Hon Chairperson, Ministers and Deputy Ministers, hon Members of Parliament, invited guests and comrades, I also want to congratulate the Minister. Fortunately, I have answers for the DA. [Applause.] Minister, you are going to deal with the academics; I want to teach them politics.
The month of April is very important to the ANC. It is a reminder of its fallen heroes, amongst whom are the former President of the ANC, Oliver Tambo, Comrade Chris Hani and Comrade Steve Tshwete, who fought for the liberation of this country. [Applause.]
I want to pose some questions to people in the House. Who were the drafters of apartheid laws for 300 years? [Interjections.] Who decided on the Group Areas Act and repressive laws? Who are the people who did that?
I'm asking these questions because we have a backlog in ensuring that all South Africans have access to water, grants for the elderly, houses for the homeless, education for children, and police stations and clinics for communities. These are the services that many of us South Africans were deprived of during many years of apartheid governance. [Interjections.] Uyandiphazamisa! [You are disturbing me!] [Laughter.]
Most people, especially from the DA, must understand that they are the cause. [Interjections.] They are the cause! Apartheid existed and left the legacy of a huge backlog in service delivery, which will not disappear easily.
As you know, poverty is the greatest contradiction of any society that claims it is civilised. Our country finds itself battling with the type of social conditions that make it difficult for any human being to develop, social conditions that we, as the ANC, have long committed ourselves to overcoming, social conditions that have undermined our democratic proclamation of freedom.
We are wondering why, during election campaigns in the poorest areas, these same people advocate that everyone has the means to improve their quality of life. [Interjections.] When the DA is dancing in the townships, benxibe iiteki kwiilokishi zethu [wearing takkies in our townships], can't they see for themselves the social ills that the legacy of apartheid has created? This is a society that is characterised by inequalities that manifest themselves as a huge backlog in service delivery. Can't they see that without the decisive action and the policies of the ANC government, of ensuring a better quality of life for all, a great number of the people in our country would not have enjoyed improved living conditions, would not have accessed income through social grants and better housing, and would not have had access to electricity, water and sanitation? Nimamele? [Are you listening?]
Despite the backlog that we in the ANC government still battle to overcome, ngenxa yenu [because of you] ... [Interjections.] ... government is redressing imbalances created by the past apartheid regime. They should acknowledge the huge backlog facing the country, instead of pointing fingers.
We are here to continue fulfilling the mandate of realising a better quality of life for all South Africans. Our track record with regard to the resolution of having an equal and liberated South Africa stretches back as far as 1912. [Applause.] That is why, today, the Department of Social Development has set targets to be met by 2014.
In line with the ruling party's goal of ensuring that all children have access to education early in life, in the years that are most critical in the development of a child, through early childhood development, ECD, the department will accelerate the implementation of ECD programmes to ensure that every child is given a good start in life. [Interjections.] Andifuni nokuthetha ngawe ke wena. [I don't even want to talk about you.] [Interjections.]
The number of children in the ECD sites subsidised by the government has increased. The Minister has already touched on the number of ECD centres that are benefiting from the grant; I'm not going to repeat that. [Interjections.]
The DA today - khanimamele! [please listen!] - claims to be the champion of fighting poverty. Bayazela phi indlala? [What do they know about poverty?] [Interjections.] You ask yourselves why children died of kwashiorkor and polio. Here's Mrs Stompi; we were nurses together in Gugulethu and in Khayelitsha. There were cases of polio and kwashiorkor. I'm telling you, balubulele uluntu aba bantu. [... these people have killed a lot of people.] [Interjections.]
Studies show that the social assistance programme has expanded access to social grants to 15 million beneficiaries, 10 million of whom are children who receive child support. [Interjections.]
Hon Tshwete ... [Interjections.]
Studies have shown that the child support grant has had a positive impact on the wellbeing ...
Hon Tshwete, will you take your seat please? Hon member, what is your point of order?
Hon Chairperson, can I please extend an invitation to the hon member to come and visit my constituency, so that she can see what the DA has done? [Interjections.]
