud and corruption is of serious concern to us. We believe that all of us - without exception - from all sectors and structures of our society and all classes, should come together against corruption. In fact, if we had been speaking in another forum we would have been saying that corruption is an antinational democratic revolution, because it benefits a few at the expense of the majority. This is something that must be tackled and dealt with.
We are developing mechanisms in the turnaround strategy to indicate that we are dealing with this. We will be signing a contract and an agreement - a memorandum of understanding - with the Special Investigation Unit led by Willie Hofmeyr. We are interacting and interlocking with the Hawks under Mr Dramat. Therefore, we are going in big time to ensure that we deal with these things. In this respect, we are calling upon all parties to come to the party. If we can manage to stop this rot, we will have also done so for those coming after us. In fact, they will thank us for having been decisive in dealing with these issues. I thank you.
Deputy Chairperson, I am the one who asked this question. I come from the North West province. In our province, 18 of 23 municipalities are in a bad condition. In your answer you spoke about what is happening in South Africa at this stage and about the backlogs we've had. But how are we going to address these backlogs? That is what I want to know.
You also invited us to take part in the whole process regarding fraud and mismanagement, and I really appreciate that. But how are we going to address municipalities which have these backlogs? For example, I know that the people of Tswaing wrote letters to you regarding what is happening in their area. There's a place named Iraq, where there is only one water tap. A few minutes ago you laughed about the Western Cape, but there is only one water tap. There are no toilets and roads, and a thousand people are flocking together. There is nothing happening from government's side. So, I want to know what it is that we are going to do to help these people.
Deputy Chairperson, to say that nothing has happened is being a bit liberal with the truth. I will tell you what happened. You know that the issue of water is the responsibility of the district municipality. We found out that R168 million was sitting in the bank of the district municipality called Ngaka Modiri Molema. The mayor in that municipality didn't have the political will to act. We had to put the mayor aside so that service delivery could take place. We now have an acting municipal manager who is running the municipality as we speak. The acting municipal manager has removed the chief executive officer in that district municipality so that we can go to the municipality.
We have deployed engineers to that municipality and they are working with us. There is a woman called Carrim, who has been very vocal. She even went to the President to raise the issues of Tswaing. We are working with them to solve the issues there. They withheld payment for services and put it in trust accounts. We are discussing the issue of releasing these resources in order to deal with these things. This is the specificity of the Tswaing Municipality issue and the district you were talking about.
Let me come to the North West. North West is the first province to actually open our eyes. From 6 March to 21 April we conducted a thorough investigation, where I was personally involved. We came up with a very seriously telling report, which we are using to turn things around in that province. One of the most important things you must know is that generally the North West does not have water. It is a water-scarce province. We are looking at measures for ensuring that we are able to deal with this at a specific level. But at a broader level I can assure you that the people of the North West deserve better. Currently they are not getting what they deserve.
We are moving in. You will hear about dramatic things, serious things and a decisive leadership in the next few weeks, which is aimed at ensuring that people in that province are getting what they deserve. Therefore, we are telling you to fasten your seat belts for good things to come. I thank you. [Applause.]
Deputy Chairperson, the Minister spoke with passion on the issue of service delivery and corruption. But I want to ask the Minister if he and his team are prepared to make an intervention in the Saldanha Bay Municipality, where a municipal manager refused to put a report in front of the council in which 24 senior officers have been implicated in corrupt practices in a tender process.
The other point is about Chatsworth, a cold place in Malmesbury, where people are still using the bucket system. I want to make a plea to the Minister to use his task team to fast-track service delivery in these two places. He should also deal with issues of corrupt practices taking place in the Saldanha Bay Municipality. I thank you. [Interjections.]
Baba usho entshweni. Khuluma thina siyashesha. [You have hit the nail on the head, sir. Just say it and we will do it very quickly.]
We will be moving to Saldanha Bay, and you will get the report. We will also move to Malmesbury in the area that you are talking about. MEC Bredell in the Western Cape was once a mayor in that area, and he comes from there. This is an area he is very proud of. We will go and look at the issues there. For more details you can contact Mr Jazz Mokoena on the eleventh floor on the opposite side of the road. You can go and see him. He is available 24/7; you can go and talk to him. He will deal with these issues together with his team. In fact, we are doing what we can. You must come forward with information and judge us on whether we are taking any action. We can promise you that we will spare no effort; we will act. We are not just going to leave bad things as they are. We are encouraging all other members to do the same and follow your example. Even if you have a gripe with the area, it's all right. You must come with the information and we will act on it. I thank you.