That is not a point of order. Please continue.
Chair, please give me back my minutes. Support grants have a positive impact on the wellbeing of families, particularly on increasing consumption levels of families.
In addition, South Africa has managed to eradicate cases of polio due to government's focus on providing better access to primary health care. Furthermore, statistics shows us that from 2001 malnutrition in children under five years declined from 25%, to 5,5% in 2009. Uyawubona loo mahluko ungako ngenxa ye-ANC? [Can you see that difference because of the ANC?] [Applause.] These achievements should encourage us to do more, Minister, especially in the poverty-stricken areas. We do want to say thank you to the ANC. [Interjections.]
The department identified priorities and set targets to be met by 2014. These have been identified to contribute towards government outcomes. I want to touch on the outcomes, but I'm not going to go through them. If they want this speech, they must go to ITC; it will help them in their workshop on understanding what we mean by the ANC. I'm only going to mention the topics.
The first one is quality basic education - we know what that is. You know, the graduates that are here today can tell you how they grew up. They don't know how they managed to get their degrees, because their mothers were domestic workers - Bantu education. It's the laws that these people, for 300 years ... [Interjections.]
Madam Chairperson, a point of order, please.
The department intends to reduce new HIV and Aids infections by 50% by 2014. In addition ...
Hon speaker.
Madam Chairperson, a point of order, please.
Hon Tshwete ...
In addition, 2014 ...
Hon Tshwete, will you please take your seat?
Oo, uxolo. [Oh, my apologies.] [Laughter.]
What is your point of order, madam?
She's talking about the laws that "these people" made. We strongly object to being referred to as "these people". We are members and they are not the laws that we made. [Interjections.]
That's not unparliamentary.
Okay, then. I'm not going to say "these people"; I'm going to say "the DA".
Madam Chairperson, I raised a point of order. Could you please rule on it?
The department intends to reduce ... [Interjections.]
Madam Chair, would you please rule on the point of order?
The department intends to reduce HIV and Aids infections ...
Will you please sit down? Hon Tshwete, when I ask you to speak, then you will get up and speak. Let her finish her point of order; otherwise we can't hear each other.
Sorry, Chair.
Can you repeat what you were saying, hon member?
Madam Chairperson, the member who was speaking referred to people on the opposite side as "these people who made the apartheid laws". [Interjections.] I object on two grounds: her referring to members of the opposition as "these people" and that we made the apartheid laws. Some of the people who made apartheid laws are sitting right behind her, and I'm now referring to member Gaum. [Interjections.]
Do you mind if I rule on this? Will you please be quiet? It is part of the debate. I see people on that side of the House who didn't make the laws of apartheid, so it's a matter of conjecture. As far as I'm concerned that is not a point of order, and the speaker will continue. Thank you. [Applause.]
Madam Chairperson ...
I'm not going to go through the details ...
Madam Chairperson, still on the point of order: You ruled on the fact that she might refer to the people who made laws or didn't make laws, but you didn't rule on referring to members as "these people". Is that acceptable?
Hon Chairperson ... [Interjections.]
Will you please be quiet? It was you who said that there were people on this side of the House and this side of the House who made apartheid laws, so I'm not going into this debate. As far as I'm concerned it's not a point of order. I'm not taking that point of order. Can you please continue with the debate? [Applause.]
I'm not going to go through the details of the outcomes, but I'm only going to mention topics: quality basic education; a long and healthy life for all South Africans; safety for all people in South Africa; decent employment through inclusive growth; and vibrant, equitable, sustainable rural communities contributing towards food security.
I have good answers for the DA again, concerning the SA Social Security Agency, Sassa, and I want to say this in my own language, of which I am proud, isiXhosa.
Ndifuna ukuba nibe nombono kamakhulu wam uMaMntande endakhula phantsi kwakhe esamkela iiponti ezi-2,10 ngekota. Wayendithuma evenkileni, kwakusekho iswekile yetiki ngoko, athi ndiye kuthenga iswekile yetiki. Aba mama naba bantu balapha bafunde njalo. Abayazi ke aba intlupheko. Wayendithuma ukuba ndiye kuthenga iswekile yetiki neti yetiki. Kwakuphambi kuka-1994 ngoko. Ngoku u-Sassa uzama ukukhawulelana nale ndlala, ebekwe liSebe loPhuhliso lwezeNtlalo.
Kukho nesigama sesiXhosa esenziwa yintlupheko eseza negama lomcuku. Asoze uve kukhalwa ngomcuku ngoku. Aba bantwana bethu abawazi umcuku. Kukho negxogxa, abantu baza kukuxelela ukuba yintoni igxogxa, kuba sasingavunyelwa ukuba sisele iti, kwakufuneka silinde abantu abadala bagqibe ukuphunga ze sifumane nathi emveni koko. Le ngxowana inamagqabi eti ingahlala iveki kuman' kusenziwa iti ngayo. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)
[I want you to imagine my grandmother, MaMntande, who raised me earning E2,10 per quarter. She used to send me to the shop. There was a packet of sugar which cost a tickey then, and she used to say I must go and buy it. The women and people who are here went through their studies that way. These don't know poverty. She used to send me to buy sugar and tea worth a tickey. That was before 1994. Now, Sassa is trying to combat this poverty, authorised by the Department of Social Development.
There is also isiXhosa terminology which was coined because of poverty and that term is "umcuku", a crumbly mealie meal with "amarhewu", a thick drink made of maize meal. You will never hear anyone now still talking about umcuku. Our children do not know umcuku. There was also "igxogxa", tea brewed from used tea leaves or a teabag, and people will tell you what igxogxa is. Because we were not allowed to drink tea, we had to wait for the elders to finish drinking their tea and then we could brew it afterwards. This single tea bag could be kept going for a week to brew tea from.]
You don't know that, so I want to tell you that. I-Sassa eKhayelitsha ine-ofisi enye kwaye isebenzisa amaholo. Ngamanye amaxesha amaholo akalulingenanga uluntu lwaseKhayelitsha, kuba luninzi. [In Khayelitsha, Sassa has only one office and it also uses community halls. Sometimes the community halls are not big enough for the community of Khayelitsha, because it is a large community.]
I want to remind them that those laws - the Group Areas Act ...
... yiyo le ibangela le migca mide ibuzwa nguKopane. [Uwelewele.] Yiyo loo nto kukho imigca emide eKhayelitsha. Kungenxa yokuba saya kulahlwa emalandalahla yi-Group Areas Act. Namhlanje abayazi into yokuba ... (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)
[... are responsible for the long queues that hon Kopane is asking about. [Interjections.] That is why there are long queues in Khayelitsha. It is because we were placed far away by the Group Areas Act. Today they do not know that ...]
Madam Chairperson, a point of order please.
Kwekhu, ndiza kugqiba nini Nkosi yam ngaba bantu? [Ooh, my God when will I finish if these people keep disturbing me like this?]
Madam Chairperson, a point of order please.
Madam Tshwete, can you take your seat please?
Madam Chairperson, I listened carefully to the interpreting while the member was talking, and she referred to member Kopane in terms of apartheid laws. [Interjections.] Can I please ask her to retract that statement?
Will you please be quiet? We didn't hear anything about apartheid laws. In fact, I don't see why you are bringing it up as a point of order, because there were apartheid laws. Thank you.
Madam Chairperson, if you want me to explain, it had nothing to do with our member Kopane. I did listen to the interpreting. You may not have heard it, but I heard the remark in the interpreting.
Hon member, that is just an opinion. Thank you. Can you please continue? You have two minutes ...
Madam Chairperson ...
Hon Tshwete, you have two minutes to round up your speech.
Madam Chairperson, on a point of order please. It's not a point of opinion - there are facts. We are all entitled to our opinions, but we are not all entitled to our own facts. Can I please ask that you check the Hansard afterwards, so that we get an exact recording of what she said?