Sihlalo, uNgqongqoshe uSokude asimbongele ukuthi cha, uyashaya impela futhi ushaya khona. Baze basho bathi banele impela. Ngqongqoshe Sokude ngifuna ukubuza lapha ukuthi uMnyango wakho ingabe ukhona yini okwenzayo ukufundisa imiphakathi ngezindaba zokulethwa kwezidingo? Nokuthi uyalibamba yini iqhaza kulokhu okufanele kwenziwe nguMnyango - ngoba kukhona okunye kufanele kwenziwe umasipala wasekhaya kuthi okunye kufanele kwenziwe umasipala wesifunda? Ikhona yini into eyenziwayo ukufundisa umphakathi ngezindaba zokulethwa kwezidingo nibambisene ninguhulumeni omkhulu, wesiFundazwe kanye nowaseKhaya na? Ngiyabonga sihlalo.
UNGQONGQOSHE KAHULUMENI WOKUBAMBISANA KANYE NEZINDABA ZEZENDABUKO: Baba Magadlela, engakusho ukuthi esikuthola eMnyangweni kunesakhiwo laphaya. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)
[Mr D D GAMEDE: Chairperson, let us be grateful for the hon Minister Sokude because he is very impressive. People have even said that they are really impressed. Hon Minister Sokude, I just want to hear from you whether there is anything that your department does to educate communities about issues of service delivery? And whether it plays a role in delivering services which need its expertise - as there are some services which are the responsibility of local government while others fall under the jurisdiction of a district municipality? Are you doing anything to educate communities about co-operation with regard to service delivery amongst yourselves as national government, provincial government and local government? Thank you, Chairperson.
Hon Magadlela, what I said was that whatever we receive in the department has a structure.]
There is an academy for local government. It is called the Local Government Leadership Academy, Logola. That is a shell academy ...
... ngoba baba ayisebenzi leyanto leya. Sifuna ukuyivusa ke manje siyimise ngezinyawo sizokwazi ukufundisa abantu ngezindaba zombuso, hhayi kuphela baba ngentuthuko yomphakathi kodwa sifuna ukufundisa nje abantu bazi ngezigaba ezahlukene zomasipala nang ezigaba ezahlukene zohulumeni abakhona kuleli lizwe lakithi - uhulumeni omkhulu, owesiFundazwe kanye nabaseKhaya; nokuthi ingabe basebenza kanjani. Ukuthi ini yenziwa ubani, kuphi ngoba uma sibona abantu bebhikisha, babhikishela uhulumeni waseKhaya ngoba useduze nabo. Uthola ukuthi ngesinye isikhathi bafuna izidingo ezinganikezwa uhulumeni wasekhaya - njengezindlu nje kanye nokunye okungaqondene nohulumeni wasekhaya. Yingakho-ke ngithanda ukufundisa umphakathi ngalezi zigaba zohulumeni, kanti futhi yinto ebesizitshele ukuthi sizoyenza leyo.
Abanye abantu okudingeka sibafundise ngamakhansela. Si kholwa wukuthi amakhansela nawo adinga ukuqeqeshwa ngoba uthola ukuthi ubukade ungumuntu nje womphakathi kuthi ngakusasa uzibone usuyimeya. Awunalwazi lokuthi kufuneka wenzeni futhi kwesinye isikhathi ucabange ukuthi ukuba yimeya wenza izinto ngendlela othanda ngayo kube sengathi uphethe isiphaza shop. Siyitholile imibiko enjalo kwezinye izindawo - ukuthi uMeya uvele atshele izisebenzi zikahulumeni ukuthi zenze ukuthi nokuthi ngoba efuna ukwenza i- party lapha nenye laphaya. Akazi ukuthi kunento okudingeka yenziwe ukulandela umthetho kuhulumeni basekhaya.
Futhi sifuna nokuqeqesha amakomidi amawadi akhona kanye nama-CTWU. Ngikhuluma nawe nje baba Magadlela sizoqala uchungachunge lokuvakashela izifundazwe sihamba nozakwethu umhlonishwa ubaba uBaloyi . Siyaqala ngeSonto, sizoqala khona lapha eNtshonalnga Kapa, sizobakulendawo izinsuku ezintathu, iSonto, u Msobuluko kanye noLwesibili. Sizobe sihamba noMphenyi Mabhuku Omkhulu kusho ukuthi kuzobe kuyikalishi (Troika) ezobe ihamba lendawo. Sizohlangana ne Khabinethi yesifundazwe sihlangane nama-CTWU sihlangane namakomidi amawodi wonke, namakhosi uma ekhona. Kanti ngizwile ukuthi ubaba uManuel naye kuthiwa yinkosi yamaKhoisan la ekhaya. Naye uzoba yingxenye yaleli thimba simbizele ukuthi azoba yinkosi ekhona.
Sizobe sesihlangana futhi nawo wonke amakhansela akhona esiFundazweni ukuze sixoxe nawo. Yikho esiyokwenza kulolu chungechunge - ukuthi yini abantu abacabanga ukuthi yenziwe ukwenza ngcono ohulumeni basemakhaya. Ngaleyo ndlela-ke Magadlela sithi: cha, baba isilingene, ingangathi ngakho-ke siyobhekana nayo ngqo! Siyinkanka la inamandla ngakhona. Siyibamba ngezimpondo lapho inamandla khona. Ngiyabonga baba. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)
[... because that thing is not working, sir. We now want to get it on its feet so that we can educate people about governance and not only about community development. We also want to educate people about the different levels of municipalities as well as the different levels of government that obtain in our country - national government, provincial government and local government; and the way they function. We want to educate people in respect of which sphere of government does what and where, because when we see people protesting, they protest against the local government because it is closer to them.