No, that is not a point of order.
On a point of order, Madam Chair: I think there is a vast difference between Boqwana and Kopane. So, it was never Kopane, and Kopane could have responded for herself because she understands African languages. Thank you.
Can you continue, hon Tshwete?
Ndinemizuzu emine ngoba imizuzu yam emibini imoshiwe apha ngaba bantu. [I've got four minutes, because my two minutes have been misused by these people here.]
I'll tell you when your time is up.
Into endiyaziyo kukuba ikomiti ye-Sassa yadibana nathi amatyeli amaninzi. Kumba wemigca emide, bathi baza kuzama ukwenzela abantu amadinga ukuze kungabikho migca. [What I know is that the Sassa board met with us many times. Regarding long queues, they have said they will try to arrange appointments with the people in order to reduce them.]
But there is something they do not know, that our people, even if the office opens at 5:00, will wake up at 5:00 and go and wait at the offices. They won't wait for 8:00. I still have my mother, who is getting a pension. I have a car ...
... kodwa umama uza kuthi uza kundilibalisa ngemoto yakho, ndiyavuka mna ekuseni ndiyahamba mntanam ngebhasi. [... but my mother will say, "you will delay me with your car, I'm waking up in the morning and I will take a bus, my child."]
So, that's how old people are - they would rather sleep there and wait for 8:00.
I would like the DA to go to the stall. There's a Sassa stall outside the Old Assembly; you'll get all the answers there. I went there before I came here. Those people were saying that some of the people who go there are people who are not beneficiaries per se, but ...
... bayaya kuba banqatyelwe yimisebenzi, umntu athi ndiza kuya kufolela; ndiza kuya kuhlala phaya ekuseni. [... they go because they are unemployed; a person will say I will queue for you, I will go and sit there in the morning.]
But, you'll wonder why, when you are looking at them on TV, you find that these people are young. These people have organised, oops, sorry, the DA ... [Laughter.] ... has organised these people. On TV there were people there who had new blankets. My chairperson even said, "These blankets are new." They took the media there so that it would look like there was a queue. We were looking at them and seeing that these people were young and the blankets they had were new. Ndathi sisiketshi silungiselelwe unyulo. [I said it was just a drama produced for the elections.]
I want to say to you that when you are canvassing for elections, you should please tell the people that the reason why we don't have roads and we don't have houses is because ... [Interjections.] ... of you. So, we don't mind your criticising us, but do it constructively. Don't do what you are doing, because the hon Kopane is always present in our committees and she has all the answers from Sassa. Today there is not one question or answer that she has! These people are really surprising. [Laughter.]
Xa ndigqiba,... [Uwelewele.] ndicela uMphathiswa wam uBathabile ukuba asincede. Kusekho iindawo ezisahluphekayo phaya emaphandleni. Mphathiswa, ndicela, ukuba uzame ukujonga, ingakumbi kwela cala laseMpuma Koloni, mhlawumbi naKwaZulu-Natal. Kusekho iindawo afuneka kuzo uSassa, ngoko ke makanikwe imali eyongezelelekileyo. Andinakuphika naba bantu bandikhumbuza eliya yeza kwakusithiwa ngubulala zonke loomakhulu elalibulal' iincukuthu. Bafana nelaa yeza lingubulala zonke. Uza nale nto uthi iza kunceda, bayigxeke. Ubeke le, ubeke uSassa, noba ungamsusa uSassa ubeke enye abazi kuyifuna, akukhonto bayifunayo ... (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)
[In conclusion ... [Interjections.] I want to plead with my hon Minister Bathabile to help us. In the rural areas there are areas that are still in the throes of poverty. I plead with you, hon Minister, to pay attention. Especially to the Eastern Cape, and perhaps KwaZulu-Natal; there are still places where Sassa is needed. Therefore, the budget allocation must be increased. I can't concern myself with these people, who remind me of the insecticide that was used by our grandmothers to kill bedbugs. They are the same as that pesticide. You introduce this and think it will help, and they criticise it. You introduce this, you introduce Sassa, even if you can remove Sassa and introduce something else they will reject it. They will accept nothing ...]
Madam Chairperson ...
Hon Tshwete, your time has expired. [Applause.]
At last.
Hon, what is her name?
I support the ANC Budget Vote. [Applause.]
Hon Dreyer, it is up to the Presiding Officer to remind the person when the time has expired. It's not your job to tell me when the time is up. [Interjections.]
Chairperson, can I ask a question?
Point of order.
Can you please sit down?
Point of order.
I call upon the hon Minister to reply.
Point of order, Chairperson.
Yes, hon Kilian?
Chairperson, I just want to remind you that we are all working according to a schedule with minutes allocated. Now, you said that there were two minutes left ... [Interjections.]
Will you please be quiet so I can hear the speaker?
We have calculated the time that you allowed, and it was three and a half minutes. [Interjections.]
Will you please be quiet so I can hear?
We do not mind the leniency if it is meted out to all parties equally. But, it is important that we stick to the time allocations, and we would like to ask you to please ...
I agree with hon Kilian, but we do give extra time when there have been disruptions. Thank you very much. Hon Minister, you may reply.
Chairperson, before I move on, let me acknowledge some of the people who have been invited here, like the ambassadors on substance abuse and those of the NGOs that were able to come here; such as the South African Older Persons' Forum; the Black Sash; Access; the National Association of Child Care Workers, NACCW; Ilitha Labantu; the Solomon Mahlangu Freedom College Trust, Somafco; and UN representatives.
We have also invited friends of the late veteran of our struggle, Babu Oscar Mpetha. We are happy they are here with us to come and witness part of the work that we are doing to try to improve the quality of the lives of our people. [Applause.]
We also have here today the National Development Agency, the lecturers and students from the Huguenot College, which offers Social Work, and the SA Council for Social Service Professions; I thought we should mention them.
That's the college you want to close down! [Interjections.]
Quickly, I don't want to be part of mudslinging. I don't want to be part of mudslinging, so please, Chairperson ... [Interjections.]
This is not a dialogue. [Interjections.] This is not a dialogue. Please continue, hon Minister.
Is it not allowed to make interjections? [Interjections.]
I would like to thank all members for their contributions and want to say that I am shocked at what elections can do, because last year we had a very good debate but all of a sudden it has turned into something that I can't comprehend.
As far as the internal audit is concerned, I think I agree with you, Chairperson. We have been meeting with the office of the Auditor-General and we are trying to ensure that we nurture the SA Social Security Agency, Sassa, because it has taken us time to get where we are.
I think what is being said here about the issue of the strategic plan is not true. The strategic plan is not the same and maybe the member should go back and look into it. In fact, this year the strategic plan has incorporated the outcomes set out in the government's new approach to the work.
While policies have by and large remained unchanged, our strategies and approach to the work have graduated from being outputs to outcomes, so I think there should be a closer look at this and also at the issue of the disclaimer. We have explained this to the committee. When we went to present it to the committee, all the members of the committee said that they did not have any questions.
Maybe we need to say that what is important is that we come from a difficult past. People want to wear blinkers and don't want to acknowledge the mistakes of the past. I prefer those who have acknowledged that and have decided to join the ANC. It is their right to do so; it is their democratic right. I am happy that they are no longer wearing blinkers. It is true ...
So it is better to ... [Interjections.]
Some of the people here feel very intimidated when we talk about the past. It is a fact. They have gained from what happened in the past. We cannot run away from that.
HON MEMBERS: Yes!
I want to say that previously there were many regions of Sassa, and we have moved one step forward. That we now have a national office and not many, many offices is a success.
Secondly, the grant is no longer being awarded in a choosy way. Grants are no longer being given to whites on a monthly basis and then to blacks after a month or at alternate times. It has changed altogether ... [Applause.] ... and there are more people who have come onto the system. It is a fact. You cannot run away from that. We have also moved to high standards of accounting - we have moved to accrual accounting. It is no longer on a cash basis, which was used conveniently by the apartheid government because it was an easy way of stealing lots and lots of money.