You find that sometimes they demand services that are not rendered by local government - services like housing and others which are not the municipalities' responsibility. That is why I would like to educate the communities about these levels of government, and that is what we have planned to do.
Councillors also need training, because you find that today you are just an ordinary community member and then the next day you are a mayor. You do not have a clue about what is expected of you and sometimes you think that being a mayor warrants you doing as you please as if you are running your spaza shop. We received such reports from some areas - that a mayor just instructed public servants to do this and that just because he wanted to host a party here and another one somewhere else. He is not aware that there are some processes and procedures that need to be followed in accordance with the Local Government act.
We also want to train the existing ward committees and the CTWUs as well. As I am speaking to you now, hon Magadlela, my colleague hon Baloyi and I will be making a series of visits to the provinces. We will be starting on Sunday, and we will start here in the Western Cape. We will be here for three days, from Sunday to Tuesday. The Auditor-General will also be with us and this means that this place will be visited by the troika. We will meet the Cabinet of the provincial legislature, the CTWUs, all the ward committees and Amakhosi if there are any here. And I heard that hon Manuel is also an Inkosi of the Khoisan people here. He will also be a part of this entourage - we asked him to be an existing Inkosi.
We will also meet with all the councillors from the province to discuss some issues with them. That is what we are going to do during this series of visits - to find out what people think must be done to improve the standard of service delivery from local governments. In that way, hon Magadlela, we are saying that: yes sir, we are equal to the task. We will, therefore, tackle it head on! We attack its stronghold. Thank you, sir.]
Deputy Chairperson, firstly I would like to congratulate the Minister for the work done so far. But I am quite concerned about the issue of empowering people. I was actually wondering if there is any criterion for appointing a councillor or whether the department is working on something like that. Is there any educational programme in place or are we just pumping in money trying to rectify and better our lives? We can pump in money, but if education is not there, it is fruitless.
In as far as ward committees are concerned, which are the grass roots of a municipality, I would like to know from the hon Minister if there is anything on the table or in the pipeline in this regard? We as Cope are prepared to put something on the table. I would appreciate your response. Thank you, Minister.
Hon member, you have raised a question with two parts. Firstly, you asked about whether councillors are capacitated. I think you would know that Ministers work with what they have and that councillors are deployed by political parties. This means that I must use whatever I have in institutions. As I have already indicated earlier on in response to the hon Watty, we are looking at governance values. We would like to ensure from the start that we have a good product with good capacity and quality. Going forward we will be discussing these governance values - how to ensure that things are happening.
On the issue of ward committees I must say that the issue of training in South Africa has been abused. Millions and millions have been spent, but if you look at the outcomes, they are very weak. People are like a duck that enters the water and comes out dry. That is why we want to centralise the whole question of training so that we can look at its quality and ensure that whatever money is spent, is worthwhile - that we get value for money.
Training will be done across the country. Earlier on we discussed that we were going to intensify training. But we must do this in a way in which we will get value for money, so that we can appreciate the product and be proud of it. We are attending to this matter and we would like to ensure that South Africa gets better. Thank you very much.
Order! Hon members, I think I am going to be a bit harsh. The two other Ministers that are supposed to be answering to questions are running out of time. They also have to leave just like Minister Shiceka. So, I hope nobody is going to say I'm being impossible. Thank you.
Thanks very much, hon Minister Shiceka, for all you have said to us. I hope everybody has been taking notes. You are now relieved of your duties. [Applause.]
Challenges facing municipalities and provinces in fostering integrated planning
44. Ms N D Ntwanambi (ANC) asked the Minister in the Presidency: National Planning Commission:
(1) Whether his department has undertaken an assessment in respect of some of the challenges facing municipalities and provinces in fostering integrated planning between municipalities and provinces; if not, what is the position in this regard; if so, how is his department planning to address these challenges to ensure that policies, principles and programmes of municipalities and provinces are informed by national priorities;
(2) whether he will consider sending such assessment and/or report to the National Council of Provinces by 2010; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details? CO171E Interface of mandate of National Planning Commission regarding national planning and development of Integrated Development Plans (IDPs)
45. Mr R J Tau (ANC) asked the Minister in the Presidency: National Planning Commission:
Whether, since taking office, he had discussions with the Minister or the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs on the interface of the mandate of the Commission regarding issues of (a) national planning and (b) the development of Integrated Development Plans (IDPs) by municipalities; if not, (i) why not and (ii) how does he plan to link these two processes; if so, what are the relevant details?