People want to talk about a few blacks that are gaining out of black economic empowerment. The main question that remains is: who owns property? Who owns the economy of the country? That is a bigger debate. We are not going to fight about little sums of money and we are not going to wear blinkers and write about and attack people every day when we know that the means of ownership still remains with a few. That is a fact. That is why, when something is given to a black person, people shout "Corruption!" Today our people are poor because of the previous system.
Hon Gcume, we have been on the ground. We have been to Msinga, we have been to Kanyamazane, and we have been to the Western Cape. But we want to say that it is easy for some of us to come and talk here, while some of the issues remain hidden. It's not said here that most of the NGOs in the Western Cape are no longer getting funds. The NGO we visited with the President got funding immediately after the visit of the President, and people have been quiet about that! [Applause.] Advice centres that work more especially with black communities have been closed. People are not talking about those things. [Interjections.] I don't understand words, but we appreciate the fact that you have raised this. We have a generator as a response to the concern in Lusikisiki that you raised. Also, privacy issues are very important and we agree with you.
Another issue that has been a bone of contention is that of our creating dependency. Once again I would like to say that this is solidarity with the poor and with vulnerable groups; it is not a permanent feature. We are a nation in transition. If you could look at the people who are getting grants, it is more often children, and we have said that it is important for us to ensure that we create a proper base for our children so that they can have a better future.
Also, people are saying that we are moving towards being a welfare state. I don't think so, because we aspire to being a developmental state and when you are a developmental state, you intervene when there is a crisis. It is not the first time in the world that we have had a problem or an economic crisis. In big countries, like Germany, there was an intervention after the Great Depression. It is not the first time. During this economic crisis big economies like Spain and Portugal have intervened and even the US has intervened. Have we said anything about that? Is that the creation of dependency? I think we must not be short-sighted and try politicking here, because that is not going to help us. [Interjections.]
Another thing that we would like to raise is the issue of the suspension of the CFO. We don't need to speak in tongues - if we say we want to fight corruption, we must say so. If the ANC government takes action, we must not shout and say things must be done properly, because that is what we are trying to do. We are trying to ensure that we don't tolerate management inefficiencies and mismanagement.
Then, on the issue of NGO funding, when the Free State matter came up we were already looking into reviewing financial awards. And the case in regard to the NGOs was in the Free State only, not throughout the country, so it is not true that we are governed by the courts. We are going to continue working in all the provinces to ensure that we roll out the Integrated Community Registration Outreach Programme, Icrop, so as to ensure that people in the deep rural areas have access to social assistance.
We are also working closely with the Department of Public Works so as to ensure that we have enough office space, and we have agreed that this is a problem.
We have said that we have increased the amount of the scholarship, because funds have gone up. What we are trying to do is to ensure that we have Social Work students who are going to ensure that they improve the quality of life of the people.
And then, concerning the prevention of fraud, we have also reported on the systems that we are trying to introduce, and we already have funding for those systems. Lastly, Chairperson, let me quickly say that the introduction of comprehensive social security is going to ensure that we have a compulsory retirement fund. We need to ensure that this is done speedily and that we publish a consolidated document upon which everyone will have a chance to comment.
And then, in conclusion, I wish express my gratitude to Deputy Minister Ntuli for her continued support and counsel and the MECs for ...
... ngokweseka abasinike khona ngokuthi babe yingxenye yeMinmec. Sibonga uMqondisi-Jikelele nabo bonke abasebenzi boMnyango wezokuThuthukiswa koMphakathi, NDA, Sassa ... [... the support given to us by being part of Minmec. We thank the Director-General and all the staff of the Department of Social Development Sassa ...]
... and the role, the outstanding role, that has been played by the acting CEO of Sassa. I think we need to acknowledge the role he has played in ensuring that Sassa gets organised. Thank you.
Debate concluded.
The Committee rose at 16.19.